Working 9-To-5 Is An Antiquated Relic From The Past And Should Be Stopped Right Now
By - Arseling69
I work a 9-9 schedule managing a production line environment in the US. 45-60 hours a week. My cohorts working the same job/same company in Australia work 32-36 hours a week for the same pay/benefits. Holidays off, the whole 9. It’s horse shit. Their job satisfaction and work life balance are beyond what I’d ever get working in this country. And it’s not an office job so this shortened work week feels like a fairytale I’ll never get to experience.
Same friend. 4:15AM to 5:00PM (sometimes a little sooner, other times as late as 6:00) almost half of the weeks we work 6 days instead of 5. I manage a production line in the automotive industry in the USA…I’d love to get down to a 40 hr work week.
Yeah I work in a company where if you work in the US you need to log 8 hours a day but if you work in any other country you only need to log 7.5hrs a day. That’s a substantial amount of hours over a year that we work for free, basically. Americans are also famous for putting in mad free overtime because of the competition
Reddit.com is proof positive that most people can get their desk work done in a few hours and spend the rest of the day diddling their computers and phones.
In my last job, there were some days where I would sit at my desk all day doing nothing but read Reddit and watch YouTube. What a waste of time. I worked that boring job for 6 years…
I had a boring job but it allowed me to listen to books on my iPod, so I did my 30 and retired at 55.
You worked the exact same job for 30 years? How did that work? They just never had any staffing changes or talk of promotions?
US Postal Service. I tried management, it was a big headache for $1 more an hour, so I stayed in the trenches.
I was management at USPS while being a CCA/carrier for NO extra money…
Fuck. That. That job sucks. It pays okay but it sucks lmao
It happens quite often, especially in smaller companies that are relatively stable, meaning they don't see a whole lot of growth but they also don't struggle financially, at least in my experience. If you are working as say the only programmer at a small business there's not really anywhere to go except another company, they can't give you a different position, a few raises is all you can hope for.
I think working for the government also has the potential to work the same job for decades, normally that would be stupid because you could earn so much more if you change companies or go to the big guys and try to move up, but people take government jobs because of security, extra benefits and incredibly great retirement plans, at least that's how it is in my country.
I know plenty of guys who worked the same job for 20+ years, they're usually either not socially competent enough to move up, they don't care much about money or they are a bit lazy or maybe a better way to say it would be people who are either afraid or not motivated enough to make big career steps and network a lot to earn more.
I just got a city job. I get great benefits and it's unionized. It's boring bureaucratic paper pushing, but it's not hard and I don't hate it. And I get out at noon on fridays. I don't find fulfilment from my career, I'm not looking for growth. Just stabilty.
Just outta curiosity, where do you find your fulfillment? I’ve been finding myself struggling with this need to be fulfilled in my work life and I have such a hard time imagining myself being able to continue with a job that doesn’t provide that
I find fulfillment from my doggo and my hobbies. Some people are career driven. I'm not one of those people. I realized the standards I set for myself were too high and it was killing me. I came from a family of career driven people and I felt so much better when I realized it wasn't for me.
I’m slowly coming out of that myself. My father found fulfillment in working 6 days a week and I tried it for …far too long. I know being almost 30 is definitely not the end of the world but damn I wish I had partied more in my 20s
It’s definitely not too late to do that.
>I don't find fulfilment from my career,
This. My job is not my life's work. My job is the *means* to achieve my life's work.
Some of us have a great boss and co-workers, flexible hours, work we enjoy and adequate pay. Why leave? You could end up with more money but major regrets.
To add to that, some of us chose not to because we dont want to take on more stress. Life is stressful enough as it is. I've had the opportunity to move into upper management making quite a bit more money, but I chose not to due to the amount of stress I'd be taking on. I prefer to keep things as simple as I can.
Sometimes money just isnt worth it.
Genuine question, did you listen to audio books at work before ipods were a thing?
No I didn't listen to CDs. My books were bootleg audio from The Pirate Bay.
torrenting is a lost art. Im only 24 but i try to teach all my friends my age and younger about pirating because literally none of them even know what a zip file is
If you were getting paid it wasn't a waste of time IMO. I'd rather get paid for doing little work than get paid the same for busting my ass.
yeah. baffles me. im making peanuts working 10 hours non stop physical work sweating my ass off. can barely live or go enjoy time off. go find something else? its not always just that easy.
what i would do to have security in a boring well paid position where i dont have to worry much.
My husband is in an identical boat. I feel for you. He repairs storm water pipes. We live in an area where winters are mild and Summers are brutally hot. We barely scrape by and he works his ASS off. My hats off to you, my dude
I kinda see where your coming from but being busy at work makes it go way quicker. As long as it's not too stressful I prefer to be busy.
Ya I get that. I think it's personality based. My wife is that same way, can't just sit still otherwise it seems like torture. Me, on the other hand, I can get sucked into youtube for hours. Or reddit or whatever. I tend to do a lot of internet chores as well. Research home repairs, online shopping, do taxes, set up appointments, book vacations, etc.
Confirmed. ~4 hours left of my shift and my work was done a few hours ago.
Managers reading this: "See? You can do more work!"
Its what my company does. All salaried people have a set of tasks to complete, once done the time is yours, if you want to do more just ask, and they will find some more for you to do, with a raise(not big but not small either). So as you get really good at inventory/scheduling/reports, I've had months where I probably averaged 3 hours a day of "work". But when I get a new project, or responsability it usually takes me a few months of 8 hour days to learn it, optimize it, and integrate it into my regular schedule.
Or you'll have the typical company: "Oh you did 8 hours of work in 3 hours? That means you could do two times the work for the same pay!"
This is why you spend 8 hours working that 3 hours spread across the entire day.
Exactly. Gotta intentionally work inefficiently.
15% of my day is spent working and the other 85% is spent "looking busy". Every. Fucking. Day.
This sounds exhausting and demoralising
It is, I did it for a year. It's why remote work is so good, because you're still doing the same work but then instead of pretending for the rest, you're playing video games or watching tv or reading a book or working in the yard or doing a puzzle or exercising or any of a million different things. And you can run errands during the day when they're less crowded, and actually get out and enjoy the sunshine if that's what you want. You get your work done and the rest of your day is yours to fill with what makes you happy, instead of a tiny sliver of your day in the evenings.
I would ask my employer if they're paying me to do a job or paying for my time. The former incentivizes me to work fast and efficient, the latter incentivizes me to do the bare minimum at the slowest allowable pace.
I have five hours left.
It's also proof that Reddit is a bubble of office workers which are not the majority.
Just be aware that most of us, like the actual "most" in *most of us*, can't understand wtf it is you guys even do in those offices, where you can joke about looking at memes on the job and whatnot. I work 5 days a week and I don't have time to do everything that needs to be done. I'm glad this isn't the case for you, but it's different for most people.
Seriously, I build shit for a living. If I fuck around on Reddit all day, shit doesn't get built. Kinda obvious that I haven't built shit when there's no built shit to look at.
What kinda job exists on a computer where there's no tangible output after 8 hours?
Eh, I work IT and we have days when I can't even finish half of what comes up, but then I have days when I do literally almost nothing. I've learned to treat it like I'm on call in that when there's work I'm 100% in but when there's not work I don't feel bad about it.
The way I see it they're paying for my expertise to be available, not for my man hours spent.
As a teacher, I can only check my phone when I’m in the bathroom. And I’m only able to go to the bathroom during lunch.
Yep. For much of the working class who aren't white collar, this is a joke. Many would love to be able to work a consistent 9-5.
I'm reading this from my work desk, that I had to commute to even though my whole department demonstrated that we could be productive teleworking during covid. I have more time in the day than I have work, but I have to waste the time and money and lost sleep commuting to and from the office to pretend like I'm busy when I'm not.
This makes me so angry as someone who has to commute for work. Like let the people who can work from home do it ffs. There enough traffic as it is. I have to do my work in person if someone can use a computer to work god please just let them do it from the comfort of their home (if they want). I know I said the same thing twice but it really irks me
It's happening whether anyone likes it or not. I'm being asked to return to office, but less than 1/3 of my cohort is in my *timezone,* fewer in my actual building. So I'll be doing literally the same I am doing at home, but with a commute, cubicle constraints, and renewed limits on my time, and without much benefit to outweigh it.
It's silly to even ask me to come back, but there is a sense of "normal" that people want, so there we're going.
I’m really interested to see what happens to commercial real estate in the next couple of years. Most of my friends with office jobs in the Bay Area are going to continue to work remote and their company is either downsizing the office space or getting rid of it entirely
You'll probably see commercial real estate company really start slashing rents and enticing companies to stay or move in. Might last for a little bit, then they'll probably try to make some other use out of their buildings/land. Luckily for them, most office buildings are easy to retrofit, if they wanted. So you could see some mixed use stuff from that. Or they'll just do a tear down and try to go residential, though that can't always work in some office areas.
Louis Rossman has some great videos on the topic of commercial real estate in the current climate. Basically the prices won't drop because they are locked in to having to lease at a price set by the banks and agreements. They could perhaps give a several month discount as incentive but that's about it.
Louis is a really smart guy, but he's over-confident in some of his assertions. You can't enforce an agreement against an insolvent property owner. At some point, you simply end up owning property that you can't rent out due to an economic rock & a hard place.
If demand collapses, it'll be an endurance race to see who can hold out. Banks will buy up vacant properties and let them sit vacant, because the property taxes will be cheaper than the economic hit they'd take from a supply-flooded market.
It's going to get *far* more interesting than "lease prices are set by bank agreements". Much of this hinges on exactly how much demand evaporates from the commercial real estate markets. Banks can only absorb so much.
Thanks. I'm a novice and appreciate you explaining it better then I could.
I agree 95%. Banks won't buy up the vacant property, rather they will begin foreclosure proceedings and then sell the notes, potentially at a discount, to opportunistic investors. Banks have a lot of red tape and bureaucracy to deal with, owning a property is too much of a hastle. If you can get rid of a building at 80% cost it's still a win compared to the legal costs and headache of running a property. We saw this happen in the post 2008 market when a lot of smaller landlords got wiped out.
Private equity/Zillow is going to snatch the market when shit drops.
Real estate is trapped, too.
I have been moving every year because the gross rents are insanely inflated. But the net effective rent is usually more down-to-earth.
Like, $2500 gross, but 4mo free, so around $1667/mo net.
It’s absolute insanity how good my deals have been these past two years.
Damn. That *almost* makes up for having to move every year
I hate moving with a passion. We had a house fire a few years ago, a complete loss, just a pile of ash left. On the bright side I didn't have to move a single piece of furniture:) Never planning on moving ever again. But if I do I may just take some mementos and then have a company come by and trash everything else.
You know you have a real friend if they help you move. No one wants to deal with any part of that.
After having a pick-up truck all throughout college, I told my friends that I am done helping people move. Don't bother asking unless it is an absolute emergency. I just pack all my shit and pay mover to load and unload now. Luckily I'm able to do that cause fuck moving!
I'm weird and since I hate moving myself I'm all about helping friends move, so I would trade my civic for my buddy's old ford ranger for the weekend and get all the free pizza and beer.
You see the same thing in new development residential - landlords need their rent roll to be x amount, so they'll give free months at move in but wont lower rents.
It's kind of dumb. The bank can call in the loan if they try and rent it out below market value but if nobody is renting it than that's not really market value now is it?
I'd actually ge interested to see towers where you could live, work and shop all in the same building. I think it would attract a lot of people for the convenience.
This is the model I have been seeing around SC the last decade. Columbia, Myrtle Beach, Charleston...
Shops with apartments over them and the whole place looks like a tiny village. It's very aesthetically pleasing and extremely convenient. Rents are twice what they are for free standing structures though.
This type of real estate started to get build here in NJ. Apartments near train stations with shops and restaurants on the first floor. They are being advertised to young professionals that commute to NYC with rent nearing $4000/month in some places.
Apartments like this would have convinced me to buy one rather than a single family home. Alas, there aren't any near me.
SimCity 2000 Arcology's
I also had images of Judge Dredd's megacity
Except NA, most of the world lived that way since the beginning of time.
This is already a thing in basically every major city in Canada.
Toronto and Montreal have the largest networks of underground tunnels in the world. And no, I don't mean dingy, leaky, dark caves. I mean shopping Meccas connected to transit, parking, grocery stores, office towers, and residential buildings.
I lived and worked in two towers connected to the PATH in Toronto. If I so chose, I literally never had to go outside. Didn't bring a winter jacket to work for like 3 months.
>I'd actually ge interested to see towers where you could live, work and shop all in the same building. I think it would attract a lot of people for the convenience.
Mega City 1
Fun fact: If you run the numbers given in the beginning of the movie (the Karl Urban one), Megacity 1 has an *absurdly* low crime rate. Like, if it existed today, it would be the safest large city in America by a significant margin.
That's what happens when you have judge jury and executioner all wrapped into one and unlike real life that is what is intended so there's no legal recourse against it. If you disagree that's 2 years in the Isocubes. ;)
Iirc That was the original plan for malls. You'd have the shopping area and office area and would usually connect either through walkway or paths to thr residential towers/Apts. They also had much bigger green spaces as well.
Basically a self enclosed village/town
The Parole Towers in Annapolis tried for this. Too bad their rents are astronomical, so no one that works at any of the businesses could ever hope to afford the rent.
If you talk to the REIT bulls, they say that this is all temporary, that after a year or two they'll fill back up, and we'll be back to normal.
I don't buy it.
At least for office/knowledge work, I just don't see the massive benefit of having the entire office being in-person, every single day. I get the argument for having a location people can come in one a week or once a sprint or whatever to brainstorm, but past that, I just don't see it. And I think people are enjoying their new work/life balance enough that many of them are going to demand some level of hybrid-remote.
All that adds up to less office space. And maybe over a decade just additional businesses starting up might fill them in, but I think I can do more productive things with my money for the next 7-8 years while I wait for it to bottom out.
Work for REIT, can confirm this is the rhetoric they’re pushing (praying for). And forcing us back into the office for no good reason other than keeping up with appearances.
Read: We are going to all be out on our asses because there's no one here to bullshit with. Useless shits.
Me: "What do you think will happen with commercial real-estate?"
REIT Investor: "It will definitely go up again!"
Me: "Based on what?"
REIT Investor: "Based on the fact that if it doesn't, I'm screwed, so that's the narrative I'm going with!"
In my city I was reading an article where a advocacy group (aka lobbists) for commercial real estate building companies were 'sounding the alarm' about empty buildings and reduced tax base, and in the very next article talking about how home property prices in the city have skyrocketed and how there is a housing shortage.
It would be hilarious if it didn't show the complete lack of city planning and how our land use is setup for one or two decades at best, and then it becomes everyone elses problem.
I know that's part of the reason for our move. We own a building here, it's undergone renovations over the pandemic. Dont want to waste that investment...
Sunk cost fallacy is strong
Turn it into housing units! Everyone deserves a roof over their head and maybe the cost of living will drop enough for the working class in the Bay Area to service.
yea too bad the homeowners of SF are diametrically opposed to any form of affordable housing project because it "reduces home values"
I shit you not I have a buddy that works for netflix that gets pissed that his neighbors who bought their home in the 70s only have to pay 10% of the property taxes he does. I say "well you knew that going in and agreed to pay that price, you shouldn't be trying to get your old AF neighbors to try and pay what you do" Meanwhile dude has over a $1m car collection in his 6 car garage... in his house... in SF
This is actually harder than it seems at first glance. The requirements for a home vs office are very different. Usually by the time the conversion is done, it is so expensive it isn’t really worth it.
Yep. i have to go back 3 days a week. Reasons were they wanted people to be able to have in person meetings and collaboration. Before the required return, people who wanted to do that would show up to do that. Now I get to go in 3 days a week and listen to my department talking on zoom in seperate meetings, at their desk because no one else is in that day. Most of the people I directly work with are out of another office hours away so I'll never see them. I don't get why this is a thing. It's so ineffective. I get so much less done in the office.
Same situation! No need to make me come in, just 'we want that culture back'. I hope they enjoy their culture. It was a great reminder to update my resume.
Same bro. Its really frustrating. I feel like my only option is to look for employment elsewhere
Do it. Make sure to state the reason during your exit interview.
Thank you for the encouragement
Ngl these last few weeks have been quite difficult.
Start prepping that resume my man. Now is the best time to get out there and find something new.
A ton of companies grew an asston in the pandemic and are needing new folks.
There is going to be a massive amount of job shifting and the companies that allow flexibility will be the ones to grow exponentially because they will have and retain the best talent. The thing that gets me is even the place I work who wants people back most of the week is going to almost certainly replace the people who quit with remote employees for cheaper. I imagine a lot of companies who "need everyone back in the office" will do the same.
My company told us to be back 3-5 days a week recently. I go in from time to time because I have to do stuff in the lab but that's it. There is still nobody there every time I go in. So we're doing our part in forcing it to happen whether they like it or not haha.
This is my situation as well. Our particular office went home over Covid and we haven't come back, sounds like the rest of the company never left the office. They want people back in for the "collaboration", but there's literally no one there. The people that go into the office complain it's a ghost town and they're alone sitting in an office. We're all keeping our heads down hoping corporate doesn't realize we're all staying home. They also got rid of some our leased office space, and asked people to volunteer to go 100% from home - so I did...and then...we got acquired and they're changing the terms. We've got a ton of people leaving though and we're in a bind for employees, so I think I've got some leverage.
Office model of work culture needs to die. Everyone has access to the same shit at home now.
For the jobs that this applies to. Unfortunately not mine but hearing my friend say they'll go back to the office soon was painful. Literally all they need is a phone and a computer to do their job
We need the flexibility to be able to choose. Not all of us have the space, or ability to easily work from home. We should be able to when we want to or need to, but it is not the same as going to a dedicated work space - and that's not a bad thing, it's just different - and people thrive in different circumstances.
All I need to do my job is the same, a computer and a phone. But I fucking hate working from home, and I am looking forward to being able to be in my workplace again. I don't concentrate well at home (ADHD is partly to blame), I live next to what is currently a construction site for a new building, my "office" is also the dining room, and a bedroom (that is not mine, I don't have the ability to work in my bedroom for a number of reasons) - and we've got two of us having to coordinate our meetings with each other which sometimes require the other person to be absolutely silent because both of us do panels/live talks/recorded things that have audiences watching for education/entertainment.
I might feel differently if we had enough space, didn't live next to a construction site, or had access to better internet. But we don't, and a lot of other people are in the same boat.
Flexibility and the ability to choose is key.
I've been lucky with the fact that my manager doesn't care if I WFH, because he knows I'm getting stuff done. It's the corpo policy that's placing this millstone.
If remote workers being called back hold positions that an employer would have trouble filling... just don't go back in.
In my yearly check-in recently I was told my performance was up, was doing a great job, yadda yadda, oh by the way office next week.... all I needed to know, they showed me their cards.... Been continuing remote for 4 weeks now, not a peep from the boss, just more good work to show for it. I should add the company has hired other full-time remote positions over the past few years to fill spots they struggle to fill. Sorry bitches, socialize the losses somewhere else (esp with a disproportionately high cost of living where they are based)... the fuckin' nerve these people have.
Millennials with skill should start practicing asking for forgiveness vs permission... I was raised to ask for permission, and watched everything filed into the "good ideas for later" bin. Now I work remote, and could just as easily probably grab another remote job if my great output was too much for the current place...
Boomer bosses still operating with 90s “butts in seats” mentality.
"I'm paying you to BE HERE."
Nope. You're paying me to do a job. If the job is done, why the fuck do you care where my body is? The number of jobs that *require* a physical presence is rapidly dwindling. If it's possible to do a job remotely, it should be allowed 100% of the time.
My (soon to be ex) boss once told me that he needs me in the room next door so he can "use me as a resource" when he needs me. I pointed out that e-mails and cell phones exist, and he said "yeah, but then I'd be calling you every five minutes, because it takes too long to send an e-mail and wait for a response."
Well... if you would *think* about a question for two minutes before yelling it from your office, you might realize that you don't *need* to ask me a question every five minutes, and 95% of the time you probably already know the answer (because I've already told you), or can figure it out yourself (pro-tip: Outlook has a search function, and I've already e-mailed you the information you're looking for).
If your boss is asking you a question every 5 minutes, then it sounds like he has no idea what he is doing and needs to be let go.
Probably also why he's about to be your ex-boss, cause I'd quit that shit too.
> it sounds like he has no idea what he is doing and needs to be let go.
He's the CEO!
>Probably also why he's about to be your ex-boss, cause I'd quit that shit too.
That's a Bingo!
Why think for yourself when you have some overeducated peon to exploit?
Till all the new shutdowns happen
Already has been. You have to work 9-5:30 now because companies don't pay for you lunch anymore.
9-6 for many companies here in Japan.
Plus whatever overwork, and job contracts often include up to 60 hours a week of work before overtime pay kicks in.
In norway we do 9-5 and 40 hours a week. Everything after 40 hours in a week is overpay
( If you dont get this from your employeer, he is cheating you)
I'm an electrical contractor in NYC that uses local 3 IBEW Electricians. Any time over 7 hours a day is overtime. Not anything over 35 hours a week. A Day.
Some IBEW bargaining agreements are legit insane. I did consulting for Taft-Hartley health funds for a few years out of college, including the largest one in the country (I believe), and holy shit their medical benefits were the best I have ever seen by a massive margin.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this a cultural thing in Japan? My understanding is that workers often sacrifice lots of personal time for their work as it’s a largely a collectivist society there.
9-6 for most private companies in portugal aswell and we don't have any of the work culture of Japan or a collectivist society culture
Japan is capitalist with a desk warming culture. To be a good salary man you need to be at your desk. It doesn't matter if you are actually being productive.
This is a personal issue I have that most people don’t tend to talk about
Yeah - and many places do an hour lunch to extend total business hours - so you're really there 8-5 or 8:30-5:30
This is me at my new job. I'm just fortunate that I can fuck off and go home for that hour rather than spend it at the office.
Indeed, I'm 41 and I've never worked a job where I got paid for lunch. I've always wondered where this "9 to 5" phrase came from. Did people back in the day get paid for lunch? I'm American, btw.
I've always had a salaried 8-5 with a one hour lunch break. Never understood where 9am came in. Ofcourse if work load requires it, you work late to get the job done.
8-5 with an unpaid lunch hour. Hasn't been 9-5 since probably the 80s
“We’re 8-5 because the 40 hour week means 40 *working* hours”
Gtfo capitalists if you think that the human body is built to do productive work for 40h/week continuously and effectively
I've just gotten a new job that's 40 working hours, though it's fully remote. Not to say I'd be slacking off, but it'll be much more managable than 40 hours sat in an office with a manager looking over you and restricted internet access.
40 working hours is stupid for many jobs, especially knowledge-based jobs, because people literally *can't* work for 8 straight hours. Your brain just gets burned out and you end up slacking off anyway. It's much better to have "goals", wherein you set a realistic amount of work that you want done in a set period of time, and you just aim to get that done. Whatever the details look like to make that happen don't matter (unless people are continuously going over 40 hours a week, which is indicative that they're taking on too much work, and that should be adjusted).
I work in the mining industry. We work 14 days in a row, 12-13 hours per day. Like any job, people chat, take breaks and lurk the internet, but most people are still productive within the 12+ hours span.
The problem isn't the number of hours, it's the number of days off. 5-2 is cancer because of this.
Yeah, it's obviously YMMV depending on the work you do. There are some task-based jobs where you can keep busy all day (though automation is coming for many of those, eventually). So what works in the office might not work there, etc.
Yes! I waste so much time putting on a show of looking busy when I really have nothing to do. If I were at home at least I could dick around on the internet.
It’s about control. They don’t want you doing that.
I walk out the door / close my laptop at 5pm
My job is salaried and they don’t care about my hours they just want the work done. I could literally fuck off all week and do nothing as long as whatever deadline I have is met. It’s honestly kinda great I was able to move while getting paid to do it and I’ve taken trips and stayed in different vacation spots during a work week because I can do it remotely.
I’m an Architect if anyone was wondering.
Yep, my job takes considerably less than 40 hours to do every week once you remove all the unnecessary meetings and other distractions.
It's wild, I thought I would be far more distracted WFH.
Outcome-based work is the real future. Need more roles and companies that look at things this way.
I think it opens up a bit of a loophole that could be exploited both ways. If the company realizes that the outcomes are met quite fast( let's say in 24hrs of work in two weeks) they'll estimate the next outcome's deadline to be faster and then you'll have to work 48 hrs in one week to meet that outcome. Worse, if it is really badly quoted/estimated than you'll have to work to the bone on an outcome that the company see as not that challenging and would have been better compensated if it was hourly. I mean, there is always good and bad side for both ways. I see that the on the outcome pathway, might have been better to just work for yourself instead of a company depending on the area.
And that's why you always stretch out your work to the original estimate...
This is also the life of a software engineer. So long as the deadline is met and under budget, how you do it doesn't matter. I tend to work in the mornings and then late, late at night just because that's when my brain works best, never get anything done in the afternoon so why bother trying to work it's just wasted time both for me and for the company.
Same here as well. I sincerely appreciate that my company trusts that I will get my code in on time regardless of how I do it. Makes the day to day so much more enjoyable and I feel that the work I put out is just that much better for it.
I'm also experiencing this as an Electrical Engineer. I'm able to work from home but I don't have to sit down and stare at my computer trying to act busy since they know I get my work finished so I'm not micromanaged. It's really nice because I don't have to take vacation days when I have something for an hour midday or have to "make up" hours arbitratily. Once I switch to full WFH in my new position I'll be able to travel and work if I please.
Structural Engineer here, I could have done this all last year as well and I seriously regret not finding a spot near the beach to remote from, no one would have known any better.
Everyone always talks about the office jobs. How does this work in construction/trades? Service workers, nurses/doctors?
I can tell you in the film industry neither short hours nor wfh are observed. Some people in the production office like payroll etc are allowed to wfh depending on the production but besides regular covid testing and a worsened crafty and catering experience my job hasn't changed in any meaningful way cause of covid.
>Some people in the production office like payroll etc are allowed to wfh
Yeah film's nuts. I have a friend in film (accounting) and she pulls like 10-11 hour days doing heads down work that "requires" her to be in the office. Even at the peak of covid they wouldn't let her wfh, they preferred to just pay her to stay home and not work.
She likes it though because it's long days for 3 months or whatever the length of the production is, then she can take as much unpaid time off as she wants between contracts. Not sure I'd be able to live like that but it works really well for some people.
Chiming in as someone who could not handle it. 12+ hour days on set, 5-6 days a week depending on the production. That shit destroyed me and I left after two years.
Meanwhile, I have friends who have been doing it for decades and they love the flexibility it affords them.
Echoing this here. I've been turning around 70 hour weeks in person for the last couple months or so. The film industry is busier than I've ever seen it, and there's just not enough capable people to hire. Shit's crazy, man.
Teacher here; it doesn't (unless we go through a full societal shift)
I worked for a company that tried to move to 4 days a week, 10 hours a day. We switched back within 2 months.
In construction there is no working from home, first off. Those 10 hour days get old pretty fast.
Second, the 4 day work week doesn't really work. You end up with zero flexibility. People working 10 hour days simply refuse to do overtime, since its just too long. Who can blame them?. No one will work the weekend since they worked 10 hour days all week and want the 3 days off. If youre going to work 10 hour days, those 3 days off are really nice.
So you end up with zero flexibility. Sometimes projects run into problems and extra time is needed to fix them. This is just how construction is. You cant do anything about it. You just need the option of having guys work an extra day now and then or stay late and wrap things up since often times there are other trades that need you done your part before they can start theirs. Getting something done before the coming monday is not optional. It *has* to be done.
With a 5 day work week there is flexibility. People are willing to do a couple extra hours, or work a saturday. The OT pay is nice and they dont mind doing it.
I know everyone on reddit seems to be against the 5 day work week, but we dont all sit on reddit 4 hours a day getting paid for it. 10 hour days in construction are long, and the OT isn't as nice when it means 12 hour days or 10 hr days plus 6 day weeks.
What ended up happening with us was the boss would just have to pick up the slack. 14 hour days. 7 days a week. Unsustainable.
Just my experience.
As a white working class person in Florida, March 2020 and onwards has basically just been a reality TV show for me. Nothing at all has changed IRL for me. It's like I'm living in a different world.
Same. Truck driver here. We were slow last March and a bit of April, and ever since they can't work us enough, there is so much to move.
If it weren't for the internet, I'd have thought this was all well-past over last May.
I still havent been on a single zoom call. None of the jobs I have worked in the last few years could be done remotely. 9-5 office jobs are getting so much attention now and talked about as if they are so brutal. Bitch those are the cush gigs WTF.
You know when you will be working before 8-12 hrs prior to working. You know when your days off are and they dont change. Its air conditioned and out of the weather. You stay clean throughout the day. You are very likely getting benefits or at least some PTO.
9-5 office jobs are among the best schedules and jobs to actually work everyday.
I've worked in trades for 25 years and have never worked 9-5. I've always started earlier than 9. Currently I work 8hrs (+ occasional time-and-a-half overtime) mon-fri, with my day starting at 6:30. I have the choice of starting my work day anywhere from 6am to 8am.
As a tradesperson who makes stuff, a 3-4 day week does not work. I need 40hrs to produce what I'm expected to produce.
Any time work is discussed on Reddit, or the media in general, it seems like it's assumed that everyone works in an office.
That's because the people who write these types of articles are working in offices.
We’re in the same boat, I love starting early and the idea of more free time is a dream, can’t see it being a reality based on project deadlines.
Asking honestly because I’m not a tradesperson: who sets the expectations? And is it possible to change what’s expected of you?
Industry. The company needs to stay competitive to win bids. You can't say your people will get a project done in 9 months when it takes another company only 4 months or something.
Not the op but for me it's per project. I do construction materials testing and inspections and I'm currently inspecting a large retaining wall. The crew starts at 7 so I need to be there at 7 or fairly soon after. Lots of trades are expected to be on site when the general contractor tells them to be or just keeping up with the schedule. You're behind? Get there early and stay late to catch up.
Aircraft mechanic, 8-5 unpaid hour long lunch, no working from home (obviously).
That being said I can use their hanger and all the tools to work on my own stuff on weekends, I can take a bunch of time off, and it’s pretty clean easy work for $30 an hour with regular raises. All the mechanics own a house, airplane/ocean boat, or have a family.
That's the thing,most of these talks are about office jobs. Even what you see with diversity, inclusion and stuff like this,they refuse to acknowledge the production sector on wich they depend on.
I keep seeing shit like this but what can we actually do. Let's get the ball rolling.
I'd love some practical guidance too.
The pandemic changed everything. Then depending on what company you work for it got changed back.
All my friends work flexible hours from home now... I'm back to the office because we are oldschool insurance.
Change happens slowly. The pandemic accelerated a process that was always going to take place, but it'll still take awhile for it to fully manifest. What will force the hand of companies like yours is the eventual competition they'll have in the labor market. If they want to retain employees like yourself, or hire new, top tier employees, they'll have to make changes. If they don't, they'll find themselves struggling to hire and retain their workforce.
My wife is an account manager for an insurance company. She approached her boss with an opening bid of "I'll come in every Thursday". In reality she would have been perfectly happy with two or three days a week in the office. They were so thrilled that she wasn't flat out refusing to come in that they took it. Now most of the account managers in her company are set up to come in two or three days but they've got her down as just one day.
Insist that you be evaluated for projects completed, not time worked. If you've been adding value commensurate to your employ, where, when, and how you work shouldn't matter. If you have to, insist on it as part of your compensation package. The more people who do that, the more normal it will be.
What often happens if you preform well is they give you more tasks, because clearly the current workload is no big deal to you.
After a while you get burnt out and they do the same shit to the next guy that does well. The smart guys are actually the ones doing bare minimum while appearing busy. Like coming in early and leaving late will make you seem like a hard worker, even though your jacking it 3 times a day in the bathroom.
A big part of this is also about getting better at saying "No I'm already topped out."
Companies need to take that as a reason to hire a new person, not call it a reason the worker isn't a team player.
I spent multiple times writing 2am emails to the VP and Owner (after finishing my work for the day) when I was overloaded and working insane hours. They didn't hear a word because the work kept getting done somehow. It was only when I refused to do work or showed them how much things were slipping because I couldn't single-handedly keep a company propped up that they started hearing me. Things are getting better now that I have drawn the line, however they haven't brought in the needed help yet...
This is how I run my teams. We get a list of what the business wants done, we look at it and decide a realistic amount we can take on, make sure it is scopable so that we can gracefully fall off if we get that wrong, and then get to work. Past that, and aside from being available for conversations within a reasonable window, I don't care about when/how the work gets done. I check in to see how things are going, adjust where needed, and otherwise assume we've hired smart people that will get done what they agreed to do (or if not, retro and figure out why, and adjust for the future).
Seems to be working ok so far.
This can not be done at my job. I've essentially tried. I wanted to work remotely since I work in social media and marketing but it was for a library and they kept refusing. Even when it was inclement weather they refused. I showed significant growth across all KPI and even anecdotal evidence of the community being involved online and turning into conversions but they just refused. They would rather have a body at the library. I would literally come in and go sit in the basement for 8 hours and then go home. Ultimately we parted ways cause fuck them.
That's definitely a problem on them, they are going to have to lose good employees to be able to see the light, so it's a shift that is going to be required on their part, but if employees keep quietly accepting the treatment, they'll keep doing it.
I know that doesn't help much to keep jobs, but companies are starting to see the issue.
Absolutely. The real problem is that it was a library. A government entity. They don't care about good employees or how good the work is. After spending nearly 12 years in libraries I can tell you all they care about is the cliques, the status quo, and keeping a body at the library. They waste money, they fail, they reward bad behavior and bad work ethic....but the second you ask to work remotely cause of a global pandemic or a snowstorm and they freak out. That's why I left and am looking for a place that actually values people, good work, and work life balance.
I don’t think this applies to just government entities as I work in private sector and see same thing. I think it’s old school micromanager mindset to blame.
Have you thought that maybe the library simple can't accomodate your request because of some rule that is above them?
Whenever I think government entity, i think arbitrary rules and entropy that even the people that were suposed to be able to change anything, can't because they require 3 different approvals and no one wants to rock the boat.
Recently my office had to start back 3 days a week so we can better collaborate. I still see no one outside of chit-chat or catching up, and have yet to talk to anyone about project work while in the office. My request for perm WFH was also denied, but by upper management after my dept heads were totally for it. I'm a programmer and have no need to be a particular location.
I literally just had a video interview with a gas company, asking me if I’m ok driving for 21 days straight/12 to 16 shifts… with a day or two off here and there; if orders permit it. “It’s peak gas season and we gotta make money!” Then the guy had the nerve to also say, “I’ve been finding it hard to find people that actually want to work for a living..” and in my head all I kept thinking was, “how sad are you?!”… I’m 35 and completely burnt the fuck out. I’m sick of barely having enough time to do anything outside of just working. I’m sick of scheduling my family’s life and my own around a job that doesn’t give a shit about anything else, but profit. I want to work so that I can enjoy the only life I’m going to live, I refuse to live to fucking work any longer.
Nine to five? I’d kill to work nine to five.
Eight to six seems to be most in Vogue.
How about retail hours? Getting off at 10 at night and opening the store at 8 in the morning. Retail hours are torture on the mind and body.
I have experience in boutique-shop management rather than big-box, but I imagine the problems I faced at that smaller scale only get much, much larger as your shop gets bigger.
The main issue I had was that a lot of retail employees *choose* retail because of strange scheduling. I'd get lots of teenagers or young-adults in college who would be able to work two or three days one week, but have alternating-week class schedules, or other scheduled activities, etc.
I'd get younger parents who have school-aged kids who need various days and times off or reserved for things. In all of this you'd have to schedule around all of it - and that made it hard to really set a schedule that would carry for very long.
I tried to get people who could be in a set position in one - and even then, people would come and ask to switch first/second shifts after a while to keep things fresh - but the more people I had with dynamic scheduling requirements, the harder it became.
I have worked with many people in my life and there are only two kinds when it comes to this.
The kind that have a good home life and cant wait to be at home.
The kind that do not and cant wait to be in the office and dont want to leave.
I always hated the people that looked for crap to do to keep everyone late so they didnt have to go home. I love being at home. I would rather be there than anywhere.
My friends partner works at a major e-commerce company and had a director level person schedule a meeting for 5pm on Valentine’s Day the other year.
Just to shoot the shit. Director was single.
My friends partner was also told by their manager that if they had a baby it would be “a blocker” for career progression at this company and then only had one 1:1 weekly meeting over the course of the following year.
I love spending 60 hours a week doing shit I barely care about and squeezing in tons of professional development courses.
This past year and half, I came to the realization that working 9-5 wasn't the problem, working in the office was the problem. When working at the office, your entire life revolved around your job and days past by so slowly and you get so exhausted by 3pm that you can't get any more work done. This snowballs day after day. Office drains you of all your energy which means you get less work done and when you get home your to tired to any personal things.
By working remote, the workday literally flies by and I have so much energy because I'm in the comfort of my own home. There are so many times where I work past 5pm because I actually have the energy to do so. I get more work done and I have more personal time by working remote, it's literally a win win for employer and employee
Beyond that, so much of work is pretending to work to stretch out the work day. That's so much easier working from home.
Businesses requiring it's employees to wear suits or dress up clothing is also antiquated. Even if I was watching some high profile court case and the lawyers were dressed casually in jeans I would see that as fine. It won't change the outcome of the case.
People work better when they are comfortable. Some people spend more than an hour every morning getting ready for work. Casual should be the new norm for work attire.
I work a job that supports others in IT work. I suspect my job just mirrors what others are doing, so if the rest of you folks stop working 9 to 5 then I can adjust to match it. How can I help you all along? lol
The worst part about stuff like this is that I immediately think I’ll never see this ever happen. Change moves so slowly in our society I feel like it takes at least 150 years before something that’s already recognized as beneficial gets adopted. I just automatically assume shit like this will never happen in my lifetime and it’s such a bummer.
I went back for a half-day to play nice and see what it was about. HR was empty, big welcome back sign, lights off... Email sent the next day "By the way, water is off tomorrow in the building, we are also drilling into concrete." Yup... I'm done going in.
Took me about 3 hours to do 30 min of work. If they want me socializing and distracted, then by all means call me back in. But I'm not going to carry the same output whatsoever. Happy workers = good work.
But how do they know if they're getting their money's worth out of you if you're not constantly working?
I work 10.5-16 hour shifts pls help. I didn’t go to college I feel like I’m being punished for growing up in a broken and hostile home life.
I’m serious man, consider certain government jobs, hell, even the post office is supposed to be a decent place to work from a friend of a friend who works there.