T O P

Why is LA County re-imposing mask mandate? COVID positivity rate increased by 700% in one month

Why is LA County re-imposing mask mandate? COVID positivity rate increased by 700% in one month

jjspacecat10

Vaccine access in LA county has been accessible for months now. You get paid to get your shot, and Uber will drive you to and from the site for free. Vaccination sites are all over the place. The remaining unvaccinated population has made the choice and probably will never get vaccinated. I am interested whether they will follow the new mask mandate though.


vineyardmike

Spoiler alert... They won't


fordette

Even bigger spoiler, they never did. I live in LA and mask compliance varied by neighborhood since April 2020. Some places were near 100% compliant, others did their “2 weeks to flatten the curve” duty and stopped.


vineyardmike

Good way to determine where you want to live... One neighborhood has nice neighbors the other one your neighbors will watch you get hit by a car and not bother calling an ambulance


fordette

I mean. What kind of car? 😛


Cowicide

Via article: >Dr. Christina Ghaly, director of the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services, says unvaccinated people now account for all COVID-19 hospitalizations at county-run hospitals. >"To date, we have not had a patient admitted to a DHS hospital who has been fully vaccinated with either the J&J, Pfizer or Moderna vaccine," Dr. Ghaly said Tuesday. "Every single patient that we've admitted for COVID has been not yet fully vaccinated." What happens inside the brains of those who refuse to get vaccinated even after reading this. http://i.imgur.com/MFdTOaq.jpg


Crypt0JAy

Nah


gaelorian

Do you think the mask mandate is to just annoy the unvaccinated into compliance?


ipainhpr

It's to punish the entire class because some of the kids weren't listening to the teacher.


vilebubbles

No one is trying to punish you. It's a piece of fabric. It's a public health measure. We are nowhere near the amount we need vaccinated and there are many people who can't get vaxxed, or are still extremely high risk for covid even with the vaccine. If you want to party and see friends and family and do whatever, that's totally fine. But you are arguing against reducing the spread of Covid and innocent people who have to go to the grocery store or doctors office or court getting covid simply because you're tired of masks. We are all tired of masks. But it is only in public indoor spaces and it is far better than dying of covid.


UniWheel

Will Uber pick up my 9 year old relative and take them to get vaccinated? Nope, because that's not allowed. Hence they're the "holdout" in an otherwise vaccinated extended family


jjspacecat10

Uber is just an example of the level of vaccine access in LA county. To clarify, I'm referring to anti-vaxxers, which account for the majority of the eligible, but unvaccinated population. Besides that, there is news about vaccines for kids available in the winter that your 9 yo would be able to get. Best of luck to them


spazzcat

Based on what I am seeing the "what about the children" argument is not going to hold up any more. I live in an area where mask were close to 100% when there was mandates for everyone. I was at Target yesterday, there was 40 plus kids in the store. I saw two, two! with masks on and they looked to be in their teen ages and most likely vax. Edit: I should add I saw at least 10 adults with masks on.


UniWheel

If there's one thing this disease has proven, it's that the validity of an argument has little influence on many people's willingness to consider it. But then there are people who do think. All adults in my family are vaccinated (and we're in an area with great vaccination rates) but brother in law who'd stopped masking under a a false impression that the vaccines block the virus from entering cells has now on a better understanding that they merely prime the immune system to fight decided to put his mask back on and progressed to worrying about sister going to in-person office in the fall, because of the risk that a personally mild breakthrough case could come home to their underage kids. We are seeing an uptick in state cases despite our vax numbers. Most of that is Delta getting to vaccine holdouts, but there have been breakthrough deaths too.


wastingvaluelesstime

Have they tried requiring a vaccine card to enter bars and live music events? Because thay would work better than an unenforced mask mandate.


JFreader

Just let them burn at this point.


cczz0019

Leg broken - runs in cast - breaks leg again - puts on new cast and continues to run.


lupuscapabilis

Fantastic analogy


BornShook

no not really


emily12587

Yes a zombie apocalypse is a better analogy


BornShook

Leg breaks, is mostly healed. Still wears cast and uses crutches for another 6 months because "there's still a chance that the leg could break again." After 'just 6 months to heal my leg', he realizes that it's safer to just never use legs ever again, because they can become broken. Dude you broke your leg 2 years ago. Take off the damn cast. Your leg is fine.


smk3509

>Leg broken - runs in cast - breaks leg again - puts on new cast and continues to run. Leg breaks- wears uncomfortable cast- leg heals- neighbor breaks leg- neighbor refuses to wear cast- you put on uncomfortable cast even though your leg isn't broken


crankyexpress

What’s the hospitalization and death rate for vaccinated individuals?


[deleted]

Extraordinarily low. 213 hospitalized out of 4.7 million vaccinated


realestatethecat

So basically the vaccine is working.


forherlight

Except we don't know if vaccinated folks who get COVID can get long-term problems after. ​ Edit: nowhere in my post did it say I'm against vaccines. Get vaccinated, duh. But also wear masks, too. Do both and do better.


SexyMonad

Definitely true. But we can tell the vaccine is working to reduce spread. Since the vaccine directly reduces your risk of catching Covid and reduced spread further decreases the risk, you’ll have fewer long term effects indirectly… regardless of any direct reduction of that risk. All that to say… _**vaccine good**_.


Cloujus2011

Via the data coming out of Israel, the percentage of the population that’s vaccinated directly correlates which the percentage of new positive COVID cases. E.G. 18-30 years old. 77% Vaccinated, 18-30 years old - 75% of new COVID cases are vaccinated individuals. The vaccine does not lessen your chance of catching the disease. It lessens your chance of severe disease.


SexyMonad

Can you provide a reference? I can’t find it.


okawei

They can't cause it's BS


Cloujus2011

There’s a direct link to the Israeli health department in the article. Figured the article sums it up exactly the way I just summed it up for you in that “bs” post I made. The data in the article is now behind the current data. Go eat. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/israel-50-of-delta-variant-cases-vaccinated-severe-2021-6%3famp


okawei

Israel has only around 100 cases per day, not enough data to judge your efficacy based on that. The trials had to wait until tens of thousands of people were infected to be able to make any meaningful conclusions. > Levy told the state broadcaster Kan Bet that about 40% to 50% of new cases appeared to be people who had been vaccinated, Haaretz reported. > He did not appear to specify a time frame for the new cases. > It wasn't clear whether those people had been fully or partially vaccinated. >On Monday, Levy said that a third of the new daily cases were people who had been vaccinated. There's just so much ambiguity here I don't even know how you could make the assessment that the population of vaxxed vs unvaxed are getting infected at the same rates. Like I said, BS. On top of that, 1/3rd of new cases to ~60% vaxxed, the numbers aren't "lining up" exactly with the vaccinated population.


aeon314159

u/AmputatorBot


AmputatorBot

It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but Google's AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Fully cached AMP pages (like the one you shared), are [especially problematic](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). You might want to visit **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-50-of-delta-variant-cases-vaccinated-severe-2021-6](https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-50-of-delta-variant-cases-vaccinated-severe-2021-6)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon me with u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)^( | **Summoned by a** )[^(**good human here!**)](https://reddit.com/r/CoronavirusUS/comments/omf6in/why_is_la_county_reimposing_mask_mandate_covid/h5ucdc9/?context=3)


urmumqueefing

There isn't any. Pandemic panic [is a matter of identity for these people now](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/05/liberals-covid-19-science-denial-lockdown/618780/)


SexyMonad

That article was written before the Delta variant was a big deal. Back then we were making tremendous progress. But now we are seeing case increases, and in some states it is a clear third or second biggest wave to date. That should be pretty damn terrifying given that nearly all of the transmission is unvaccinated people. They have options… including masking and social distancing if FDA approval is truly their baseline. But they refuse. And unfortunately, some of us vaccinated people get hit. When 160 million people are fully vaccinated, a 95% rate of effectiveness still leaves 8 million susceptible. Oh, and all the kids. So while that article made a lot of sense in early May—and I was singing the same song at the time—things have changed, and refusal to vaccinate is killing us. Again.


urmumqueefing

https://abc7.com/unvaccinated-covid19-los-angeles-county-hospitalizations/10887037/ Not a single person hospitalized in an LA County hospital for covid was fully vaccinated.


urmumqueefing

> The vaccine does not lessen your chance of catching the disease. Why are you spreading antivaxxer misinformation?


JFreader

Wrong. Your math is off.


thomki

No one is saying vaccine bad.


SexyMonad

Plenty are. But I wasn’t attempting to accuse.


SulkyShulk

I wish.


Sumertime9

I invite you to Facebook.


thomki

This isnt facebook


sophware

I'm worried about those long-term problems. At the same time, it poorly serves that worry and others to present this worry as an "except," instead of an "and," if presenting it at all in this context. The vaccines are working exceptionally well, and the issues that remain are many. One of the most significant issues is people's less-than-positive embracing of the vaccines. The vaccines are an amazing tool for us to have. There is overwhelming evidence that it is simple and not simplistic to focus on how powerful and successful they are. As a vaccinated person (both J&J and Pfizer) who has significant risk-factors for the long-term issues of COVID-19, the quickest and most powerful path to health for me is emphasizing the hell out of how well the vaccines are working.


realestatethecat

First off, there is no proof that’s happening and wouldn’t we kind of know that by now (at least, short term long term symptoms). I’m sure if there was long covid type stuff happening the news would be all over that. But also covid is going to be endemic. So if you are predisposed to long term effects even after a vaccine unfortunately that’s just the situation you were given and there’s no avoiding it


urmumqueefing

Correct. https://abc7.com/unvaccinated-covid19-los-angeles-county-hospitalizations/10887037/ Not a single person in LA County's hospitals with covid was vaccinated.


JMaboard

So it’s basically natural selection at work then.


urmumqueefing

Correct.


JMaboard

If the majority of the adults that are unvaccinated die won’t we reach herd immunity?


realestatethecat

Most won’t die but they will get natural immunity which is probably as good as a J&J shot lol


[deleted]

[удалено]


bottlecapsule

Delta IFR is 0.08% for 20-40 y/o age bracket in the UK. So basically, not very relevant.


JMaboard

Most of the unvaccinated people I've seen are horribly obese, so to them it's pretty deadly.


[deleted]

[удалено]


kthibo

Except that young children still don’t have access to the vaccine.


JMaboard

Technically it's still natural selection although a bit harsh.


NextBigThing8481

We know that can’t be true based on the numbers in Massachusetts which has over 300 hospitalizations and 80 deaths in fully vaxxed people since 5/1 It’s more likely LA county isn’t properly asking, testing or documenting vaccine status


MyFriendMadison

No no...wrong. Those numbers represents vaccinated people who have died or been hospitalized since January, throughout the entire vaccine rollout. Your rhetoric is dangerously uninformed. Please take better care to understand what you're actually talking about before you spread misinformation to others. >As of July 10, 4,450 vaccinated people in Massachusetts had tested positive for COVID-19 since the rollout began this past winter, according to the state’s Department of Public Health. >That ‘s just over 0.1 percent — or one in a thousand — of the 4,195,844 people in Massachusetts who were fully vaccinated at the time. >Of that tiny faction, the overwhelming majority of cases weren’t severe. >DPH officials say that 303 — or 6.8 percent — of the breakthrough infections involved hospitalization and a total of 79 vaccinated individuals in Massachusetts have died. https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2021/07/15/massachusetts-covid-breakthrough-infections-uptick/


UniWheel

The more interesting question is if vaccinated adults can bring it home to ineligible kids. Theres now plenty of evidence that the idea that kids get a free pass belongs on the scrap heap of history.


nygdan

Really not a question anymore. Spread of delta is happening so fast there's no way vaccinated people aren't a good part of that spread.


UniWheel

Given how pathetic vaccination rates are, it's not clear to me how much of a role cases in the vaccinated play in spread, and I'm yet to see any specific findings on that. But I take the possibility seriously and it influences my decision to generally remain masked when entering public indoor spaces, even after a strong second dose reaction that made it clear I was injected with something.


BreakingGaia

From what I read, vaccinated people not wearing masks are helping to spread the delta variant. I do not know how true or what the rates are, but as a mom of an unvaccinated kid, I've decided to err on the side of caution and keep masking up.


UniWheel

It's a possibility I take seriously for the same reason of proximity to and effective "podding" with young relatives. Also kind of sobered by the recent recording of 78 vaccinated deaths in my state. Is that a low probability? Yes. But it's a reminder that biology is damned sneaky.


realestatethecat

My guess is that the age of these or health conditions have to be factored in. Remember, testing positive at death makes you a covid death, doesn’t mean that’s why you died necessarily


realestatethecat

My guess is that the age of these or health conditions have to be factored in. Remember, testing positive at death makes you a covid death, doesn’t mean that’s why you died necessarily


jeanettesey

It’s spreading much more quickly in areas with low vaccination rates.


nygdan

We know the vaccinated can get and transmit it. It's spreading like wildfire. Why think its only spreading through the unvaccinated who are buffered between the vaccinated??


UniWheel

In terms of overall cases, spread by the vaccinated is likely overwhelmingly insignificant compared to that by the unvaccinated. But in terms of penetrating social structures built around the immunocompromised and vaccine ineligible children, transmission by the vaccinated could be key. Especially, close family members why don't mask around each other.


bottlecapsule

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57830617 British flagship, 100% vaccination rates. Guess what, still having an outbreak on the ship.


UniWheel

Thats certainly alarming, the article doesn't quite say the vaccinated sailors are catching it from one another, though that is clearly something to be worried about. One of the things you do on a world tour on a warship in normal times is visit foreign ports and let your guys go and drink in the local bars. Not sure how much of that is happening but it seems like the kind of source that would "start" an issue. Key question would be for how long they keep finding new cases, if beyond plausible aftermath of shore exposure, that would be the key evidence. Similarly if contact tracing shows a sailor who wasn't ashore got sick after assignment near one who was and tested positive, that's pretty indicative, too. It does see like an almost ideal situation to study these questions, though undoubtably sucks for those caught up in it. And vaccinated -> vaccinated would be really bad news as that's stacking unlikely * mild * unlikely, where's I was worrying about a vaccinated person transmitting to an unvaccinated family member.


bottlecapsule

The other piece of the puzzle is that delta, unlike previous variants, has sneezing as a symptom. So a vaccinated individual thinks it's allergies and doesn't know any better, but is actually transmitting it to others with every sneeze.


thomki

Water is wet. Whats the point of even saying this?


WaterIsWetBot

Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object.


davidshutter

Good bot


B0tRank

Thank you, davidshutter, for voting on WaterIsWetBot. This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/). *** ^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)


ahhh-what-the-hell

I call a statewide lockdown in the next 30 days. If the California Government keeps doing this, they’ll get rid of anyone who hates California pretty quickly.


UniWheel

Another stay-at-home encouragement (we've never had a "lockdown") is certainly a possibility. I'd like to think it will actually happen if even slightly more warranted than at present - our track record has definitely been too little, too late, if this disease weren't as bumbling as it is we'd be even more screwed. But I fear that even in the "saner" areas political fatigue will lead to declaring the pandemic over, in denial of the evidence that it isn't.


Nodadbodhere

We had lockdown. Everything being closed is lockdown. Look, sorry you didn't get the roving patrols shooting people for going to the park and being outside and all, but if you can't do anything because everything you'd want to do is banned, that's lockdown.


UniWheel

There was never any point in time when everything was closed in the way you falsely or forgettingly alledge. We've now learned low density outdoor recreation probably isn't an issue. But the way we handled shopping with at best half-assed masking and a laundry list of things falsely deemed essential largely defeated the measures we took in a public health sense. We even kept flying planes around(!) People who were inspired by the weak orders to actually do it right on their own initiative benefitted. But public health, not so much.


Nodadbodhere

So I imagined museums and libraries were closed? I imagined zoos and aquariums were closed? I imagined gyms and restaurants were closed? I imagined beaches were closed? I am not going to pay attention to anything else you say because it is clear you are the one with the problems with honesty and ability to perceive reality.


UniWheel

You seem to be trying to invent a rather novel definition of "everything" being closed since your list is overwhelmingly dominated by highly optional amusements. The list of things that were NOT closed was actually quite long, you've just forgotten about that because you object to any inconvenience on priciple.


Nodadbodhere

And you seem to be trying to invent a rather novel definition of "never." And I don't think educational institutions like libraries and museums to be "optional amusements." But based on your unique definition of words and complete dishonesty I doubt education was a priority for you either.


[deleted]

I’m sure it’s possible but I’d be willing to bet good money they’d be asymptomatic or very very mild cases if at all


urstillatroll

[Described in detail neurological and psychiatric manifestations of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 \(SARS-CoV-2\) infection in children](https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210715/About-4-in-100-COVID-19-hospitalized-children-may-develop-neurological-complications-a-study-finds.aspx). [Neuroinflammation and Brain Development: Possible Risk Factors in COVID-19-Infected Children](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33530091/) [Neurological effects of COVID-19 in children A large multi-center, multi-national study identifies shared abnormalities in the brain and spine of children with SARS-CoV-2 infection.](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41591-021-00005-9)


[deleted]

All lack control groups. If you’re not comparing them to a non covid group you don’t know exactly what you’re looking at. And these studies were mainly looking at the most severe cases


urstillatroll

You know how how I know you are not an epidemiologist? You think control groups are applicable and necessary in studies of the effects of infections. That is not how disease studies work, that IS how studies work for the effects of treatments such as drugs work. I understand why you were confused, it is an easy mistake to make.


[deleted]

They’re called case-control studies numbnuts


equalsmcsq

Isn't it better to assume the worst and make drastic changes to at least *attempt* to protect children?


[deleted]

I mean I still don’t let my kids around anyone unvaccinated or indoors. I don’t know what else I can do. And yet people are arguing with me


UniWheel

And that's where you'd be wrong. Sure, at first it seems mild. What's being found are lingering, long term effects. This disease is bad news and not to be taken lightly, in anyone. To say that it's the perfect attack on an interconnected global society is to recognize the reality that evolution selects for what can utilize opportunity. (Though there have been short-term child deaths, too)


[deleted]

Long term effect studies on children are incredibly flawed


UniWheel

Moronic internet posts are notoriously uninformed. Enjoy you lala land, the rest of us will keep those we love safe.


[deleted]

Why did you come here looking for a fight. The methodology in long term studies is flawed because they lack control groups most of the time and rely on parental self-report. It’s difficult to draw conclusions that way. In fact there are some studies that show no significant difference in long symptoms when compared to kids who never had covid in the first place. Furthermore, many respiratory infections including some colds and flus can produce similar long term symptoms. I am not denying the existence of long covid, but it is premature to conclusively say that these effects are permanent. So instead of calling me a moron, why not have a civil conversation


thomki

Control groups are for drug studies not infectious disease studies


[deleted]

Wrong. Case control studies use controls


UniWheel

I came here to recognize reality, not for a fight. You picked that by denyng it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


BreakingGaia

Excuse me, but how long do you think covid 19 has been around for long-term studies? You do realize that the only data we have to go off of are exactly the kids getting sick as they're getting sick and monitoring after. Where exactly are they getting control groups when we can't even identify who has and hasn't had this virus at some point during it's early run. It's quite possible that kids picked it up and spread it early before we ever even knew about it and had antibodies to protect them from the initial waves and now their antibodies are gone and delta is spreading among them at summer camps. It's clear they are not spared from the delta variant.


[deleted]

You look at serological analysis. That’s 99 percent accurate


urstillatroll

You literally claimed studies are flawed and presented 0 evidence to back that claim up. That is the epitome of misinformation. If you are going to make that claim, show me something from scientists that backs that claim.


[deleted]

Here’s one that I’ve seen cited https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.23.21250375v1. It’s self report. Anything self report without control is going to be limited in its power. That’s research methodology 101. Many others follow this pattern.


sourcrude

Can you share some of this evidence?


futuremylar

Similar to the Israeli studies (pre delta, mainly the UK variant). 304 hospitalized out of just over 5 mil vaccinated.


jaiox

Thanks stupid anti vaxxer people


ckmluo

Could blame our educational system.


jaiox

yes true


tnmxoxo96

Why is that?


Aggravating_Damage47

Thanks anti-vaxxers appreciate it.


bak2skewl

no one cares anymore. beating a dead horse here


citytiger

Are hospitalizations skyrocketing? If the answer is no there is no reason for this. If their trying to reduce case numbers which don’t matter if the healthcare system isn’t overwhelmed then implementing mandatory masks will do nothing. Officials in the county should tell people to ignore the health board as this is not based in science. If I was head of of the county I’d fire them.


fatrunnerjr08

Resist the mandate


[deleted]

[удалено]


seagull392

Hey guess what? Maybe when the entire population is eligible for vaccines that will be true.


CPAlum_1

I’m certain this re-implementation of the mask mandate will reduce the number of infections in LA county far more than vaccines ever will. /s


UniWheel

Imagine if there were two tools you could use at the same time to fight the same problem.


lupuscapabilis

Unfortunately the tool they just brought out is the wrong tool. We’ve gotta hammer in some nails and LA is holding a wrench


UniWheel

Guess what: they need both, vacination needs to go up dramatically AND masks need to go back on in light of the present increase in transmissions.


Nodadbodhere

Yes, because punishment for the people that did what they were supposed to do is going to work so well. Get back to being good little serfs. Do what your masters tell you.


UniWheel

You have to stop thinking about it as punishment and start thinking about what is necessary for health.


Nodadbodhere

I already did what was necessary. I dealt with the lockdown bullshit of the past year. I got the goddamn vaccine. Where is my payoff? When do I get my life back without strings or asterisks? Without the ever present threat of government saying "nope, changed our mind, not for you" which this sub seems to celebrate now? I did my part already. I am done doing for other people. To take away from those who already did is punishment.


UniWheel

You're behaving like a two year old with this harping on "payoff" and "punishment" It's not the government changing the rules, it's the reality that having however many billion people packed together on a planet and travelling from place to place causes problems. We're probably going to see things like this continue to happen, because we've created a situation ripe for them and refuse to use BOTH of the key tools at hand to mitigate them. Life isn't fair. Grow up and deal with it.


Nodadbodhere

"Life isn't fair" can also be said for the unvaccinated who keep getting sick, by the way. Their problem at this point. At some point it needs to stop being my problem. But you go on ahead being a good obedient little boy and see how that works out for you.


UniWheel

It has nothing to do with "obedience" Until you start seeing the virus rather than the (more often too slow to respond) government as the enemy, you're just going to be a toddler in an adult body.


Nodadbodhere

Increase among the unvaccinated. They leave that part out because they need to scare people into going backwards on reopening. Masks again now. How long until officials start hankering for closures and stay-at-home orders again? They had their taste of absolute power and control over a terrified population and aren't ready to give it up.


urstillatroll

> Increase among the unvaccinated. The unvaccinated includes children under 12. We aren't just talking about dumbass adults who are anti-vax here.


cc882

Don’t forget those who actually can’t get vaccinated because of auto immune issues.


urstillatroll

Yes! My spouse has an auto immune issue, it was a tough decision whether or not to vaccinate and which vaccine to go with. The vaccine wasn't fun, it caused basically a month long migraine. But we had to weigh all the risks and make a decision.


itsmillertime512

I’m struggling with this bc of my autoimmune issues and have been researching tirelessly. Which one did he get?


Alocasia_Sanderiana

I live with someone who has RA and she had a good experience with Pfizer. Took her maybe a day or two after each to recover. She hasn't gotten an antibody test yet though so who knows if her medicines prevented a good response.


DeflatedDirigible

I have yet to hear of any doctor saying it is safer to get sick with Covid than take the vaccine. People I know claiming to have medical issues preventing them from getting the vaccine haven’t even consulted their doctors. If it is a serious issue then every disorder where it is safer to get Covid needs to be published and explained.


notoriousrdc

And people whose immune systems are compromised to the point that they don't produce antibodies in response to the vaccine.


Nodadbodhere

And how often are children actually even affected?


BreakingGaia

125 and 160 linked to summer camps with both kids and counselors infected. I'd say we actually reduced the number of infections by closing schools early on. It's possible that after kids who can't be vaccinated yet go back to school, we'll see more community spread.


Nodadbodhere

Again, how many actually ill vs. mere positive cases? There is a difference, even if we want to pretend there isn't. My daughter, for example, got it when she was 7 last December. And she had... Nothing. No fever. No loss of taste or smell. Nothing at all. We literally wouldn't have known without a test. I care about people getting sick, not a mere positive test, which is the wrong metric to track unless the plan is to scare.


BreakingGaia

Unfortunately, they don't give out people's information. These were two separate incidents at 2 separates summer camps. I care about my family getting sick and I also care whether or not we spread it in our community. I'd hate to be a catalyst in anyone's death so I remain vigilant so don't accidentally kill anyone.


aeon314159

In Minnesota over 50,000 children under 12 have been infected, a single digit few are hospitalized right now, with a couple in the ICU on life support. I think a little over a dozen have the post-COVID-19 inflammatory disorder, so obviously they're not in a good way. They are still doing research on children with the long haul presentation, but that has eclipsed a thousand. Looking only at <10 years of age, 3 children have died. On one hand, I'm glad it's only 3, but on the other hand, I can't begin to imagine the pain and loss of those three families. I know it's cliché to say, but no parent should have to bury their child.


wutthefvckjushapen

You're living in a fantasy world if you think "the officials" actually *want* to lock anything down. If we'd done it right the first time and people got their empty heads out of their asses we could've stopped the pandemic but there's always those selfish assholes who ruin it for everyone else. Grow the fuck up.


ckmluo

Couldn't have said it better.


Nodadbodhere

Then explain why LA County Public Health is doing it despite the CDC saying otherwise? It's because Barbara "Not a Real Doctor" Ferrer got her taste of relevance and power and isn't ready to give that up. The goalposts have been moved again. What government hath given (back) hath been taken away (again.) So let's see where this goes.


[deleted]

That’s 100% correct. I’m vaccinated and don’t intend on wearing a mask again.


seagull392

Cool, thanks for being a selfish vector who can infect my unvaccinated 10 year old with Delta.


[deleted]

Why isn’t your 10 year old wearing a mask?


19fourtywhatever

10 y old might be-Masks don’t protest you, they protect others


[deleted]

God, I hate that argument. Where is the science on that? How is the virus only able to pass through one way of a mask? The CDC says there is no reason for vaccinated people to wear a mask. Why don’t you trust the science?


19fourtywhatever

A quick search pulls up this, a soft "you are right". Wearing a mask can reduce the viral load at infection, which can be hugely beneficial in lessening the chances of extreme covid19 cases. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7393808/


fertthrowaway

Because the idea is that the air needs to contain less dispersed COVID. Here presumably a maskless person is the vector and freely spewing virus laden aerosols. Most masks are highly porous and does little to prevent smaller aerosols being inhaled. It prevents the aerosols from spreading as easily as far away from the vector and larger aerosols get caught by the mask as they come out the nose and mouth. Lowering viral load in space and time that others come in contact with is how the masks work. It is dramatically less effective if the infectious person is not wearing one. This is pretty well studied by now...people aren't making it up. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536


[deleted]

Tell that to the CDC who knows a lot more about it than you and your googled information


fertthrowaway

I read the "science" that CDC based their masking recommendations on. The only one concernimg transmission from vaccinated individuals was a Public Health England study showing that household transmission was only reduced 40% from vaccinated vs unvaccinated index cases, and this was when Alpha was prevalent, not Delta. Go read the details and citations on their website like I did if they are your Gods. And you apparently still don't understand how masks work. That was a brief and easily digestible review article (among many others) summarizing many studies in the Journal of the American Medical Association that explains it and I assume you didn't bother even reading three words from.


19fourtywhatever

first - I'm happy to be proven wrong. that would make me feel better. Please share peer reviewed journal articles and I would love to trust that science. second - I believe the idea is Person A wears a mask to stop droplets becoming aerosolized in the shared air. Less aerosol = less possibilities for becoming infected with virus droplets.


[deleted]

Peer reviewed journal articles?!?! lol stfu. Unvaccinated people can wear two masks then. Remember when that was a thing? Trust the CDC. Don’t be so anti science.


19fourtywhatever

lol, brah, I literally said "you're right" and posted a Peer Reviewed Scholarly Article showing you evidence. but sure buddy, I am anti-science. lol.


[deleted]

Don’t call me “brah”. Makes you sound like an idiot. I’m also flattered you are going through my comment history haha. Glad you think I’m so interesting.


seagull392

It's actually a pretty simple explanation: it's because of the proximity of the mouth and nose to the mask. Once the droplets are aerosolized, they disperse about the air, and then they can enter the mask through the places where it isn't sealed to the face (which with non-fitted masks, even N95 masks, is a lot of places). But, if the mask - even a cloth mask - is up against the nose and mask, it prevents a lot of the droplets from aerosolizing. So yes, wearing a mask is protective for oneself, compared to wearing nothing, but it's not as protective as being around other people wearing masks. There was a ton published on this at the beginning of the pandemic, a quick Google/google scholar search will explain. Edit: also, the CDC isn't following the science right now and it's dangerous. Check out the WHO. Or just read the papers directly, paying attention to delta transmission among those who are vaccinated. The CDC is highly politicized. People understood that under Trump, I don't get why they don't understand it's still true under Biden.


yourloudneighbor

Have an upvote on me, emo.


Diegobyte

This mask mandate won’t stick.


ChinaShill

Because children are disease vectors. Not to mention that people from Orange County and other red cities come to LA to spread the virus.