T O P

lexili seleti: hole

lexili seleti: hole

HectorO760

I think a distinction between pit/cavity and perforation would be useful. We have "[goyu](http://menalar.globasa.net/eng/lexi/goyu)" for pit, cavity. For "perforation" it looks like "perfora" would be a good candidate (European, Indonesian, Turkish).


Gootube2000

I see what you mean. Would it be a general "open spot in a thin surface" vs "hollow in something deep" distinction like in Arabic or a strict "dent" vs "through-hole" distinction like in topology? Addendum: What would the mouth & throat be? The ear canal? The middle of a donut? If such a distinction is to be made, it would be ideal for the definition to be clear enough for someone to know the answer to these questions, seeing as all three are often called a "hole".


HectorO760

Great question! "goyu" means "dig" or "excavate", so this sense of "hole" would have to imply a hole made by taking something out, and in that sense it can't refer to a dent. We would need a different word for "dent". "perfora" would be any "through-hole" I think, which would include an "orifice". In that sense, mouth and ear canal would be "perfora".


Gootube2000

This video goes into proper detail of what I meant by the topological distinction of a "through-hole" [https://youtu.be/egEraZP9yXQ](https://youtu.be/egEraZP9yXQ) 20 minutes if you can spare the time. The point I mean is that if we define "perfora" as something has a linear way in and way out, the ear canal wouldn't fit this definition (not to mention, the necessity of knowing the finite-ness of a hole just to know what word to say seems a little unwieldy) Also, by the same logic that "goyu" would be unsuitable in that it implies a hole made by taking something out, wouldn't "perfora" be unsuitable in that "perforate" implies a hole made by puncturing a surface? "oreli perfora" sounds a lot more like a piercing than the little tunnel that ends in an ear drum.


HectorO760

I hear you... let me take a look. What would you suggest?


Gootube2000

The more I look into it the less certain I am. It does seem that languages such as Hindi don't distinguish between perforations and other holes. It's probably from my almost completely English-speaking perspective that something felt intuitively wrong about a word that also means "perforate" being used for any non-dug hole or opening even if not made by the process of "perforation". Even the English word "earhole" is ambiguously defined as either the opening to the canal and the hollow of a piercing. I'm not sure I even fully understood Arabic's distinction between "thakb" and "hufra", which just about perfectly resemble "perfora" and "goyu" as you described them, even down to the etymology of "piercing" and "digging". I rescind my concerns, "perfora" is a good word for "hole"


HectorO760

Interesting video. By the way, I had assumed all holes in the human body were through-holes, but I suppose they're not. Actually, I was going to suggest we do need another word for "hole" besides "goyu" and "perfora". It might be too strange for people to use "perfora" where there is no perforation or puncture per se, as in the hole of a donut, the hole/eye of needle, or even all holes in the human body, whether or not it's through-hole.