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John McCain welcomed home by President Nixon after 5 1/2 years of torture as a Vietnam POW in 1973

John McCain welcomed home by President Nixon after 5 1/2 years of torture as a Vietnam POW in 1973

totheman7

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t McCain refuse a chance to come home early? He choose to stay longer because he didn’t want special treatment for just being a high ranking Naval officers son


TheWorstRowan

They have a plaque or something you can read in Hanoi that mentions as he was a high ranking officer's son he was pushed to the front of the line with hostage trades. He refused and spent five and a half years in a situation I don't want to imagine, and was unable to fully move his arms for the rest of his life. For me he really embodies someone I didn't like, but could respect a hell of a lot.


AdministrativeBat364

what did they do to his arms?


gththrowaway

Hung him from them.


RAZR31

Tied them behind his back and then hoisted him to the air by his wrists. Dislocating his shoulders and tearing tendons. If you watch video footage of him waving or greeting people he is never really able to lift his arms above his shoulders/neck level because of all the damage.


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Askbozo

I was watching Unbroken about Japanese camps which it was based on a true story. I would have anger in me 24/7 until I murdered the guys who did that shit to me.


jestina123

That was the point, Japanese officers didn’t want their soldiers to even think about surrendering, because they’ve already mutilated their own POWs.


hafdedzebra

If a POW fell during a March, the soldiers would cut off their calf muscles to take with them as food, leaving the guy with no use of his legs, bleeding to death in a ditch. The Japanese war crimes were not publicized much, as we decided to make a “model” of Japan. But they were, if possible, worse than the Germans. In one memorable incident, 4 American pilots were captured, vivisected in a surgical theater at Tokyo Medical school, then served to top military officials at a banquet, so that by eating the enemy, they would internalize their power or some such crazy shit. Absolutely fucked up fuckers.


Swimming__Bird

It's amazing to see all the fine art and delicate beauty of japan pre WW2 juxtaposed with the insane brutality of their war tactics for hundreds of years. The things their military and nobles did to their own people/rivals and then the Koreans is atrocious. Every culture has its dark period (U.S. has some darker than most in our relatively short history against natives and slaves) and reading on the previous few hundred years of theirs is interesting and haunting.


[deleted]

That was only half of the damage. He broke both of his arms upon ejecting out of his A-4 Skyhawk, and then was beaten with the butt of a gun after almost drowning inside of his parachute in the middle of a lake.


Alexi5onfire

According to the photo (and if you completely ignore McCain’s shaking hand) it almost looks like they engineered a new wrist and hand onto McCain, a la Jax from Mortal Kombat


Ok_Ad_2285

CHTST. I didn't like his party, platform, or policies, but I'd shake his hand. He was granted a privilege based on his parentage, and he put his own life at risk to save the lives of others. I like that.


wava66

In recent years it wasn't his party. He was civil and cooperative while the rest of the party turned into douches. He and Mitt Romney are part of the old guard, those that strived for compromise instead of digging in their heals and obstructing any progress.


shoonseiki1

Man today's politics are so disheartening compared to just 10 years ago


008janebond

Even ten years ago McCain was head and shoulders above the rest of the Republicans. I’ll never forget at a 2008 campaign event a lady called Obama an “Arab” and McCain stopped her cut her off and said Obama was a decent family man and they have disagreements on political issues. I may have not agreed with him on much, but I never had a doubt he was a decent human.


Kakatus100

Republicans put forth the Family Assistance plan in the 70s which was like a UBI for a family unit. Politics will just get more and more polarized and disfunctional if we don't change the voting system to allow for better and more moderate/functional candidates. And by moderate I mean having the best of both parties ideas and removing the worst attributes of both parties, not compromise.


Ok_Ad_2285

When I first started paying attention to politics I felt I was pretty center, but I couldn't align with what I can only describe as anti-progress. It pushed me way to the left.


Nonions

They wanted to govern, to do so in a way I wouldn't like but to govern nonetheless. The modern GOP does not want to govern. They want to win to stack the courts, and give themselves and the richest Americans massive tax cuts and subsidies. They even formally refused to submit a policy platform for the 2020 election. They simply said 'we support Donald Trump's America First agenda', which was never coherent to begin with.


SoundOfTomorrow

I don't think it was even an agenda. I think even the gay agenda has more planning in it.


dingusduglas

They don't have any constructive policy goals anymore. There isn't anythihg they want to DO, they just want to obstruct, undo, maintain, and reject anything liberals want to do.


Brain_f4rt

He even corrected the person at one of his Rallys or Town Halls as he was running for president when she said something false trying to put down Obama. He told her no that's not true and that Obama is a great man. You'll never see that from anyone in today's piece of shit GOP.


arrulf

He also ran adds where they darkened Obamas skin and called him Hussein every change he had. Said that Obama was friends with terrorist. The campaign gave Palin free rains... His campaign gave Trump so many ideas.


Brain_f4rt

Fair point I suppose..though it's hard to know his total involvement with those decisions. If he endorsed it though then I guess that's just as bad. At some point you figure they have to appeal to their lowest common denominators from their base..except it also happens to be the GOP's largest demographic is full of lowest common denominators. I think at the end of the day he was probably a decent man. At the very least..miles ahead of anything they're pushing now days as it pertains to governing with any sort of decency.


RussellZiske

\*Except when they ran against Obama.


Jay_Louis

I wish he'd left the Republican Party sooner after it went full Russian treason, but at least he shut down their attempt to gut the Affordable Care Act before passing away. He was the last Republican.


Hairyhalflingfoot

The last true republican. A man who built his own legacy regaurdless of his background


Rat_Salat

Romney and McCain had the misfortune of going up against a generational political talent in Obama. I wonder what the Republican Party would look like today if one of them had won.


drunkcowofdeath

Also I wonder what the democratic party would have looked like if they won. 16 years out of power would turn the party on its head


lacrimosa122

Yea, just to provide more context, the Vietnamese were allowing that early release for propaganda purposes and as evidence to other US prisoners that those with high-ranking, powerful families could get preferential treatment so they'd be resentful. They also provided him with medical treatment they'd previously refused only after finding out who his father was, but when he refused the early release, they amped up his torture. They were also torturing other POWs to get anti-US "confessions" and statements out of them.


Hairyhalflingfoot

He is a man I would invite to a cook out. While I never agreed with his policies I respect him as a hero and a soldier.


Oblong_Belonging

Little sticking point for me because I was one myself, but McCain was a Sailor, not Soldier.


cjo582

Right? Staying humble and grounded will always earn respect for me.


yajse

I visited Hanoi a few years ago and there's a museum that is a replica of the prison he was in (the actual one was destroyed). They had a replica of the cell he was in and it was tiny with no bed/cot, and a cement floor that was V-shaped and angled downward toward the bars/door - to ensure he could never be comfortable.


Anotherdumbawaythrow

He was in that for 5 1/2 years? Doesn't make sense to me how he came out of that not damaged to the point where he couldnt function in society, let alone become a senator and almost president? How does someone bounce back after that type of trauma?


mark_lee

Well, his arms didn't work properly anymore, but we don't really know what other physical damage he suffered, nor do we know if he woke up panicked every night or couldn't see or hear certain things without a panic attack.


Luke90210

Need to point out McCain was in very poor physical shape from the plane crash and torture. With the poor medical care he had a significant chance of dying in the POW camp by refusing to leave early.


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0wen_Gravy

Such big words from a cowardly rich boy fuck that was too scared to go so he paid his doctor to write a note. What a fucking disgrace. Thinking about donald trump and his supporters throwing the word patriot around the way they do makes my fucking head spin and breaks my heart. John McCain was alot of things and was overly conservative for my taste, but a loser was not one of those things. He was a man of unflappable honor. I miss him. I miss his Republican party compared to the quagmire we have now.


lacrimosa122

Gone are the ages of elections where we'd have been okay regardless of which side of the line the president came from. Now any old fool can come in and run and they'd have a chance at being elected.


joeitaliano24

I’d take 30 consecutive years of Dictator McCain over four years of DT


Liquor_Walrus

DT does NOT like his army people captured.


wilywillone

I truely believe DT lost Arizona specifically because he couldn't keep his mouth shut about McCain.


AnotherLightInTheSky

As if he could keep his mouth shut about anything at all He looked small next to someone honourable


cjo582

I have family that relocated to AZ... let's just say I can confirm this. I wonder if it chaps DT's backside that Biden has appointed Cindy McCain to UN's Ambassador of the Food & Agriculture agency. DT mocked war hero (not going to argue semantics of that war), and was so petty, but President Biden will put country/world ahead of party and look for the best of the best.


Berandiepe

Granted I’m not from Arizona (or even the US), but i think there’s a lot more to it than that. It seems like Arizona going blue is a long term demographic trend, due to the large and growing Mexican-American population and the increasing population of Tucson and Phoenix. Pissing on McCain probably just hastened the inevitable. As did pissing off the Navajo by sending them bodybags when they asked for PPE.


joeitaliano24

I love to imagine Donald Trump in that same scenario. The only time he’s been to Hanoi is to bang hookers in one of his shittily made hotels


cjo582

and they weren't able to restrain him like he would have wanted, because his hands are just so tiny.


dirtydownstairs

seriously one of the most asinine things he ever said, and he had some doozies


GMN123

DT should have gone and showed them how then.


willowgardener

I mean, unlike Trump, McCain actually respected the idea of democracy, so I suspect he would not become a dictator.


rafapova

Why don’t you like him? Are you just saying you disagree with some of his politics or you actually have a problem with something about him?


CyLoboClone

Savings and loan scandal for me.


J_G_B

A lot of folks forget about this...


Finn_3000

Yea i strongly dislike the republican party and all it stands for, but mccain was alright.


DamonLazer

Wait...the Republican Party stands for something?


AmericanScream

He was against torture; then he flip flopped and supported it under the bush adminstration. He was against the Affordable Care Act, then he was for it, everybody cheered him, then a week later he voted against it again. He served his wife divorce papers while she was in the hospital for cancer. He always was a horrible human being who didn't really stand for anything consistent and was willing to change his tune if it served his interests.


Ignore_Me-

Yeah all these people in this thread saying they sure respect the hell out of him is hilarious. He became a leading figure in a party that starts for-profit wars that devastate generations. It's like saying they respect an armed robber because a shop owner caught him and beat the shit out of him, but did the honorable thing by letting another robber take the first ambulance to the hospital.


vorpalsnickersnack

Let’s also remember he happily dealt with al qaeda and isis in order to further political ends.


AmericanScream

yea, there's a huge list of shady things he's done.. we have to make sure over time this doesn't get erased


dronepore

High ranking officer is a bit of an understatement. His father was Commander in Chief of the European fleet at the time of his capture and then during his captivity became Commander in Chief of all forces navel, air and land forces in the Vietnam theater. It would be like Eisenhower's son was being held by Nazi Germany.


cjo582

I never knew that was the reason he refused, or why the offer was made to him. Wow. Add posthumous respect point for him in my book. Agree, there are definitely things I didn't agree with him on, but I respect him.


tsohgmai

IIRC there were other prisoners that had been there longer and should have gone home before him. Somewhat of a code among them.


Tulkes

It is actually usually taught as part of the POW Code of Conduct, built into the language of two of the middle articles regarding special favors/parole as well as keeping faith with fellow prisoners, leaving when it's your time in the line. Source: am Army


tsohgmai

Thanks! I didn’t know enough to be specific. Thank you for your service!


JeffFromSchool

>because he didn’t want special treatment for just being a high ranking Naval officers son It was less that, and more so he didn't want to leave his comrades behind. If he were by himself, he likely would have been home earlier. It was more of a "We all go, or none of us go" kind of deal. And he wasn't just the son of a high ranking officer. He was the son of the chief commander of all US military operations in the Pacific. His father was as high up on the ladder as you can possibly get.


Luke90210

The code was First to go in, First to leave. Kudos to him for respecting that code at risk of dying in a POW camp.


Cantfighttheceiling

Iirc All POWs were encouraged (forced?) to do that so that the enemy couldn’t use ranking/status as a bargaining chip. They were told to tell their captures if I am to be released it will be in the order which I was captured in.


wonderhorsemercury

yeah, you're not supposed to accept special treatment or parole. The best exception to this is the POW that was pretending to be retarded, and he was ordered to accept it by the higher ranking POWs so he could tell the world how they were treated, and I suppose because refusing it would have risked his cover of being mentally challenged.


tahitianhashish

I've also heard that story, but am also too lazy to confirm.


spastical-mackerel

McCain had a rep in the Navy as a cocky asshole who pushed the limits in his flying but a solid pilot. He was one of my Dad's instructors in flight school in the mid-60s. His grandad was a legendary carrier task force commander in WW2 and Daddy was an Admiral and CinC US Forces in Vietnam. He was wounded during the famous fire aboard USS ~~Enterprise~~ Forrestal trying to rescue a fellow pilot from the flames. After his shoot down, near death during capture and imprisonment the Vietnamese figured out who his father was and offered him early release for the propaganda value. Despite being in terrible shape from his bailout injuries and the generally hellish conditions in the Hanoi Hilton he turned them down, stating he'd only accept release when every prisoner who'd been there longer was released. That wasn't an empty gesture, it cost him five years of unremitting torture and deprivation. To his dying day he was unable to lift his arms above his shoulders due to injuries inflicted during torture. Despite this, it was McCain who spearheaded the US _rapprochement_ with Vietnam, even traveling to the country to cement the new relationship. Because it was the right thing to do and in the best interests of his country. His last act was to prevent Mitch McConnell from destroying the ACA by casting the deciding vote on the Senate floor despite being near death from an aggressive brain tumor. Not because he was a fan of the legislation, he opposed it. But he felt that McConnell was violating the norms and traditions of the Senate with his parliamentary shenanigans and thus jeopardizing that institution and the country as a whole. A principled stand. Thumbs downed that shit right to McConnell's face before the Senate lectern. I didn't agree with him on much and find plenty to dislike about some of his conduct and decisions. But if I'm ever tested as he was I will hold him in my mind as an example and pray that I find the strength to conduct myself as he did.


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Bikinigirlout

Also all the cheers from the democrats was the cherry on top. Elizabeth Warren was the first one to cheer when that happened followed by Chuck Schumer and Mazie Hirono.


CantaloupeCamper

> a cocky asshole who pushed the limits in his flying I think that's kinda the guy the Navy picks for combat pilots to some extent.


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spastical-mackerel

I'm very glad for you and your family. Unfortunately I'm not sure McCain did what he did because he believed in the ACA per se. But he did value deliberative governance over pure party loyalty. And frankly anyone that cockblocks McConnell is OK in my book


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Thorgvald-of-Valheim

Wait, are you claiming John McCain caused the fire on the USS Forrestal, and not a rocket misfire? This is some /r/conspiracy level stuff here.


aloysiuslamb

This is a semi-popular conspiracy unfortunately. At least popular enough that some yahoo will throw it out there any time McCain is mentioned on reddit.


Thorgvald-of-Valheim

Well... i mean.... *informal reports says*... that's pretty damning evidence. Hard to argue with that. I guess we'll just disregard all of the photos, video, and contradictory eye-witness testimony.


Pansarmalex

"Informal reports". It's been debunked over and over.


iSaidItOnReddit85

“If he was a real hero, he wouldn’t have gotten caught” —- some dumbass


MithrandirLogic

For how pro-military/service/duty much of the right wing is these days that comment just goes to show it’s politics over integrity. Not that it’s new, just this comment really hits that point home.


InsertCleverNickHere

Party over country. My team at all costs.


1776isthefix

You say that like McCain wasn't an offender until he met a conservative president that would t let him be a war hawk.


huntimir151

Its not that he wouldn't let him be a hawk. Its that he said shit like " I prefer the heroes who don't get captured," which is a bitchboy trying to sound like a tough guy. Trump wasn't some advocate for peace there, he was just a fat silly bully.


xclame

Just like how they mocked the parents of the gold star soldier. The Republicans don't actually care about the military people, they care about the military structure because it makes them and their friends a lot of money. If they cared about the military people, they wouldn't be so eager to send them off to foreign countries to go die. They only care about the military because it's a useful pawn for them.


Rizzpooch

Just like how they’ve turned on General Miley for saying that US Military academies are universities and should teach their students to think critically


Exquisite_Poupon

Conservatives only care about what liberals oppose. I imagine if liberals adopted “Don’t Tread on Me” as a sort of civil rights message then the conservatives would rip that shit off their mega-trucks as fast as they put them on.


froggie_69

You must be behind on the times. The right hates the military at the moment because the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff said it's a good idea to educate people on the history of American racism the effects thereof.


willyc3766

I don’t really subscribe to either party as I think they’re both out for their best interest and I have views that I share with both sides. However, as a veteran, the remarks about McCain made me write DT off forever. Even though I didn’t agree with a lot of McCain’s politics he was an honorable person who didn’t deserve to have those things said about him….especially from a pudgy spoiled brat that never sacrificed a single second of his time to help out anyone else in this world. How my fellow veterans supported him after that is beyond me. But then again, not all of my veteran buddies put a lot of thought into such things…or most things.


PrivateIsotope

I remember hearing about that and thinking, "He's sunk. There's no way you can be a Republican and badmouth a veteran. He wont last the weekend without having to drop out of the race." Many Republicans were cold on McCain, and of course, the Democrats werent fans, but everyone kind of agreed that his service record was unquestionable. Dude had abscesses the size of softballs under his arms, and couldnt lift his arms straight up above his head for the rest of his life. He endured torture for this country, whether or not you agree with the Vietnam War, or even the military in general - he did what he thought he was supposed to do and suffered for it. I've never been about Vietnam bona fides, or against draft dodgers, but to hear a draft dodging guy who said to Howard Stern that dodging STD's in the 80's was like his own Vietnam experience say that McClain wasnt a hero, that was beyond the pale. But guess what? Some mealy mouthed vets got on TV and still supported him with some excuse or another. And the Republicans forgave him. And then he did more outrageous stuff, and they forgave him. And then this audio surfaces about him grabbing vaginas and his religious running mate has to even step back and see if he wants to keep running with him, but......you guessed it, he choked it down too and kept supporting him. We've always been told that politicians dont always believe what they say, and I believed it......but I never really thought it was that bad. Like, not ever. Could you imagine Barack Obama running for office and saying, "That communist Muhammad Ali isnt a hero, he's a draft dodger that deserved to be in prison for the rest of his life," while imitating his Parkinsons, or saying "Yeah, Michelle didnt have sex until we got married, and that's the problem with these young women nowadays. You gotta grab them by their panties and put a lock on them. They don't know how to manage their own bodies. But if you act like a man, instead of like a pansy, you can make your wives and daughters do anything." and the democrats going, "Oh yes, that's very good, that's the guy we want representing us!"


SaffellBot

>you guessed it, he choked it down too and kept supporting him. The most important attribute for being a republican.


PrivateIsotope

You're so right.


P35-HiPower

Trump was not fit to polish McCain's boots. I know that, and I'm Canadian.


Rubberbabybuggybum

The thing is all the reasons you hate Trump is the reason they love him. He pisses you off. He disgusts you. And they LOVE that.


haversack77

God, even Nixon had more decency than Trump. What a disgrace that man was.


FLfap

Who woulda thunk anyone could have been worse that Nixon?


killergoat72

Nixon created the EPA. All people remember/hear about is the scandal but that's not his whole legacy. Nixon isn't even bottom 5.


Pinwurm

Also was a very vocal supporter of universal healthcare (started the War on Cancer), signed in Kidneycare, oversaw desegregation and the Apollo missions, lowered the voting age to 18, and gave Native Americans tribal sovereignty. If he wasn’t a batshit racist paranoid lunatic that threw black people in jail for minor drug offenses, he might’ve been one remembered as one of the most progressive and important presidents we’ve ever had.


reverendbeast

He was dazzlingly feminine at private parties.


PancAshAsh

Nixon was a conniving piece of shit but he didn't do everything wrong. For instance, he resigned and didn't put his party in the position of having to choose party over ethics.


Ranger_Prick

No, not bottom 5. Definitely bottom third, though. Watergate aside - and it's hard to put it aside because it's a severe abuse of presidential power - Nixon had his struggles with Vietnam both home (anti-war crackdowns, Pentagon Papers) and abroad (expanding the war into surrounding nations like Cambodia and Laos), federal drug enforcement (he founded the DEA and coined the term "War on Drugs"), and energy/economic crises throughout his presidency. The founding of the EPA & OSHA and strengthening diplomatic ties with China in the midst of the Cold War were definitely positive steps, though, so he certainly rates above presidents whose terms were almost all bad.


CornCheeseMafia

Yeah if we go by “was the juice worth the squeeze” metrics, we actually got *some* good out of his presidency. As much as people like to criticize them, the EPA and OSHA are actually pretty outstanding legacies by any measure. They’re responsible for a **lot** of overall harm reduction over the years so as much of a shitbag Nixon was, there were some good effects mixed in with the tons of bad. The orange juice we got this time around was mostly just bitter rind flavor and not worth it.


IdontGiveaFack

Also normalizing relations with China, although one could argue that is starting to come back to bite us.


monty_kurns

He didn't really have a choice in normalizing relations with China. The rest of the world did and we were the last big holdout for recognizing mainland China over Taiwan. The only thing was any politician who would have done it would have been viciously criticized from both sides for being weak on communism. Nixon had the strongest anti-communist credentials so when he did it nobody could have criticized him for being soft on communism. It also had the benefit of easing tensions with the USSR which was his main goal in the process.


SoundOfTomorrow

Nixon was forced by hand to make it. Environmentalists were purposely pushing it for the start of 1970 as a start of a new decade.


ZBeebs

GOP: Hold my beer…


plentyoffishes

Not defending Trump but the dude started the reckless war on drugs which has destroyed lives unnecessarily for decades. Even horrible Trump didn't do anything quite to this scale.


ottothesilent

Other than worsening a pandemic more deadly to US citizens than World War 2?


TurrPhennirPhan

To be fair, Trump definitely accelerated and mainstreamed fascism in America and he's only been out of office for half a year: it's difficult to know what the long term damage to our nation/democracy his influence will ultimately be. I'd like to think we're moving on as a country, but we're very clearly not. His follower's support and belief in his brand of bullshit hasn't waivered in the slightest, there's still tons of Trump signs and flags *everywhere...* shit, my neighbor put up a brand new Trump sign *last week*. A group of far right extremists stormed the Capitol in an attempt to overthrow our government, and the GOP have done all they can to sweep it out of the public memory as quickly as possible and downplay it as much as possible. I'd love to be optimistic, but realistically I think we're going to be dealing with the repercussions of that orange narcissistic pile of fetid cat diarrhea for years if not decades to come.


Luke90210

> To be fair, Trump definitely accelerated and mainstreamed fascism in America and he's only been out of office for half a year: it's difficult to know what the long term damage to our nation/democracy his influence will ultimately be. The one not enough people recognize is how much damage he did to our governmental institutions. Every year the US has to recruit top people from the best schools who can make far more in private industry. And Trump treated the top people he had like crap. The damage that does could damage the US for decades.


SquirrellyBusiness

Friends of mine in alphabet institutional civil careers in DC are saying it will take 25 years to undo this damage, between the dismantling and disabling of the institutions themselves to the bleeding of talent and tenured, skilled staff from their echelons.


LadyChatterteeth

And still is.


MaeBelleLien

*waves arms around mocking crutches*


NeverackWinteright

Lol.


souljump

Remember back then when we all thought: okay that’s it, he definitely can’t get away with saying this one thing…right? Right guys?


Dusbowl

If that thought was turned into a drinking game....


DerrainCarter

Some *draft-dodging* dumbass nonetheless


BizzyM

Private Bonespurs


Comprehensive_One_46

Never even made it to private.


WAR_T0RN1226

Dodging the draft was the only good thing he did lol


scough

That pompous manchild wouldn't have lasted 24 hours in Vietnam. McCain was one of the last Republicans I didn't agree with politically but respected them as a person. I honestly can't think of a single one that's left today.


sctran

Exactly you could disagree with his politics, but had to respect him as a person. Or at least so I thought until 45 did what he did. Refusing to lower the flag, covering of the ships name etc...


SaltMineSpelunker

How does McCain simultaneously looks younger and also still old AF at the same time.


terminaljive

5 years of torture will do a number on you. I think many people would grey prematurely just by being caught by the enemy.


SaltMineSpelunker

I mean I am a big sissy. I’d just die.


shualton

Being under that kind of stress for that long can age you physically a lot


Rocco_Mcgee

McCain looks a little like Steve Martin in the Jerk.


RichieAprilesJacket

Things are going to start happening to me now!


Rocco_Mcgee

“I wonder how Navin’s doing?” “Hey Navin! How you doing!?”


minnesotajersey

And then a draft dodger in office called him a loser. And the sycophants cheered.


phinbar

Really. Makes me so angry that so many people are, apparently fine, not only with Trump disparaging McCain's imprisonment in Vietnam, but also with him calling the US soldiers from WWII who are buried in France "suckers" and "losers." That last incident happened in 2020, just two months before the idiot lost the election that his cult is still convinced that he won.


marshallmellow

dodging the draft was the only cool thing that trump has ever done


kp120

Negative. Taking a stand against the draft like, say, Muhammad Ali, that's cool. Buying your way out of it? nope


kennytucson

I can abide by pacifism and conscientious objections (especially for Vietnam), but let’s not pretend it took that asshat any kind of moral courage or took any stand to get out of serving. Not to mention his “we need to go after their wives and children” rhetoric about the current conflicts in the Middle East.


DrMcMonkeyMcBean

I heard a certain someone with bone Spurs said this guy wasn’t any good. Personally I think he was one of the greatest Americans I will live to have seen in modern politics.


M1nd_Crime

I didn't like him. Until he in the middle of a speech stopped hecklers of his opponent who had beat him. Remember when politics weren't as much as a cluster fuck game....


BiteNuker3000

Remember when during that same campaign when his teams darkened obamas skintone on mailers and in ads on purpose to try and make him seem like a big scary black man?


BattyShrimpers

I may disagree with his politics but he was a classy guy deserving of praise.


plentyoffishes

Classy guy? He never met a war he didn't support. Not sure where you get this.


[deleted]

Geez all it takes for the left to embrace a war hawk like McCain is for him to oppose trump. Incredible.


lightningheels

> I may disagree with his politics but he was a classy guy deserving of praise. Somehow you read this and immediately jumped to Trump. You were so eager to claim Trump Derangement Syndrome you revealed you were the only one that had it.


SchwiftedMetal

I think that same guy was afraid of an eagle flapping its wings yet he talked shit about a man that withstood torture. Even American Eagles hate bone spur betty.


Forgetimore

Compared to the dumpster fire of today's US-American politics almost everyone who behaves respectfully and decent in a normal way seems like a great guy. It's also not like this isn't happening in other countries, too, but in the US it always seems to be a bit more extreme. I miss the times when people could have different opinions without it turning into a mud match.


lightningheels

> I miss the times when people could have different opinions without it turning into a mud match. In large part this *never* existed. The earliest presidential campaigns and debates were a cesspool.


Forgetimore

You're probably right. I don't live in the US so most of my exposure is through conventional media. I probably have a very warped impression of US politics. On the other hand so have most people in the US, too. The past was most likely not much better either, but there was no social media. The people were just not as much aware.


Agroskater

Is there any documentation as to what they actually did to him? Morbid curiosity


rasterbated

A brave warrior and a disappointing politician. Also Nixon, whose human suit wasn’t fitting very well that day.


ghosttrainhobo

He saved Obamacare. Millions of people would be uninsured right now if he hadn't stood up to his own party. Obamacare was within one vote of being overturned and it was his vote. That's why he's hated by the Republicans now.


plentyoffishes

One of those men was responsible for the endless, destructive war on drugs, the other one a key supporter of the endless, destructive war on terror.


Kered13

Funny how McCain didn't get any of this respect when he was running for President.


bustedbuddha

Everyone is so busy talking about him advocating bombing hospitals that they're forgetting he took bribes then claimed he didn't know it was wrong.


Cherrijuicyjuice

He was the last of a dying breed. One that puts country before politics. I fear that we may not see another like him in our lifetimes, and I say that as a steadfast liberal.


babygrenade

> One that puts country before politics. I'm not sure that's accurate. He struck me as very political. Sure he broke with the party occassionally, but I don't think think that was the norm.


Cherrijuicyjuice

I truly believe that he voted with his conscience. Most of the time he voted for conservative leaning policies because he was a conservative with conservative values. But I don’t think he ever voted against his values or his conscience in order to further his parties agenda.


babygrenade

He publicly pledged to block any Clinton supreme court picks if she won. Refusing to even vote on a supreme court pick in advance, without looking a merits of any specific pick hardly seems like a country over party position.


FridayMcNight

That’s because it’s 100% bullshit. He was a prototype of the modern GOP, from his “trading on the family name” days in the Navy, to his Keating 5 days, through his furrowed brow maverick republican days.


deviantbyblood

He advocated for the bombing of hospitals.


iSaidItOnReddit85

“One that puts country before politics” …(at the end of his political career/life) though


plentyoffishes

He put endless war before everything. Remember "Bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran"? Yeah that was your wonderful McCain.


BiteNuker3000

He voted with republicans more than 90% of the time. For millionaire tax cuts and more useless tanks and not fixing infrastructure. He was a ghoul.


rubmcdubs

As a Brit I don’t know a whole lot about American politics, but someone like Tammy Duckworth comes to mind.


kultronvii

Lmfao yeah dropping bombs on innocent people right? Keep cheering on war criminals


fretpound

JM “Do you think I could become a warmonger like you someday Mr President?” RMN “Son, if you put your mind to it you could become twice the warmonger I am.”


Storm-Kerr

Nixon was in Vietnam because he had an opportunity to make money. This picture shows just what it takes in America to be allowed into the club.


General_Orthopox

And then he decides. "Hm... lets go bomb some children in the middle east"


LockMarine

Many people don’t remember the good Nixon did while in office, as a republican he passed many laws that liberals would later celebrate. Here’s a list from the Nixon library. Richard Nixon’s Top Domestic and Foreign Policy Achievements [lister type=”count-compare” title=”Domestic Policy”] In 1973, President Nixon ended the draft, moving the United States Military to an all-volunteer force. Nixon founded the Environmental Protection Agency in 1970 as a response to the rising concern over conservation and pollution. The agency oversaw the passage of the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act and the Mammal Marine Protection Act. Nixon ushered in a new era of judicial restraint by appointing four Supreme Court Justices: Chief Justice Burger, Chief Justice Harry Blackmun, Chief Justice Lewis Powell and William Rehnquist, who was later appointed to Chief Justice by Ronald Reagan. Nixon dedicated a $100-million to begin the war on cancer, a campaign that led to the creation of national cancer centers and antidotes that helped fight the deadly disease. Nixon opened the doors for women in collegiate sports when he signed Title IX in 1972, a civil rights law preventing gender bias at colleges and universities receiving Federal aid. Nixon initiated and oversaw the peaceful desegregation of southern schools. Nixon welcomed the astronauts of Apollo XI home safely from the moon and oversaw every successful moon landing while in office. A great proponent of the 26th Amendment, Nixon lowered the voting age from twenty-one to eighteen, extending the right to vote to America’s youth. Nixon authorized the joint work between the FBI and Special Task Forces to effectively eliminate organized crime, resulting in over 2500 convictions by 1973. Nixon became the first President to give Native Americans the right to tribal self-determination by ending the policy of forced assimilation and returning their sacred lands. [/lister] [lister type=”count-compare” title=”Foreign Policy”] In 1972, President Nixon participated in the Strategic Arms Limitation Talks (SALT) with Soviet Secretary General Brezhnev as part of an effort to temper the Cold War through diplomatic dètente. Nixon signed the Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty, helping to calm U.S.-Soviet tensions by curtailing the threat of nuclear weapons between the world’s two superpowers. President Nixon was the first President to visit the People’s Republic of China, where he issued the Shanghai Communiquè, announcing a desire for open, normalized relations. The diplomatic tour de force brought more than a billion people out of isolation. Nixon signed the Paris Peace Accords in 1973, ending U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. In 1969, Nixon announced a groundbreaking foreign policy doctrine that called for the United States to act within its national interest and keep all existing treaty commitments with its allies. Nixon established a new relationship with the Middle East, eliminating Soviet dominance in the region. In honor of the POWs returning home from Vietnam, Nixon hosted the largest reception in White House history. In reaction to the oil embargo of 1973, Nixon initiated Project Independence, which set a timetable to end reliance on foreign oil by 1980. In 1970, President Nixon avoided a second Cuban Missile Crisis involving the Soviet submarine base by adhering to his policy of hard-headed dètente, an active rather than passive form of diplomacy. During the 1973 Yom Kippur War, Nixon supported Israel with massive aid, which Prime Minister Golda Meir later said saved her country.


Mahaloth

I disagree with him on policy, but he was a war hero. He had an opportunity to come home early, but would not take it until all the guys with him were released as well. "I prefer people who weren't captured," is such a damning quote, it is incredible the depths people will go to in order to elect a racist they like.


goodlovingonebad

This is why AZ flipped blue, Cindy McCain was so furious over that remark by Trump she campaigned for Biden, but I’m not into politics and I read this back in November.


kultronvii

Does a war hero drop bombs on innocent civilians? #brainwashed


wertyuish

That's what war is. That's why war is aweful. It's not like two armies meet in a open field miles away from civilians. Fights take place in cities and towns where people are.


Charlitos_Way

He wasn't too bad until he ran against Obama and brought Sarah Palin into national politics which led to the conspiracy theory garbage that engulfed the Republican Party with the Tea Party, Birthirism, and led the way for Donald Trump. At least he stood up to the monster he created after Trump was elected but it was far too little and too late.


BiteNuker3000

Look up the keating five and his bribery scandals


CappinPeanut

I did not vote for McCain, but he was an honorable man during that election cycle. When members of his crowd shouted disparaging things about Obama, he stopped them and defended Obama. McCain was not the problem, 40% of America is sick. Trump is a symptom of that sickness. Trump fed off that hatred, McCain stood up against it.


shadyshadok

Crazy peeps would have found a way anyway


Charlitos_Way

Tea Party and other Koch-funded astroturf-roots movements would have still happened to some degree and Obama was never going to be accepted by a large percentage of the country but I doubt Trump would have been president if Palin hadn't shown the Republican Party how popular that kind of "thinking" was...


SirAngusMcBeef

I hate to admit it but you’re right. We’re in the Information Age now, which means we’re also in the disinformation age. Conspiracies are no longer limited to weirdos with tinfoil hats - anybody with internet can get in on the action.


Rocky1963

I think she cost him the presidency


Charlitos_Way

I don't think he would have won with Joe Lieberman on the ticket either, but at least the Republican Party wouldn't have turned into what it is today, or at least not as quickly.


Turd_Ferguson_Wpg

Pretty unreal this guy was called a loser by Donald Trump. I can’t imagine Trump lasting 5 minutes in place where McCain was held.


FridayMcNight

Is the Megan McCain’s PR team at work?


berni4pope

Both of these men were garbage humans.


dinoomike

Interesting all the liberals hate John McCain until trump didn't like him now they love him


Marshmallow09er

I don’t agree with just about any of John McCain’s policies, nor do I like him as a politician. And I don’t love him just because trump said those things. But at the end of the day, it’s disgusting to make fun of the torture someone underwent as a prisoner of war.


Ipohvy

That bastard motherfucker thought bush didn’t go far enough invading iraq. The NVA should’ve just shot him and made the world a better place


Thisisannoyingaf

I wonder how many of our soldiers were tortured because of John McCains war mongering, fuck him in all aspects. The fact that he was willing to send others to endure what he did speaks to how disgusting a person he was.


kittenmommy

> But at the end of the day, it’s disgusting to make fun of the torture someone underwent as a prisoner of war. This.


Ipohvy

And the torture gone through those who he dropped bombs and chemicals on?


sergei650

Nah, I still hate him and do not respect him. People talk about how he stood up for Obama at his rally’s. Who do they think was running the ads with his Obama’s skin darkened and calling him a Muslim form Kenya. He got to play the good guy while his campaign was racist.


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marshallmellow

Why the fuck is McCain considered some kind of hero? Do you people understand what the Vietnam War was? Who do you think we were fighting, the Nazis? McCain was bombing civilian areas and dropping napalm on forests when he was shot down. US bombing campaigns killed something like 3 million civilians in Laos and Vietnam. It was a holocaust. The US dropped more bombs on Vietnam than the total number of bombs dropped in WW2. And for what? The only heroes of that war were the North Vietnamese people, defending their homeland against foreign invaders and murderers, and the American draft dodgers. God, its so bizarre to see the cognitive dissonance of Americans willing to defend their war criminal politicians because the Orange Man was rude to them. I don't like Trump but dodging the draft and insulting McCain were two things he should be commended for.


McKeon1921

And what are your thoughts on the Southern Vietnamese? Were they at fault for defending themselves, before the US even got involved, against these ''heroic'' Northern Vietnamese?


HatedProgressive

I didn't agree with everything McCain did but when the Republican party abandoned him and then disowned him after his death, really further proved what useless cowards theyve become under Trump.


cookerg

Nixon and Kissinger caused most of that torture. They sabotaged Johnson's peace plan and basically implemented the exact same plan 4 years later. McCain and others endured 4 extra years of suffering due to their scheming


njaneardude

I was always a big McCain fan, was honored to have met him personally. Recently heard about his first wife and how he ditched her after he returned from the war. It’s not a pretty story. Yeah, divorce happens, but he cheated on and left her for a money wife. Kind of uncool.


fortonightspleasure

You learned new information and changed your opinion as a result. That's a positive thing. But it irritates the hell out me how many people are ready to lionize John McCain based on media soundbites with no idea of who he really was.