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Sakamoto on why it's taken so long for Metroid Dread, Samus' character, SA-X's influence, more

Sakamoto on why it's taken so long for Metroid Dread, Samus' character, SA-X's influence, more

YeetCacti

> Q: What kind of character is Samus in Metroid Dread? > She’s the same Samus everyone knows. You can’t go wrong with a stoic, pro bounty hunter. Completely dodging the Other M problems I see. He was probably told to not touch that with a 15 foot pole.


thefezhat

That question and answer are so loaded with unspoken meaning, lol. Glad Sakamoto seems to be backing off whatever the fuck he was trying to do with Other M.


ExpertAttempt

One can imagine Sakamoto staring off into the middle distance, remembering the backlash to Other M, his personal pet project, and just being *"...Yeah, can't go wrong with a badass bounty hunter, eh?".*


basketofseals

I'm honestly skeptical of such a short response. The Other M was developed because Sakamoto was completely unaware that the Samus everyone knows and the Samus in his head are entirely different. Unless I hear an outright denouncement of the Other M's Samus(which I know he won't do for a lot of reasons, and a fair number of those reasons entirely reasonable), I'll expect more of the same from him.


MilargoNetwork

As someone who’s out of the Metroid loop, what are the differences between Sakamoto’s idea of Samus and the fans?


basketofseals

As Samus hadn't had a speaking role before, a lot of her character was inferred by the setting of the previous games. We know that she was very brave, strong willed, and determined by the many missions she undertakes solo that requires an absolute massive amounts of devastation to accomplish. She was an absolute one woman army. We assumed she was stoic given that we don't see her really casually hang out with anyone, but we know she's not an unfeeling stone cold soldier with her rescuing the baby metroid and the camaraderie with her fellow bounty hunters in Prime 3. The Samus Sakamoto put out is more reminiscent of one of those porn doujins where they take delight in breaking down a strong woman. She was an absolute doormat that just accepts the abuse hurled at her by Adam, including one time where he just straight up shoots her in the back for no reason. She has a mental breakdown when she sees a recurring villain who she's murdered twice already on her own. Motherhood, which was a very small but not ignorable part of Samus' previous established character, was cranked up to 11 and becomes a central character trait that she monologues about quite a bit. Samus was always seen as a paragon of strong female characters in the west, especially being one of the first, while Sakamoto's idea was intensely and uncomfortably sexist with the way the narrative kept focusing how much on how much of a woman she is, and in a lot of ways about how being a woman is a bad thing. So even if Samus hadn't had preconceived characterization, it would still have been really bad. It's just *extra* bad when he turned one of the biggest female badasses into someone who has to be rescued by big men in power armor from a villain she's disposed of before.


MilargoNetwork

Fascinating, talk about a tone-deaf take. I can certainly understand the negative reaction. Thanks for the write-up!


CatProgrammer

Fusion Samus was supposed to be a continuation of Other M Samus, wasn't she? What with Adam, etc. If they keep her monologuing to no more than that level we should be fine.


NamesTheGame

Fusion came out 8 years before Other M...


CatProgrammer

And Other M is a prequel to Fusion meant to explain who the fuck Adam is and how he died.


Dragarius

And I hope he's never mentioned again. But unlikely.


Lynchbread

Adam (the computer version at least) has already been shown in the game during the Nintendo Treehouse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGR95Z65PM8


AsterBTT

Adam was never the problem. He was handled really well in Fusion. There was nothing wrong with his relationship with Samus until Other M. And, for what it's worth, his AI is still with Samus in Dread, so he most definitely will continue to be mentioned.


charcharmunro

He was also pretty well-handled in the manga, where he's shown to be an actively competent and capable commander compared to... The actual idiot he is in Other M.


rocker2021

"Samus, I have to go into sector 0 or whatever the fuck it's called alone and blow my self up to insure the Metroids are wiped out completely, goodb ye" Shortly afterwards the self destruct sequence for the entire bottle ship is activated...


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Detsuahxe

Fusion genuinely made it interesting with the way it contrasted the AI with Samus' memory of the man. Other M deserves to be discarded from canon entirely.


AkiWar

Adam is in dread. But unlike in OM and Fusion he doesn’t give you orders, but lore instead. And tips if you get stuck


NamesTheGame

Oh!


TSPhoenix

Based on Other M era interviews the low level of monologuing in games like Super or Fusion came down to technology and not artistic choice.


CatProgrammer

While that may be the case, by the time of Samus Returns they seem to have realized that Metroid fans prefer silent Samus. While there's a big wall of text at the start, it's not from Samus and all the in-game moments are conveyed via non-verbal cutscenes with Samus merely reacting physically. Given that it's the same dev team working on Dread I'm not too worried. Speaking of which, if they maintain the same art style as that opening sequence in Samus Returns for any similar scenes in Dread I'm not too worried about any style issues either, that Mother Brain looked sick.


FedoraSkeleton

Late response, but the traditional "wall of text" at the beginning of each 2D Metroid since Super IS actually from Samus, as it's in first person every time it appears.


gypsylivesmatter85

> The Other M was developed because Sakamoto was completely unaware that the Samus everyone knows and the Samus in his head are entirely different. Are you serious? How is that even possible for a creator lol, especially in the internet age?


basketofseals

I was mistaken. According to some articles that have no source but at least came out at around the appropriate time, he was aware of what the perception of Samus was. He was just determined to show us the "real" Samus. Which of course nobody liked.


AtrophicPretense

I think that still means that the Samus in his head was different than what fans thought of her. It makes it even worse though, because he actively ignored the fact that the "real" Samus he had plans for was absolutely going contrary to fan perception. Or, in another way, it's still a little confusing because his idea of who Samus was goes contrary to the literal exploits she performs in every single game. Seems less tone deaf towards fans, and just tone deaf to his own story...


DextrosKnight

You have to remember Nintendo only discovered that the internet exists within the last console generation. I'm not at all surprised someone at the company had no idea how the fans felt about Samus when Other M was being developed.


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leigonlord

the biggest problem people had with other m was its story and how it handled samus character.


basketofseals

The Other M was a pretty mediocre game that's only real snarl was the awful first person missile controls. But the thing everything remembers the Other M for was how it took Samus, who was previous established as a mostly stoic one woman army, into a simpering, demure doormat of a person who's barely capable of anything. Highlights include: * Samus breaking down into an infantile state when she sees Ridley, a character she's killed twice now even with them attempting to retcon Prime out. * The full introduction of Adam Malkovich, a previously established fatherlike figure who Samus was very close to and learned a lot from, who in The Other M is overtly physically, verbally, and emotionally abusive while showing next to no care for Samus at all. * The infamous authorization mechanic to justify the series' usual bag of spilling which culminates in Samus running through an extremely hostile environment without protective gear that she already has on hand just because Adam didn't tell her to wear it. * A weird attempt to make her seem small. She's often surrounded by huge bulking men in power armor that dwarf her despite Samus being 6 feet tall. * A droning horridly flat narration, that was mandated by the director because the voice actress has quite the resume, often going on and on about motherhood as if that's Samus' driving motivation in life. Pretty much the entire narrative direction was spearheaded by Sakamoto who was determined to "fix" the perception of Samus, which was reviled in the English speaking demographic, and seeing as how Metroid is a mostly western played game, it's understandable if he's been told to keep his distance.


RedditAdminsFuckOfff

"Adam-kun...I-I need to go into the heat zone now...c-can I please turn on Varia?" ​ "No...No I don't think so. I don' think you've earned it yet, do you?" ​ \*sob\* "O-okay Adam-kun...I just want to be the best bounty hunter for you..."


Potatolantern

Meanwhile in Super “Doop, I forgot all my gear again? Oh gosh, I’m just SUCH A DITZ!” And then in Fusion “Oh no! I left all my gear behind, again!? Whoops! I’d lose my head if it wasn’t attached to my neck!” Presumably Dread will be the same clutzy ditz Samus that everyone knows and loves.


DaylightDarkle

You've never played fusion, have you? The gear was definitely not "left behind"


Potatolantern

That’s not really the argument being made here.


GrungyUPSMan

I don’t really understand what your argument is tbh


Potatolantern

That people whigne endlessly about Other M giving actual context for not having all your gear available from the start (and no it's not because "Adam is mean!" it's because, as Samus agrees, it's an unstable area and using missiles etc would possibly blow the whole thing up). The other games give absolutely zero context, Samus just turns up to each mission without any gear. I guess she forgot it! What a ditz! "Oh that Samus!"


EmperorAcinonyx

samus loses all of her gear in fusion bc she gets infected by a virus, nearly dies, and has to have a team of surgeons operate on her and effectively turn her into a new person


Mukigachar

Forgetting her gear is 100% better than not wearing the Varia suit because daddy didn't say you could


Potatolantern

Yeah! I love silly ditz Samus! What comical misadventures will she have next?


NoProblemsHere

To add to your point, it's also the only game in the series that seemed to think we needed to be able to put Samus into and out of her power suit at will and gave her zero suit glowing high heels for some ridiculous reason. IIRC, the actual level design of the game was very linear, even by series standards. The more narrative focus of the game and the aforementioned authorization system seems to have hurt the exploration elements a bit. I think there were only one or two e-tanks that you really needed to backtrack or search to get. The weird little first-person pixel-hunt segments are also often reviled.


stephen_totilo

For what it's worth, I tried to ask Sakamoto a similar question during E3, citing the backlash to Other M, but when Nintendo relayed the question (it was via a group chat), they left the Other M part out and he gave a similar answer. She's the consummate professional bounty hunter in this one. Etc etc. Notably, Other M isn't counted by Nintendo and Sakamoto when they talk about Dread being the fifth game in a five-part story. Make of that what you will!


Cowboy_Dude

The game hasn't come out yet, but I have to wonder what this technical limitation that kept it in limbo for so long? Was he specifically aiming for a 2.5D game on a handheld?


DrDongStrong

Interview states he actually prefers people play on the TV so I’m not sure about handheld. He also states that after technology it came down to resources. Sakamoto has made it clear to me several times since all the way back in 2017 that Mercury’s team was absolutely essential to the last two games existing EDIT: >As game hardware progressed, the problem became a lack of resources to develop the game. I keep repeating myself, but ultimately meeting MercurySteam was what made development possible.


ManateeofSteel

aka “Nintendo doesn’t want to fund AAA Metroid, so this team in Spain said they would do it for cheap”. Not discrediting MercurySteam, but that’s what he is pretty much saying


Sonicfan42069666

The thing is, Nintendo EAD (originally Miyamoto's team) never made Metroid. Metroid, Super Metroid, and Metroid Fusion were all developed by Nintendo R&D (originally Gunpei Yokoi's team). Nintendo restructured their development teams multiple times after Fusion's release, with the bulk of development resources seemingly going to EAD while R&D (which became SPD) was a smaller group of handheld and licensing teams. With that in mind, it makes sense that the mainline Metroid games afterwards (Other M and Samus Returns) needed development partners. It's not necessarily that Nintendo "doesn't want to fund AAA Metroid" (surely Team Ninja wasn't a cheap development partner), it's that the series was then-SPD's - not EAD's - under Sakamoto, and his team didn't have the technical prowess and development resources to make modern 3D games. SPD and EAD are part of the same division now (Nintendo EPD) but ultimately the major EPD teams are former EAD teams who work on the big franchises like Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, and Splatoon. It would be weird to give Metroid to one of those teams when they have literally never touched the Metroid series prior - nor worked with/under Yoshio Sakamoto or even Gunpei Yokoi.


Practical-Parsley

So where does Sakamoto work now? And off-topic, what's Miyamoto's deal these days? Does he have much of a direct influence in first-party games nowadays?


Sonicfan42069666

Yoshio Sakamoto is currently a senior officer at EPD, most associated with Group 7, which is most recently known for Tomodachi Life, Rhythm Heaven, and Samus Returns - seemingly a smaller, previously portable-focused team within SPD. Miyamoto is a "creative fellow," a vague title that to me seems to signal that he likely no longer has as much oversight over the day to day operations of EPD, and provides general creative direction for the EPD studio. Guiding younger developers in how to make games The Nintendo Way, providing feedback for directors and producers, etc. It IS known that he has worked directly with Universal Studios on the Super Nintendo World park design, to the point where he was guiding the Mario Kart ride designers in course design revisions. He was also reported to be working with Illumination in the production of the Super Mario animated film.


FerjustFer

He probably takes part in brainstorimg sessions and has a voice in the approval of projects.


Geistbar

It could be money, but "resources" is more than direct money. Nintendo has long had the cash flow to fund more Metroid games. In this case I think "resources" is more specifically speaking about development staff. Nintendo wanted to keep dev teams on other games, and after all of their higher priority games were covered, they didn't have anyone to make a Metroid game anymore. Starting up a new dev team can be a big undertaking, so presumably Nintendo wasn't interested in that. Finding a third party dev that fits the bill makes it purely a direct financial proposition, and not a limited developer time roadblock.


ManateeofSteel

Nintendo is massive, saying "there's just no staff to do it" isn't an excuse. They're bigger than Ubisoft and Activision combined. By resources they def mean money, because it correlates directly to your point, why make it themselves when a fan developer will do it for less


AkiWar

More like after RND1 closed its doors in 2004 they had no idea who to give Metroid to anymore. Since the OG team was no more


foggiermeadows

Well they're already working on Prime 4, which has always been a AAA series, so it'd be kind of crazy to fund two at once, especially since they started over and rehired Retro.


ManateeofSteel

Retro wasn’t their first option though, it’s like after nothing else worked, they had to actually try


foggiermeadows

For sure but I'm glad they came to their senses with it. Point still stands though they're already dumping a good chunk of money into Prime 4.


Bread_Truck

Wasn’t the game originally supposed to come out like 10-15 years ago?


Sonicfan42069666

It was in development on DS but was scrapped. The only reports we have of its existence (beyond its title being listed on internal documents) claimed it essentially looked like a port of Fusion on the DS. The "we needed to wait until the technology was there" line does come off a bit revisionist, but I can understand Sakamoto and Nintendo not wanting Metroid 5 to essentially look like a two screen GBA game.


feartheoldblood90

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I doubt it: I don't dislike the look of Dread in its current iteration, but for the 2D entries at least I wish they had kept the pixel art aesthetic. Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission and, hell, even Super Metroid, all still look incredibly gorgeous, and I would love to see a more modern and up-rezzed take on that kind of detailed pixel artwork.


UnifyTheVoid

I felt this way too, especially after playing AM2R. As amazing as it was though, Samus Returns was better. I really enjoyed the 2.5D style world, and the "360 degree" aiming makes going back and playing Metroid games without it hard. Hopefully Dread is just a huge evolution over that.


Frigidevil

Federation Force was also supposed to be a DS game and wow would it have been received so much better if it was.


Sarria22

It woud have been recieved much better if it hdn't been announced as the first and only new bit of metroid content we'd had in years. If they had announced like "Samus will be Returning in a full fledged game of her own very soon, but until then here is a fun side game you can play" people wouldn't have treated it with the same kind of vitriol it got. Just like Diablo Immortal.


SvenHudson

Or people could just act like grown-ups and not throw a fit when something they're not interested in gets announced.


DextrosKnight

We must be living in different dimensions if you think adults don't throw temper tantrums over the most inane shit. I mean just look at the last year and a half.


thedoomstar

If they don't treat the fans with respect why should the fans respect them?


SvenHudson

Treating someone with kid gloves is *dis*respect. It's what you do to people you expect to act like a jackass.


AkiWar

Yeah you are right I forgot. Wasn’t it supposed to be a DSi exclusive at some point?


Frigidevil

Huh I didn't hear that, could have been infuriating depending on when it was released.


SmurfyX

> Wasn’t the game originally supposed to come out like 10-15 years ago? being on the internet means reading an article to its conclusion and then being confronted with a comments section where a top comment is some dude asking a question that is addressed in its totality within the first sentences of the same article.


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TSPhoenix

> My guess would be that it involves EMMI AI being more involved than it was in the SA-X. The way they've been talking about it it feels like this is the exact conclusion they want people to come to, they want to hype up their game after all. So much of Dread's PR feels like they're just running down a list of known concerns and trying to manage expectations.


Practical-Parsley

I must say after all the rumours and fables back in the day, to see what Dread has ultimately become is just a fair bit underwhelming


TSPhoenix

The vaguely defined, theoretical dreamed-up version of a game is always going to beat reality, so I don't think it's really fair to judge this game against that. I get not wanting to show too much, but between being an early area in the game (and those tend to be boring), the somewhat sterile visuals, non-audible music and so on, it didn't really make a great first showing. But based on what we've seen nothing jumped out to me as particularly exciting, but Metroidvanias are largely about execution rather than doing something novel so I'm just going to wait and see. I hope it can impress, because there is a lot of competition in the genre now and this is one of the few titles in said genre that is asking for the full $60, so I think they have a lot of convincing to do.


PokecheckHozu

> My guess would be that it involves EMMI AI being more involved than it was in the SA-X. After realizing how limiting/poor the SA-X chase AI actually can be, I'd believe it. In the second Sector 2 chase encounter, you can get it to repeatedly jump over your head by shooting the missile block, then one block under it, then morph in the hole you just made.


LFiM

The SA-X is even more underwhelming when you realize it exists purely as scripted encounters. Near the endgame, Adam says there are multiple copies of it pursuing you, but you will *never* encounter any of them roaming around.


AkiWar

I think it’s the EMMI. Since supposedly Dread looked extremely similar to Fusion, with some reporters confusing it as a Fusion port. They wanted Dread to be a handheld game, but I guess the DS in its first try didn’t have enough power for the AI. And the second try had it neither


DreamVagabond

I like Super Metroid Samus, she speaks the right amount and lets the action do the rest.


MM487

One interesting thing about this series is that this is the fifth game and all five have been on different consoles/handhelds.


0nXYZ

If they bundled the first 4 as a preorder bonus I would break my no pre order rule. There is a lot of story between 1-4 that I’ve forgotten.


AreYouOKAni

Is there really? **NEStroid**: Bounty hunter Samus arrives on Zebes to find it overrun by space pirates and their leader Mother Brain. She proceeds to shoot everything in the face and leaves. * **Zero Mission**: Same thing as the NEStroid, but this time we learn that Samus had grown up on Zebes with now extinct Chozos after her parents had been killed by Ridley. Also, there's now a stealth section at the end of the story where you can't shoot anything in the face. Luckily, then you find another power suit and shoot everyone in the face anyway. **Return of Samus:** Samus goes to the Metroid homeworld, shoots every Metroid in the face and leaves with the last baby Metroid. * **AM2R:** Same basic plot but expanded upon — you find out what happened to the previous teams sent to SR388, as well as get more lore on the Chozos. * **Samus Returns:** Same basic plot but there are new side stories about Chozos, as well as some teases to Dread — like having evidence that Chozos had been killed by one of their own. Also, for some reason there's Ridley again. **Super Metroid**: Baby Metroid had been stolen by Ridley, so Samus goes back to Zebes and once again shoots everything in the face. And then Mother Brain kills the baby Metroid, Samus goes completely nuts and shoots her in the face HARD. **Fusion**: Samus leads a team of Federation scientists to SR388, where she is infected by the X-parasite. She is saved by injecting Metroid DNA into her, but her suit is now under alien control — it goes nuts and kills everyone except Samus and ~~Sakamoto~~ Adam, the station's AI. Adam turns out to be based on Samus' former CO. She once again shoots everything in the face and escapes with Adam — but not before learning that Federation is growing their own Metroids.


AsterBTT

A slight correction - Adam is not the station AI in Fusion, but rather an AI gifted to Samus at the beginning of the mission that serves as a guide. It's the reason why Adam is still with Samus in Dread; it's still installed in her ship. Otherwise, that's pretty accurate. Most of mainline Metroid's story is hidden in the manga, and in Other M. The Prime games have WAY more story to them, comparatively.


hutre

1 and 3 is already on their subscription service. I would love a port of Samus Returns though even if it is a 3ds port


themosquito

What’s that? Release ports of all four for $40 each? Well if you say so… :P


ffgod_zito

All this time in development and the graphics/art style/backgrounds look nowhere near as nice or beautiful or advanced as say an Ori and the will of the wisps or Hollow knight. It just looks so...bland and basic.


SuspiciousInterest

What you're seeing has only been in development since Samus Returns came out probably. It's a shame Nintendo won't give Metroid a bigger budget but it never sold well especially in Japan.


ffgod_zito

It’s really interesting that Metroid and castlevania pretty much pioneered an entire genre that’s still going strong today (easily the best 2D genre around) And Nintendo treats Metroid like a second hand franchise. Even the Prime games are heralded as GOATs


Irishman318

They never really sold particularly well, so why invest in something that may not even give you your money back? Hopefully it's received and sells well enough to justify investing into the franchise further.


TSPhoenix

> so why invest in something that may not even give you your money back? Because you want to. We didn't get three Pikmin games because it was a financially wise usage of money and Miyamoto's time, we got them because it was the only usage of Miyamoto's time he himself was interested in. The Nintendo franchises that don't get a lot of time under the sun, it is usually because there is a lack of internal demand for it.


Irishman318

The reason why there is a lack of internal demand is because they see a lack of external demand. Metroid is more popular in the west than in Japan, and even then, it still doesn’t make it a hit.


TSPhoenix

Maybe now under Furukawa, but for most of Iwata's tenure the products they chose to develop and the choices they made don't line up with that interpretation.


Irishman318

It also helps that they restructured their development teams near the end of Iwata's life to make collaboration with third parties easier.


thedoomstar

There are tons of extemely successful metroidvanias dont you think that maybe nintendo has left money on the table by releasing shovelware with metroid's name on it?


hacktivision

That was the case with Tropical Freeze vs Rayman Legends (or Returns vs Origins) and it was still a highly rated game.


ARUKET

The graphics are definitely nothing to write home about but I do like that the 3D allows them to do really dynamic and cinematic stuff that seamlessly blends with the gameplay. That was something really cool in Samus Returns and in all the trailers for this game. Not sure it's worth the tradeoff but it is something.


dammets

Exactly!


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ffgod_zito

I think it’s more the art style. The switch could run ori and does run hollow knight perfectly well.


thepoe

So far, none of the 2D iterations have even held a candelight to Super Metroid and that trend doesn't look like it'll change with this game. Still buying it day one.


JamSa

I think Zero Mission was probably a little better than Super. But even so, Samus Returns is a solid game. I'm fine with Dread being exactly that good but with scary murder robots.


Sonicfan42069666

Zero Mission's great. I still like Super Metroid a bit better but Zero Mission holds up beautifully. Fusion and Samus Returns are fantastic too. Super Metroid set a high bar, but I think every Metroid sidescroller released since (Other M isn't strictly a sidescroller ;) ) meets that bar, even if they don't surpass it.


Bread_Truck

I agree. Zero Mission is my fav. And while Fusion and the 3DS Remake aren’t as good as Super Metroid, I still prefer any of them to the Prime games.


JamSa

They're not really comparable. Prime's so good because it's not really comparable to anything, back then or since.


Bread_Truck

That’s nonsense. It’s a Metroid game in 3D. Of course I’m allowed to casually compare it to 2D Metroid games in a video games forum about Metroid games. Saying they’re not comparable to anything sounds like you just don’t want to discuss them at all. You can compare them to thousands of games.


JamSa

Ok sure they're comparible but not exactly in a fun rating kind of way. Prime has a literal extra dimension, and is an FPS. I'm not comparing Super Mario Bros and Mirrors Edge against each other either. Prime transcends (or sidesteps) the Metroidvania genre and becomes a different kind of game, but it's a genre we don't have a name for because the Prime trilogy are the only games in it.


Stibben

I think Retro calls the genre First Person Adventure (FPA).


scorchedneurotic

System Shock


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System Shock is missing all the platforming and world exploring that the Prime games have. Prime having immersive sim elements does not make it an immersive sim


scorchedneurotic

System Shock has * exploration (most definitely) * Interconnected map * "ability/item gates" * Environmental Storytelling and logs * light platforming (Jet boots trivialize that part, still there nonetheless). If we ought to use 3D, First Person, and a "Metroid-like structure/design" then System Shock did just that. **System Shock goddammit!** >!Not even going to touch the dumb can of worms that is game genres (they're duuuuuuumb)!<


[deleted]

Zelda is now an immersive sim and a metroidvania Dead space is an immersive sim Dark souls is an immersive sim


Bread_Truck

It’s an FPS. You said so in the first paragraph. It also has a lot of Metroid mechanics in it. Just because there aren’t other games that are exactly like the Metroid Prime games in every single way doesn’t mean it’s a new genre or can’t be compared to any other game in history.


TheHeadlessOne

It's technically first person and you shoot, but your method of interaction is highly different- locking on eliminates the need to aim, gun choice is based primarily on puzzle solutions (match purple beam to purple enemy), every attack is either physical or projectile (no hitscan), and the bulk of the playtime in any room is solving simple spatial awareness puzzles. It's gameplay is closer to a first person Zelda with platforming than a Halo, Half-life, or System Shock. Prime 3 reemphasized shooting fundamentals and put you into more consistent Gunfire heavy segments. I won't say it wasn't a FPS to begin with- I think by their nature genres are inclusionary rather than exclusionary- But I understand why someone wouldnt find the fps label alone sufficient EDIT: I'd say Prime is as much an FPS as a game like Portal or Elder SCrolls. I would never deny those games are first person shooters- they're first person perspective, you shoot things by aiming your mouse and clicking on a target- but I think calling either of them *merely* first person shooters misses out on what the games are trying to do


Bread_Truck

I never said it’s only an FPS. It has tons of genres. I was responding to a person who said it can’t be compared to any Metroid game or any other game in history because I said I like the 2D games more. All I’m saying is when talking about which Metroid games you like in an online forum, it’s OK consider the 2D games and the Prime games and the other commenter told me I couldn’t, which is absurd.


Haku219

In the same way you had Castlevania and Metroid, you have Dark Souls and the like and Metroid Prime. And in both instances the former came out with better level design with less tedious backtracking, better atmosphere, and better combat and general game design.


wh03v3r

Uhhh... what? That's certainly an opinion alright.


Haku219

Yes.


Makorus

Why are you comparing Dark Souls to MP lmao where did Dark Souls come from


Haku219

I explained where it came from. That's what my comment said.


Makorus

Would you compare Mario Odyssey to Super Mario Bros 2?


Bread_Truck

If we’re talking about which Mario games we like, then of course I would.


[deleted]

Honestly? I think Zero Mission does a much better job at being a Metroid game than Super. Super is still great, but its very clear that the game is designed around "reach a dead end and go all the way back" in *many* areas. It's the same problems people have with Prime 1 And Fusion, despite being fairly linear, is still incredibly enjoyable to this day. It brought all the good parts of action in Metroid games


WeedVegeta69

I dunno, after replaying Super recently I still find myself preferring the GBA games. They just feel a little more tight to me, Super always felt slower and clunkier.


TheYango

There's a romhack that alters Super's physics and controls to be more similar to the GBA games, and it's my preferred way to play Super at this point.


spaceborn

Absolutely, those games felt perfect to play on the GBA. Granted Fusion does have some whack art design compared to the rest of the series. It also suffers from being a pre SP title in that because of the lack of a back light, the colors were turned brighter and more vivid to be more visible.


Brainwheeze

I quite like the look of Fusion's boss designs though.


Breffest

Yeah everything looks messed up in a good way


iguessthiswasunique

I’m glad I’m not the only one turned off by Fusion’s pixel art. [Zero Mission](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/metroid/images/c/c4/Kraid_%28Zero_Mission_Animation%29.gif/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/300?cb=20190509144249) is unreal compared to [Super Metroid.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/metroid/images/b/b8/Kraid_16-bit.gif/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/210?cb=20100430141503)


tkzant

I feel like Fusion looks “off” because it was previously the only title to go in a different direction visually and story wise. Everything since then (outside of the Prime trilogy) has been fairly derivative of the Super Metroid art direction.


WhichEmailWasIt

Higher skill floor but also higher skill ceiling. If you just want a straight playthrough the GBA games are "tighter". The physics you can pull off in Super though are ridiculous.


Locclo

I didn’t play Super until much later (I never had a SNES) and I was really thrown off by needing to toggle between all your different weapons. I really, really like that in the GBA games, all you have to do to fire a missile is hold R and keep shooting. It’s the main reason I beat Super once and have played Fusion and Zero Mission multiple times.


samili

I feel the same, I prefer larger worlds with more exploration with a lot of unknowns. GBA Metroids were more of a defined adventure. I want something on the Super Metroid, Hollow Knight scale. Dread seems more like Fusion. I’ll still love any Metroid experience, I just hope this brings more 2D successors.


[deleted]

They hated Jesus because he told the truth. Sorry you were punished for being right. Although I do think ZM and Fusion do hold a candlelight towards SM but SM is still the superior game even to this day.


thepoe

Cheers man, they're all incredible games but Super Metroid will always be on another level - the atmosphere, artwork, music, bosses, scenario, every single element coalesces together so harmoniously; those first moments when Samus lands on Zebes, 16-bit thunder rumbling in the background... I get goosebumps just thinking about it. Truly my favorite game of all time.


ir_Pina

I think all 2d Metroid games are as good as eachother. Best one being am2r.


jinreeko

Fusion and Zero Mission were excellent


thekoggles

Take your nostalgia glasses off, it may still hold up today, but by no means is it better than the other 2D games. It's incredibly clunky and simultaneously shows its age and design flaws. Still good game, but heavily overrated.


Reporting4Booty

I played Zero Mission before Super Metroid and played Super Metroid for the first time in 2016 and found it to be much better overall. Is it that hard to believe that people have a legitimate preference for Super Metroid?


kippythecaterpillar

move on gramps your angst is showing


Super_Whack

Color me skeptical that a 2D platformer is worth a full AAA price tag. An indie studio can put out a very, very good 2D platformer so what are we getting for double the price? Am I to expect that this is multiple times more fun than my favorite 2D titles I don't have to pay 60 dollars for? Will there be a butt ton of content? I'm open to this game being good, I love most metroid games and metroidvania's are one of my go to genres. But yeah, skeptical.