T O P

AITA for getting a single mother fired for her racism?

AITA for getting a single mother fired for her racism?

dungareemcgee

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nuggetburger420

NTA. She got what she fucking deserved.


abbles1er

Exactly. Anyone that’s capable of racially abusing a child whilst feeling no genuine remorse should absolutely never be in a teaching position. She’s lashing out at the consequences of her actions and the people that held her accountable, she’s not going to learn from this. NTA


saufcheung

What’s worse is she’s creating a monster in her kid.


trigazer1

What's really sad that she's blaming Op, her son and not herself


thecapitalg

Pretty typical for racists, no self reflection. Only scapegoating.


Darktwistedlady

Classic behaviour of emotionally immature adults: no self reflection, inability to sincerely apologise, always blaming others for their own mistakes, and generally anything bad that happens to them must be someone else's fault. Edited wording mistake.


theatrewhore

Terrible people always do. “You got me in trouble”. No. You got yourself in trouble. Live with it


BUTTeredWhiteBread

As terrible as it is to say, might be for the best if he's taken away.


ScarletPimprnel

I agree. I think racism should be classified as child abuse. It does great harm. Nobody is born racist.


bambi_46

Just wanted to add that in the UK, a child being exposed to racist behaviour or being brought up with hate filled ideology is actually a safeguarding concern and taken very seriously. It comes under ACE's- adverse childhood experiences, which is a type of abuse so this child will almost certainly receive some sort of help to undo the damage his mother has started.


ScarletPimprnel

That is fantastic to hear and I'm so pleased to have this information, thank you! We need to normalize that in the States, but we've got quite a ways to go yet.


bambi_46

No worries! It's still relatively new over here but it's definitely a step in the right direction!


thepurplehedgehog

You’re absolutely right. Having to reprogram yourself from the racism you were brought up in is no fun for anyone. Why in the world would anyone want to teach kids how to hate people?


lovemosquito

especially at that important young age where you are learning how to cooperate with others. Things that will affect how your relationships go for the rest of your life...


abbles1er

People are understandably (for the most part) quick to forgive children for their actions, but the hateful and racist rhetoric that she’s instilling upon her son will not only hurt those around him when he becomes an adult, but it also has the potential to ruin his life too. She’s not only raising her son to think lesser of others, but she’s encouraging him to act upon it.


Superior91

Also, just a small little thing. The teacher telling OP's son that he couldn't play football for the English team cause he isn't English? HAS SHE EVEN SEEN WHAT LINE UP THE ENGLISH HAVE? The English football team is about as racially diverse as they get.


Shiny_Agumon

I mean in the eyes of some fans they are only English if they're winning, otherwise they get called all kinds of nasty stuff.


lefrench75

Yup, this mentality is so prevalent. Lukaku: "When I score I am Belgian, when I don’t I am of Congolese descent." Benzema: "When we win I am French, when we lose I am the son of an Algerian." Özil: "When we win I am German, when we lose I am an immigrant."


Whyysoseriousss

Those aren't fans, they are winner supporters. Probably support a different club each year depending on the standing. Disgusting behaviour from the so called "fans". They forget the players they made remarks to after the final are the same players that got them into the final.


ThrowRaScienceGirl

Totally right. It was disgusting to see some comments after the euro final. Those poor boys! They gave the best of them but sometimes we have to lose.


NatashaVorster

Don’t you dare feel sorry for her, don’t even think it. She played stupid games and won stupid prizes. If she treated your child like that, think how many others there were. My god if someone even as much as just breathed the first sentence at my son I would ruin them, and not feel a single bit of remorse! She is teaching evil, to her son and more importantly to other kids. You’re not born with hate, he’s taught. I’m a single parent and I know the way I live and the choices I make affect my son, she should have thought about that. NTA and well done to you for protecting your son. May he never feel hurt like that again, poor boy. I wish you nothing but the best Edit to add ~ thank you for the awards, they are my first. Remember spread love and not hate, have a great day


Vaalzhin

Add to the fact she was lying about it to her boss too in the meeting, so she knew what she was doing was wrong but didn't care as long as she thought she could get away with it. NTA


kiwi-potatoes

I don’t feel sorry for her, I feel sorry for her kid. And this’ll likely make him even more racist, because he won’t be told he’s in the gutter because his mum is a racist idiot, but that “a dirty brown Indian” stole his mummy’s job.


hardcoredore

She's probably lying to her about Child Services trying to take her son away. I SERIOUSLY DOUBT, Child Services would be involved in the situation THAT QUICKLY. She's just trying to tug on OP's heart-strings, so that she'll change her mind with regards to references & her getting another teaching job. 🙄


Toxicair

That's a good point on how all the other kids were exposed to her behaviors. Since she was seen as a teaching figure, some of them might've normalized her behavior. I think the whole class needs a debriefing of anti racism messaging and I hope the teacher isn't just hushed away like nothing happened


shadowspeare455

I'm not religious but nema to that


Hopes-and-Lies

nemgnikcufa


Transxistor

Nema?


shadowspeare455

Read it backwards


Gracillar

Dahm right ! Her hatred and disgusting attitude caused this mess. **Karma is a bitch, good riddance**. NTA OP, in fact I am so proud of you protecting your son and other children from her venomous, toxic and racist remarks. She definitely got what she deserved.


Independent-Ninja-65

100% this, got what she deserved. I'm British and a high school teacher and genuinely disgusts me that this kind of stuff still happens anywhere let alone here. A lot of kids come into class saying things like "my dad says you all need to go back to your own country" (obviously toned this down for posting on here) and other crap like that. You punish the behaviour, try to educate why those comments are hurtful and have no place in school or society but then check with the parents and they confirm that is what they believe and how dare their child be punished for expressing their views. Honestly can't believe this is still a view point. I'm white and I struggle a lot with hearing this bs so I cannot fathom how difficult, saddening and scary it must be to face this daily.


Smart-Guess1941

NTA- reading this made my BLOOD BOIL. She got exactly what she deserved. How dare she treat your child like that or any child for that matter. I am at a complete loss to understand how she even thought she could get away with this. She won’t have her kids taken away, she is just trying to guilt trip you. There are PLENTY of sectors in the UK hiring people right now. She’s just pissed that she’s lost a cushy number. As a mixed race person whose mum is Indian and Dad is white, I remember the comments when I was a child about my skin colour etc and I wish your son all the love and luck in the world ❤️


JYQE

I agree. I went through the exact same treatment in British girls schools and I am still traumatized as an adult. I do not feel sorry for her at all. Let her learn consequences. And she won’t starve. Some other job will pick her up.


LimitlessMegan

There’s always fast food and retail.


aSeaPersonByNight

Amen. You don’t wanna be fired? Don’t racially abuse children. My children are whiter than milk toast, and I would be angry that they were being taught racism like that in the classroom… I can’t even IMAGINE the blinding rage I would feel if my children were POC and the TARGET of it. She can work somewhere where she isn’t molding young minds (or hopefully any).


SchemingCrow

I absolutely fucking despise any teacher who is racist Normally i would say someone can have their own beliefs if it does not harm anyone But for teachers hell no


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RamblingManUK

Totally agree. Anyone who abuses, racially or otherwise, a child in their care should never be allowed to work in a school again.


LimitlessMegan

Do not allow her in another class room. You can’t stop her son from terrorizing other kids but you can stop her. NTA


Heliovice69

sweet sweet justice.


Rafira

NTA - she made her bed with her racist comments and she will reap the rewards from it. It's unfortunate about the boy, but hopefully they will learn something from this. But still, I'm a bit suspicious about the details in this story. A voice recorder? Fired on the spot? The principal asking what feedback you wanted to give people contacting the principal for a reference check? These details in particular seem a bit fantastical.


Eerawai

Yeah, the principal coming to her for advice on a reference was a bit “and then everybody clapped” for me. Edit: Lots of people claiming that this could very well have happened, or has happened to them. If I’m wrong, then I’m wrong. Either way, if it’s a true story, obviously Op is NTA.


hangingdirtylaundry

No kidding. Save the last sentence, this story reads like someone who is firmly resolved in their thinking and feelings on the matter (rightfully so). Why would you even question if you're the asshole in a scenario like this?


u_e_s_i

Because the ex-teacher’s been guilt-tripping her


hangingdirtylaundry

But so what? Of course someone like that would do that. They're a nasty racist who abuses children. Abuses children. Not just an ordinary, ignorant racist. She was put in charge of caring for children and she abuses them. Does this sound like the type of person who suddenly learns a lesson or does it sound like a person who will blame someone else for the repercussions they're facing? Who cares what people like this think?! Who cares if she can never get hired as a teacher again? Good! This is a core personality issue, this isn't changing overnight. If ever. Protect the children, they're practically defenseless and it's your job as a parent. * I should probably clearly state that the arguments in making are the fallacies I see in this story and reasons I think it's just made up. Write better stories OP.


LegalFreak

To add to this - the racist is supposedly a private school teacher who is poor? Now I'm not saying she would be rolling in it but my understanding is private school teachers are pretty well paid. I'm not buying it. Edit: I also think it's unlikely a teacher would be fired on the spot. They might be suspended on the spot but disciplinary procedures would still require to be followed.


PaddyCow

>I also think it's unlikely a teacher would be fired on the spot. And not just that. The principal later contacted op and said he has people asking him for a reference and it's up to op what he will say and apparently he's just going to tell prospective employers not to hire her? It doesn't happen like that. While I unfortunately believe there are racist teachers out there, I do not believe this story.


DSQ

Maybe but in the UK former employers can’t straight up stay why you got fired only if you had grievances against you - this incident would count as a grievance. So I felt maybe that’s his way of getting round it? I think the “fried on the spot” and the “principle” rather than headmaster is more sus.


GreyWhitePurple

I can believe there may be the occasional British school the calls the headteacher the principal (maybe private schools are different?) but yeah the firing on the spot doesn't sound likely.


indignant-loris

Nobody in the UK gets fired on the spot. Nobody in the UK says "principal" - it's headmaster. I'm calling fake.


Narrow-Maximum

Actually I went to a bog standard UK comprehensive. Part way through they changed the last part of the name from school to "High" and instead of a Head Teacher we then had a Principal. The same school is now an "Academy" and still has a Principal.


animalwitch

I've witnessed people being fired on the spot, it absolutely is something that happens in the UK.


u_e_s_i

He probably asked because he wasn’t sure what to put. She’s left the school now and the spectrum of what he could say ranges from things like ‘she was unprofessional in the classroom but she is good teacher’ to ‘she racially abused and bullied a pupil and we suggest you stay away from her’. The former would give her a second chance and if OP wanted to left her off now that she’s not teaching her son and hopefully learnt her leason she could’ve chosen it. The latter will likely end her career (deservedly so imo). Either way given her and her son’s circumstances it’s quite a big decision and understandably the principal would like to hear OP’s opinion, partly because if he’s too light-handed it’ll reflect badly on him and if he’s too heavy-handed to the extent that even OP thinks he was harsh he’d seem like a bit of an AH


indignant-loris

Do you really think that the headmaster - not "principal" - of a private school is consulting the parent of a child about references for a teacher? He's talking to an employment lawyer, the board, maybe. But not OP.


Nylonknot

Teacher here: exactly right. That’s not how this works. I assumed this was fake at the second paragraph. None of it rings true to me. It’s missing so many details and language that a teacher might include and goes on and on about details that aren’t important. Also, I’m the white mom of a biracial son who was heavily bullied at a private school for having a Muslim dad and browner skin. In that regard, the details OP included don’t ring true either.


thereforthecomments

That’s still an unusual thing to put on a parent. He made the decision to fire the teacher.


Swedette17

Not necessarily. When a student sexually harassed me, the principal gave me the choice of punishment too, and what to say for job references. Some principals wants to go above and beyond to make the victim know they were heard


lunchbox3

So in the posher private schools in the UK it really is a bit of an old school club - there is gossip and stories and lots of behind doors conversations. Kids get transferred between schools for things that would get them put in exclusion schools in the state system, teachers get a “second chance” at a new school even for having affair with students. It doesn’t strike me as strange that he would ask her how she wants it handled - because people may trace it back to her. There are other things that are a bit odd though - we would typically say headmaster / master not principle, her son would be in year 2 not 2nd etc. But it’s not unheard of to have different naming systems etc.


jlswizzle

I thought the same thing. In what world would a principal ask a parent for a recommendation on what reference he should give for a former teacher? I call bullsh*t.


Generic_as_jeff

I would assume that the principal is principal across the whole school range and to my understanding, OP is a teacher in the high school meaning she is an employee, as well as a parent


waffles_are_yummy

I'm quite suspicious too. I'm a teacher and have worked in both the state and private sector. Teachers don't get fired on the spot in the UK although they might be suspended before being fired. The headteacher, if this is true, is also very unprofessional talking about references. It is true that a previous head is always contacted because of safeguarding to check if the teacher has had an allegations against them. And the use of the word 'principal' as in a private school it is typically headmistress or headmaster in the UK. I'm also wondering where this took place because huge areas of England are very diverse. I am wondering about the likelihood of only one mixed race child in a class. I've moved the country quite a bit and this has never been my experience within a classroom but just because I have never experienced it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.


excel_pager_03

If you're able to question the severity of the racism in this story and you live in the UK then you need to be aware of exactly how privileged your experience has been this far. The book Native by Akala touches on racism in the UK schooling system and is a fantastic read. I doubt you'd read that book and then doubt this story.


ReceptionPuzzled1579

I’m Black and I went to a private boarding school for A Levels and went through quite a few racist incidents from staff and students. And I very much doubt this story. From my experience, the racism from Staff is never as overt as OP is making it out to be, it’s more subtle. Because they need to protect themselves/their jobs, and a lot of private schools in England depend on overseas fees so they cannot be seen to be racist. Also their subtlety has the added benefit of potentially gaslighting you into thinking it’s not actual racism. Whilst a student may call you the N word or other slur, staff are more likely to say something like - not everyone can deal with the English weather, maybe it wasn’t such a good idea to come to England - which is a nice way to tell you to ‘go back to where you come from’. Or saying to me who suffers from a genetic health condition - saying apparently jokingly - ‘good thing you came to England where you can take advantage of our NHS’ - which is crazy because though my heritage is African, I am a British citizen. And yes such schools tend to use Headmistress/Headmaster, not Principal.


Smoochiesublime

Yep british asian here, gonna say the same thing. I smell BS. Edit: in the UK, most racist ppl call all brown people Pakis. Doesn't matter whether they're Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshis etc.


JYQE

Hmm, that’s true. I was so caught up in my emotions, I didn’t think of that.


SchnozzleNozzle

Ah yes, the classic yell from across the street as I walked to primary school in the 90's: "go home Paki".


Sir-HP23

I think you’re right. Any teacher being so very obviously racist in front of a whole class would be an idiot. Just a couple of other students backing up the OP son would likely get the teacher suspended. I also think any headteacher would be a fool to fire someone on the spot. There would be a process that needs to be gone through otherwise they leave themselves open to an unfair dismissal, just because the headteacher did follow the established procedure. I just don’t believe a headteacher asking a parent what to write in s reference, that’s absurd. A reference is entirely down to the headteacher. And finally yes I’ve never heard the term principal used in a British school.


alwayssunnyinclapham

Agreed. I’m mixed race and was privately educated in the UK. This story doesn’t ring true to me in anyway. Not doubting the racism - I experienced it as well - but it was casual and passive. Firing the teacher on the spot is also incredibly unlikely. The headmaster would likely end the meeting there and then separately speak to the teacher, suspending them, formalising the investigation and then firing them. We cannot just fire people on the spot, especially a teacher who will most likely be in a union. They have to follow SOME level of process. Also never, ever heard of anyone using the term ‘principal’ in the private school system. Always headmaster or headmistress. I wonder why people make up stories like this? Edit: changed ‘racist’ to ‘race’. Oofttt one of my worst autocorrects.


Fabflab98

Yeah I read the story and immediately realised it was either completely fake or heavily exaggerated. Surprised so many Redditors believed it. Maybe it’s because most of the commentators are American or younger? Idk. Discussing an outgoing employees job prospects and references is a breach of gdpr and I don’t see the headteacher of a private school making such a rookie and bizarre error


freeeeels

> I’m mixed racist Might wanna edit your autocorrect dude


alwayssunnyinclapham

Ooft that was a bad one. Thanks for the heads up!


TopTopTopcina

I agree. Racist people usually have a “logical reason” for their views that is not necessarily racism. Like when people say “I don’t hate Black Panther because there are black people in it, I just think it’s a bad movie” and it’s impossible to tell what they’re really thinking. The teacher saying things like “you’re brown so you’re dirty, look at my son, he’s white because he showers every day” is just so stupid and blunt.


JustMeLurkingAround-

They didn't question the racism with one word. Only the surrounding facts.


Stoat__King

100% agree about the use of 'principal' in the UK. It made me instantly suspicious of the whole post.


Fi72

Also, let's face it, racists in the UK don't use the word "Indian" when hurling abuse at a South Asian person.


BeardedBaldMan

It sounds like complete and utter bullshit in relation to the terminology used, the failure to follow UK employment law, the reference comments etc.


TipsyMagpie

I don’t doubt the racist parts of the story. My family is white, but some have more olive skin than others. My nephew has the most gorgeous olive skin tone, he tans really easily, but he’s still obviously white, with sandy hair and green-blue eyes. He’s been having terrible trouble at school recently with people saying racist stuff to him. He’s straight-up been called an f-ing n-word multiple times, and he’s just a tanned white person! God help the kids at the school that aren’t white, I dread to think what they must go through. School isn’t remotely interested unfortunately.


Ambitious-Badger-573

In the Scottish Borders, I managed to be the only ethnic minority in my primary school of 200, and one of only two in my high school of 1500. Rural bits of the UK are often like that. I got my fair share of bullying, but was grateful to have good teachers. Not trying to do you down, you can only speak from your experience, but it totally rings true of the schools I went to.


evil_urges

Planting the recording device in the 7 year old's tie was where it fell apart for me.


sorchajuniper

Yeah I had the same feeling. It feels like a made-up story. If it isn't, OP is absolutely NTA, but especially the references thing stood out to me as extremely unlikely and highly unprofessional if true.


smoothpigeon2

I think it was the "do you even shower?" comment for me that did it. Any grown adult is not going to insinuate that brown skin = not showering, no matter how racist they are. Calling them "dirty" is one thing, but the shower comment just seems far fetched.


LucreziaBorgia1480

I'm a Filipino Australian and have a mole in the middle of my forehead. During the aftermath of 9/11 I had one or two adults on the street ask me, a 7 year old little girl, if I was an Indian and if I was a terrorist. Still sticks with me to this day because why would you even say that to a child..... So to me, the brown skin comment isn't so far fetched....I've heard worse insinuated at my current place of employment which has hired a lot of the Indian international students who got stuck in Australia due to Covid.


fromthelandofdjel

It sounds like an non Brit trying to write a British AITA...


rahimmoore26

Exactly. It honestly amazes me how many people believed this story. The thing about lying is, don’t say something that can easily be proven. OP, $20 if you post the recordings.


Cally_G94

Yeah, this is straight up BS. Racism is disgusting but i feel OP jumped the shark in the end


iolaus79

I'm also a little unsure at the teacher having her child in her class. Every time I've come across a teacher having a child in the school (quite common) they have all made sure they didn't teach that class and would change normal year groups to ensure that didn't happen. My daughter ended up with the same teacher for yr 5 and 6 because her friend in the same class's mother usually taught year 6, so for that year the standard yr 5 teacher swapped with her. By senior school there are usually multiple teachers per subject so they just put them with the other class


glassfury

Yep reads very fake and outlandish. Even if Britain definitely still has a package of problems with racism, it's difficult to imagine this kind of behaviour continuing in a classroom in front of students over a sustained period.


radialomens

OP’s like “I just heard about this fascinating thing called RACISM. I wonder if *I* could write a story about that!”


Boner_Deluxe

Yeah this story doesn't pass the sniff test. "AITA for standing up to flagrant racism aimed at a child?" Did you really expect anyone to say yes?


Maximoose-777

There is no place for racism and if that part is true then NTA but I agree that the rest of the post seems made up or completely exaggerated, racists in the UK call everyone that looks Asian pakis, not Indian, brown are anything else. Also we call principals, head teachers.


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squeoj

Completely agree. As a parent of a child in a British school lots of the vocabulary used in this post is completely incorrect, showing no knowledge of the British school system.


StrawberryGlassOnion

My British friend speaks similarly and she most certainly is from the UK and still lives there. What did OP say that was so wrong?


squeoj

Examples include a 7 year old being in ‘second year’. A 7 year old would be in Year 2 which is actually the third year (schools start with Reception followed by Y1 then Y2). Might seem subtle but it’s a massive sign that this is false. As others have pointed out British private schools rarely have a principal. A British teacher would never be fired on the spot and a school leader would never share information about references. Even with a friend.


Flashbunny

Yeah, the years are wrong. And we don't have principals, we have headmasters/headmistresses.


TheHezzer

I went to a private school in the UK, and we had a principal of each division (infants, juniors, boys seniors, girls seniors, and 6th form), then an overall headmaster. My brother went to a different private school and had the same thing, so the UK definitely has principals.


SweetCarrotLeader

We have principals in Northern Ireland.


Pristine_Juice

We do in England as well.


NotOnABreak

The “second year” comment bugged me too, but OP mentions this being an international school. I went to British international schools all my life and we most certainly had principals.


Daxter2212

UK here and I work in education- none of this happened.


North_Concentrate_70

Agreed. This didn't happen. Absolutely didn't. Not sure what OP's aim is but the story and characters are works of fiction


IndisputableMooring

The one that does it for me is ‘kindergarten’ never heard that in British vernacular


Explanation-mountain

Reading this reminded me of something I read recently after the racist abuse of English footballers when it turned out it was global. >Experts in the field of online abuse point to the problem of fake accounts, while an online threat and intelligence specialist said there is a potential risk of a strategic, targeted campaign designed to damage the United Kingdom's social cohesion and reputation. https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/english-football-faces-up-global-nature-online-hate-2021-07-13/


thepurplehedgehog

> strategic, targeted campaign designed to damage the United Kingdom's social cohesion Yep, this is exactly what it is. Divide and conquer, yet again.


bipnoodooshup

Seriously, this bullshit is straight from that startepack post from yesterday. "AITA because I helped defeat racism!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?"


gortonanonymous

I hate all of these fucking AITA posts that are just like “Hey, I know I’m not an asshole, I just wanted to flaunt how good of a person I am” Like “AITA for standing up to racism???” Is that even a question?


kikkiokok

“Look at my son, he showers everyday and is so clean!” I can’t believe someone thinks this is believable dialogue, aside from all the other ridiculous statements.


rahimmoore26

Right? Like OP made the same type of insults for the kid and teacher. Kids are fucking stupid, so I would totally believe a kid said those things but not the teacher.


tastygluecakes

This reeks of BS. Post recordings and I will match the $20 donation. Feel free to redact names for privacy reasob


bitedamn

Op seems to be doubling down on the authenticity of the story. Don't see that often with people making up stories on this subreddit.


rahimmoore26

You also don’t see people post on burner accounts and tryin intentionally reveal your kid and husbands first and last name


evil_urges

Of all the stories that didn't happen, this is one of them


jenkinsound

Yes! I was thinking the same thing. My biggest annoyance is a lack of understanding of how people actually get fired in the UK, no one gets fired on the spot, especially not in that position. I call bullshit too.


apricotsandolives

Depending on whether the teacher was in their probationary period they could definitely be fired on the spot (this can last up to 6 months here in the UK and is usual for salaried workers). However after the probation period ends there would have to be further steps the employer would have to follow, such as; grievances and disciplinary hearings- however in this instance as there’s evidence of racial abuse against a child and considering the employees position in a school around minors, maybe there is a situation where they can just terminate the employee (and IMO, rightly so) as they couldn’t claim unfair dismissal if the employee has admitted it’s them in the recording in the meeting in front of parent. However, I will say “principal” threw me for a loop because in UK we tend to call them “headteachers”, but this could just be cultural differences/private school terminology and I still believe something like this could happen in the UK, unfortunately racism has been a huge issue over here 😔 Edit: I forgot to vote, obviously NTA


lipolopo

No, you can’t just fire a teacher on the spot, even in probation. even for a private school there are reams of process. Source - ran HR in a private school


Xarxsis

> Depending on whether the teacher was in their probationary period they could definitely be fired on the spot (this can last up to 6 months here in the UK and is usual for salaried workers). Whilst you might be able to be terminated without notice during probation, that isnt going to happen in the room with the accusing parent, its going to happen privately with a recordkeeper at the bare minimum.


1029edjas

I wonder what the motivation for this shit is? OP’s probably American based on their language and belief that you can fire people ‘on the spot’ in normal first world countries. If I had to guess based on the final reference their trying to get in on the anti England bandwagon after the euros? If so they’re a bit late.


ReceptionPuzzled1579

I don’t normally mind fake posts but at least try and make it a tad realistic. I mean…why would the Principal need your advice on how to respond to emails. The son being kicked out because his mother was fired. The recording in the tie. Even the supposed racist comments the teacher made sound just a tad over the top for a private school teacher. They tend to be more subtle with their racism in my experience.


fairyclairy0703

The son would have been kicked out because he most likely would have been on some sort of grant to pay for the school fees, as it is a private school. Since his mum was fired they will not be entitled to that grant anymore therefore he couldn't attend that school anymore. The grant would be some sort of discount because his mum worked there as a teacher. I know this would be the case as I went to a private school and the teachers kids got massive discounts for their school fees.


Dabbles-In-Irony

I agree with the fact that this sounds made up or overly exaggerated at very least, however, if it is real, then the son could have been expelled for his own racist comments, not just kicked out because his mother was fired.


pupertbobbin

NTA obviously for this scenario but I don't believe the story. We tend to have head teachers rather than principals and it would be very unusual for a teacher to be sacked on the spot. I don't understand why they would be asking your opinion on references. That could be problematic for them legally and I don't understand why she might lose her child.


alwayssunnyinclapham

Agreed. The private school system in the UK uses headmaster and headmistress. Also, firing on the spot seems incredibly unlikely even with the evidence. Immediate suspension, followed by formal investigation copying the recordings etc, and then firing seems more likely. Firing someone, especially in such a unionised profession, doesn’t seem likely. Source: I was privately educated from 8-16 in the UK.


_ewan_

It's essentially impossible to sack someone on the spot from a job like that. You can suspend them and start a disciplinary process with the aim of sacking them, but you can't just go "You're fired" and that be the end of it.


Demetre4757

Hypothetically NTA. But. Absolutely YTA for posting a story that I would bet my left eyelid is not true.


the_empty_remains

NTA. Her behavior is totally unacceptable in a teacher. Not only was she harming your son but she was showing other kids that racism is ok. She should not be a teacher ever again.


Osito509

It's a fabrication. It's a made-up story.


lukob96

And then the whole bus clapped


JazzStarSnoopDogg

So many idiots ITT actually believing this shit. It reads like an 11 year old wrote it.


Bluevisser

That's what I definitely noticed. Her phrasing and her vocabulary all come across as being written at a lower level than one would expect from someone fit to teach older children. It would perhaps make sense if English was her second language but she states she was born in the UK.


APawneeInstitution

Principal? Teacher being fired on the spot? Is this some weird private school in the UK that somehow bypasses worker's rights clauses in their contracts, and the teacher was begging instead of going to the teacher's union? If it smells fishy, maybe it's salmon


Full_Grapefruit_2896

Cod more like, very British fish.


sorchajuniper

NTA. However, this story doesn't feel real. I for sure believe racism like this exists, but there's no way that the principle should be discussing what sort of reference to give with OP or telling her the conversations he's been having with other schools. If he is, that's incredibly unprofessional and he should not be doing that.


DistastefulSideboob_

Let's see shall we: 1) A private school teacher, a middle class well paying job in the UK, is apparently on the breadline. 2) She is allowed to teach her own son in the class despite the obvious conflict of interest. 3) While racism is alive and well in the UK, I find it hard to believe that a teacher, who is apparently a hair's breath away from being destitute and also relies on sending her own child to school, would be so stupid as to make such overt racist comments. Subtle, snide jabs? Maybe. "You're brown because you don't shower?" Come on. 4) While we're at it, the whole class apparently being against racism, which is odd in itself-at that young an age they'd probably feel compelled to go with what their authority figure is enforcing. And if they are against racism, then why have they not reported it to their own parents? 5) As if straight out of a Bond movie, you decide to wire tap your kid to get evidence which is absurd. For one thing, you already have 30 witnesses who as you say are predominantly on your son's side, so why not go directly to the head instead of subjecting your son to more humiliation? Not to mention that there's no way a recorder shoved into a bag would get a recording that's that clear. 6) When talking to the "Principal" (a lot of people have picked up on you not using "headteacher", personally I'm inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt here- there are some more modern Multi Academy Trusts in the UK that have adopted that terminology) he fired her on the spot with no further investigation? Despite most teachers being unionised? Even if she was dismissed for gross misconduct, there would still be some sort of administrative process and she'd be entitled to take it to tribunal. 7) The principal has left it up to you on what to put on her reference? For one thing, gross misconduct would be on her employment record, but as a reference giver you can't just write that they were terrible, although you can decline to give one at all. And again, it is entirely unprofessional to give you any say in what her reference would be anyway. 2/10 for this obvious rage bait. With the comment about the England football team, I imagine that was the source of inspiration for this creative writing excersise, and it was a shameful moment for England. However while the comments made were abhorrent, they were being made on Twitter where users are granted a modicum of anonymity. Not even the most venomous, Tommy Robinson-supporting tw*t would be so stupid as to say those comments in the workplace; the only job where you could expect to get away with that sort of racism is if you're an MP. The fact is the most insidious institutionalised racism in the UK is incredibly subtle, hence why it is so difficult to combat. Racism in the UK is so subtle that a recent government report attempted to claim that institutional racism *doesn't even exist.* UK racism is snide passive aggressive comments; it's feeling uncomfortable hiring someone who's name you can't pronounce; it's the fact that BAME workers take up a disproportionate amount of front-line NHS jobs, putting them at higher covid mortality rates, whilst being almost completely absent from senior positions. Granted there is still street harassment, as well as police stop and search that targets POC but again, even that is frequently rug swept. I'm not sure what your motive was for writing this, but I think it's dangerous to present a narrative that racists are always obvious cartoon villains, one unreasonable idiot in a sea of upstanding Not Racist people, rather than a system designed to protect white supremacy whilst always maintaining plausible deniability.


Fabflab98

It’s blowing my mind that so many commentators are responding to this post as if it’s legitimate. I’m blaming it on the fact that it’s an entertaining post where the ‘bad guy’ gets their arse kicked so it’s a fun read and most commentators have zero knowledge on U.K. employment culture.


DistastefulSideboob_

Yeah I think it is satisfying calling out obvious villains, but I think it can be harmful because it gets to a point where more subtle but harmful microaggressions are ignored and rug swept because "real racism" is overt and obvious. And yeah, I doubt this was written by someone in the UK, definitely not an adult either.


WWYDFA_Klondike_Bar

YTA for making up such an unrealistic story.


Nik_Kin

First comment I've seen calling out this BS. This reads like an American pretending to be from the UK. You cannot get 'fired on the spot' in the UK, nor can you weigh in on whether an ex employee is hired elsewhere, those kinds of references are not done.


skillertheeyechild

This isn’t real. If it is NTA but no way is this real. Also does your son have a different surname to both of his parents as you don’t choose someone’s last name, usually when you marry you take your husbands and then your child would get that.


fairyclairy0703

Not everyone takes the husbands surname. She could have kept her surname which she would have given her son.


Osito509

Why did she say "an Indian name" then. Why not "my surname"? It's also not the usual arrangement. Most kids in the UK take their father's surname regardless of whether the mother takes the father's surname or not.


emmainthealps

Yes I found the naming of the child and the way that was worded to be quite strange also.


Osito509

There's lots of things that don't hang together. Like why would a racist use Indian as a derogatory when we all know racists in the UK use "Paki" for anyone from that region, regardless of whether they're from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh or wherever. It's all so much fiction Sometimes I think these are stories for women's "Real Life Stories' magazines and they just publish them here first so we can pick holes in what they got wrong.


DanOfIron

Can you post the recordings? Just seems a little suspicious a teacher would be openly racist in front of 30+ witnesses.


North_Concentrate_70

They can't post the recordings because this didn't happen


prettypickledgeez

The amount of people believing this fake ass bullshit is astounding. NTA simply because you managed to successfully troll a bunch of cringe Redditors who get off on passing judgement without for a second considering the veracity of the story. Good show.


ChineseChaiTea

It's completely fabricated OP hasn't even responded, the whole shower remark, was pretty far fetched, then it just spiraled out of control at that point on. You've got non white British people even doubting this crazy ass story.


purityh

YTA For not even trying to make this believable.


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buckyluckykentucky

Fake and you should be ashamed for this race baiting bullshit.


Dean88gr

She didn't get fired because of some petty reason, she verbally abused a kid, repeatedly.


Phenomenomix

She didn’t get fired, because she’s imaginary.


mulligansohare

Fired from St. Imagination Prep


Osito509

In the poster's imagination


eridan84

Today on: THINGS THAT NEVER HAPPENED.


justme7601

This has got to be a shit post. At the very least, there is no way a teacher is allowed to have her own kid in her class, and sending your kid to school with multiple recorders? I doubt it. Also, there is no way a boss would fire a subordinate on the spot, in the presence of someone else, without having had the opportunity to carry out a proper investigation.


Aniu0324

NTA she shouldn't be working with kids period. Yea she was all apologetic once she realised she was caught. She probably thought she'd never be caught, don't feel bad you're doing other kids and parents a favour. Making sure a racist can't teach kids


curious_seahorse1

Exactly this. She was in a position to influence young vulnerable minds. She should never be allowed to teach ever again. Racism should be made a reason to be struck off the teaching register for life, no question, just like someone with sex offenses. It boggles the mind that we still allow it to be "at someone's discretion". These are our kids we're trusting in these vile people's hands!!


Kirianni

This story is not true. Recording someone here without consent isn't legal. You cannot fire someone on the spot, there is a process. There is a defamation law against giving a bad reference that would lead to someone not being hired. None of this is true. YTA for making this up.


Strooperman

There are no principles in the UK, they are called head teachers, people cannot be fired on the spot here, asking for your input before giving a reference is illegal. I think this is so, so fake. NTA on the minuscule chance it’s real.


DistastefulSideboob_

Some more modern multi academy trusts have started using the title "principal" but I agree this is so so fake. Racism is alive and well in the UK but literally no one is stupid enough to say it this overtly in front of 30 witnesses in the workplace. And not even going into apparently wire tapping their kid to get evidence 🙄


Phenomenal941

This post stinks of shitposting and trolling.


Osito509

Of all the fictionalised stories I have read on here this is the most bullshitty. It doesn't sound as if it was written by someone from the UK, terminology is all wrong. Just need everyone to clap at the end and it would be the perfect "am I the asshole for virtuously and heroically standing up to this racist poor single mother slutwitch?"


kegluneq

YTA. This reads like a made up post, which I’m willing to bet it most likely is.


stargazeypie

NTA for saying racism is bad, but this story is Swiss cheese. Using "fuming as I write this" to cover for any inconsistencies that come from not being in the UK or actually knowing enough about it to write plausible fiction doesn't work given that it's supposedly been so long that the headteacher is now calling you to ask for advice about references. So weeks, if not months. Surely you've had enough time to cool off at least a little bit, given that the issue has apparently been so robustly dealt with.


stargazeypie

Also, given your "play for England" focus, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that your writing prompt was the disgusting behaviour of some real life racist arseholes in relation to the Euros and the current line up of the England football team.


Specialist_Value9675

I call BS and challenge the OP to prove me wrong - OP must be really bored! 🤷🏿‍♀️


SapSacPrime

This is possibly the most fake sounding AITA I have ever read, and I'm glad it is because it's not pleasant.


Lilbignin

And then everyone clapped as you walked out. Get out of here with these lies


Randomiss_13

NTA. She reaped what she sowed. If she and her son go to another school this will continue and those children and parents may not have the opportunity to get them removed as you did. There should be zero tolerance for abusive racists. Maybe her son being away from her would give him the chance he needs to learn that racism is disgusting. Though I’m doubtful. I’m sorry your son suffered this. I’m sorry you had to as well.


Comfortable-Tree2130

I just can't believe this story, it's too over the top


Blobfish_Blues

I question the realness of this because a) s teacher being so openly racist would have been picked up before and I doubt in all her time there she's never had another student of colour b) despite your recordings I believe an investigation is required before a teacher can be formally let go. Just to cover all bases in the event of a lawsuit, the school would need to know the recordings etc. haven't been tampered with. If this is real, I'm sorry your son went through that but something about this doesn't add up.


Clay_2000lbs

Fake


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idiotinbcn

We absolutely never say ‘principal’ in the U.K. Tape recorder in the bag that was able to record voices loud and clear enough ? Headmistress asking her about references? This is all very suspect. But stranger things have happened!


StarieeyedJ

As someone also from the UK, it is illegal to give a negative reference. All they can say is “would not hire again” they couldn’t divulge anything and especially not tell them to not hire her. At age 7 he would go to a primary school not a “high school” which also isn’t the right terminology. And I don’t know if you meant age 13 or year 13, which also makes no sense, schools don’t particularly work like that. That’s just the few things that make me believe this story isn’t true.


Plus-Kaleidoscope900

The Nancy Drew listening device in the tie that can record for seemingly endless amounts of time with perfect clarity was what got me.


Pivinne

YTA we don’t have at will employment in the uk. She wasn’t fired on the spot because this didn’t happen. And they’re called headmasters/headmistresses we don’t have principles


JanetSnakeholy

Institutional racism is an issue in the UK. YTA for making up this D*ily M*il style fodder and not even doing a good job of it. You're clearly not a married woman or you would've said "my husband took my last name and so obviously kid has it too" not we gave our kid an Indian last name? Unless you were called X and for whatever reason made up or chose a random Indian Surname Y for him? The recording thing? Illegal in the UK. Teaching your own child, frowned upon in most schools. 7 year olds being in second year? That's Yr 2 or whatever the class name would be. You would know, being a Brit, that it's primary or prep. Why is the imaginary Mike son apparently going to be taken away from Imaginary racist? Because this woman hadn't been reported to the police for it or the imaginary harassment of you. If she's poor she's going to be on benefits, as a single mum she'll have access to UC and Social Services are so overwhelmed atm they're not going to take away a child from a parent for losing their job during a pandemic. Instead of trolling for this, why not put some energy into actually reading up on racism in the UK. Rah to this madness.


spaffedupthewall

I really hate to do this but there is absolutely no way this is real. The vocab, the sentences, none of this is how people actually talk. I'm not denying the racism by the way, but the way it is formulated. This just reeks of being fake. YTA.


Able-Bar-8448

Principle? You mean Headmaster? Something about this seems awfully off, the way it was written. What county was this in? Post the recordings and I'll believe you.


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r7j89

Definitely NTA, racism has consequences, she 100% deserved to lose her job. You've saved other kids from having to deal with her racism in future too. Good on you!


ssurkus

There’s no way this is a true story so YTA


Stoat__King

NTA. If her life is ruined, she did that to herself. I would guess that, from the principal's point of view, you have done the school a big favour. Also, good for you for standing up for your son.


LegInternational7164

NTA. but you knew this.


1teacherthrowaway

I call bullshit. It would not be professional for the principal to comment about this matter to this woman’s future choice of employment and would open him up to litigation, especially if he asked somebody from the aggrieved party what to do. This sounds like fiction.


ignoranceandapathy42

>I am a British >kindergarten >principal Fake as fuck.


XX_JMO_XX

NTA. If she participated in racism against one of her students, she should not be allowed to teach children again. Actions and choices have consequences, and she needs to take responsibility.


G8RTOAD

NTA Her racism caused her to lose her job so all new schools need to be aware of this abhorrent behaviour of hers.


Livid_Appeal_8048

If you made this up about 6 years ago you might have got an award for original content but it is played out now. The rich ethnic person encounters racism from the poor white, right leaning type. Gtfo


ladygraysketches

It's illegal for companies in the uk to give her a bad reference, even for schools, so this sounds unlikely. Declining to provide a reference speaks more, especially from a school


nolechica

NTA, She should never teach again.


JustKiddiNg13

NTA Is it hard to be a good person and role model? No it isn't. Her and her son deserve to be taught a tough lesson and really her son deserves a better chance at life than what she can provide and I don't just mean money wise.


furlongperfortnight

NTA. Teachers should know better, but since Brexit happened there has been a shift in social norms. I do think that your story has been a little embellished. For one, the principal would never ask you about the references for the lady who has been sacked. First, this is a serious beach of data protection. Secondly you are not allowed to give a bad reference. Thirdly firing on the spot? That's extremely rare, unless she worked though an agency. Where I work we had people fighting, stealing, and smashing £1M worth of equipment sacked only after three weeks of paid suspension.


Rich_27-

NTA If the story is real


mulligansohare

Hmm, something about this seems fishy. I don't know this woman's circumstances but she's a teacher at a prep school that gets her son's fees paid for by the school as a result of working there? She doesn't sound poor to me, single mum or not. Your husband's first instinct was to gather evidence rather than you going directly to the principal, who you yourself say is a friend. You basically made your son wear a wire by putting a recording device in his tie. How small was said device? It had to be hidden inconspicuously within his tie, so I'd say it must have been tiny, meaning it was expensive. Did you sew it into his tie, bearing in mind he's probably doing some running around at play time? Why would the principal ask you how to respond to emails about employment? NTA for getting an imaginary person fired in an imaginary situation. Edit: The edits make this story seem infinitely more made up. The principal never said that and even if they did they wouldn't have said it with OP in the room, close friend or not.


RageTiger

NTA As a victim of bullying, I cannot stand for any kind of torment or bullying. Teachers like her need to lose her teach credentials and forever barred from doing anything around children. She was actively teaching her child and others how to hate based simply of being different. Do not feel bad that karma finally kicked that horrible woman right in the head. Play stupid games and win stupid prizes.