T O P

How does weather only affect Southwest and not other airlines?

How does weather only affect Southwest and not other airlines?

heymattrick

Southwest's model is called P2P, or Point to Point, so their routes are very different than most other major airlines which use what is called a "hub & spoke" model, so poor weather in certain parts of the country can more negatively impact schedules as planes and crews don't make it to where their connections are and flights end up getting canceled because they don't have crews in the right place to operate them. There was obviously multiple factors going into all the issues this past week but this was a contributing factor


Trenches

This right here to get an understanding of airline operations. Then understand that the weather that caused it to cascade out of control was there Friday night and other airlines also had cancellations. The weather was true documented as being there. It didn't only effect SW.


Business_Grade3011

Still makes the later side of the cancelations SW fault for having a business model that would alow it to spiral out of hand that far


citrusfaux

the 633 pilots our "sick" probably contributed


ilrosewood

On Foxnews the head of the pilots union said the rates are exactly what they have on any given weekend.


citrusfaux

the pilots themselves had a different story


ilrosewood

Do you have a reliable citation? I got burned pretty bad by this so I'm interested in finding the real reason. Closest I've seen is a picture of "a pilot" whose face you can't see holding a sign.


walnut100

I mean, there are weather maps of the US you can view by hour and see. Less than 200 flights across every other airline combined were cancelled compared to what, 2k at Southwest?


citrusfaux

pull the fox news reports from the last few days. they had interviewed actual pilots


ilrosewood

Fox News is not a reliable news source.


citrusfaux

All other news is claiming weather which I think any normal person knows to be bs


ilrosewood

They aren’t claiming anything. They are reporting what Southwest said, nothing more.


citrusfaux

Is it not the job of the news to investigate and report more than the official statement?


Trenches

Can you narrow it down? I've seen a pilot for a different airline say he wouldn't do a sick out but understands why people would do a sick out. I'm also well aware of people being upset over the mandate. I work for AA and last week we and SW protested the mandates. However as far as any of us can tell in all my aviation groups the SW pilot sick out is just an online rumor that has been repeated enough to seem true. All of the major Airlines have had operational melt downs since this summer as demand picks up and staffing remains below pre pandemic levels. For example my shop has only replaced 2 of the 14 people we lost during lock downs.


citrusfaux

working right now, I'll dig through to find the sources I'm quoting later tonight. standby


JB_smooove

Came down from what I’m hearing with Freedom Flu.


RampAgentRoger

I used to work for southwest and quit recently. Management is forcing it’s staff to work insane amount of hours that are mandatory. Ramp agents are exhausted. Do you trust a ramper pushing a plane out with one hour of sleep and working 18 hour shifts? Pilots are tired of this shit too. These next 2 months are going to be brutal at southwest. This is just a snippet of the disaster that’s going to unfold there.


hawkweasel

Because Southwest management is the only airline that thinks so little of their customers that they would continually humiliate themselves by sticking to that story. Anywho, as an aside, they sent me an email for $250 in free air travel today after abandoning myself and about 1,000 people in St. Louis on Saturday with no hotels, cars or food. It took me 41 hours and $450 to get to my final destination via Greyhound and other means. I'll be contacting customer service for all my points back as well.


Tech-Obsessed

The CSA should’ve booked you on a flight on another airline free of charge to you. I’m pretty sure I saw this in a memo sent out via email. I think if it was over 24 or 48 hours they were to provide the $250 voucher and a flight on another airline.


Business_Grade3011

Yah they canceled my layover from LV to Reno 1230am Sunday morning/Saturday night. No accommodations given the flight they offered was not till Tuesday. They gave my wife $150 voucher in an email today. We spent a grand to get back to Reno. Fuck SW and thier bullshit.


0scarMadison

It doesn’t. Many of their pilots and ATC just happened to get sick at the same time. Wonder what it could be?


citrusfaux

the amount of media claiming it's "weather" is frankly disturbing


flyinhusky

As a controller that worked that night the weather was nasty and we got our butts kicked for 8 hours straight. There was a line of TS from TPA to JAX and massive storms in south Florida. That shut down PBI, FLL, and MIA for hours. But of course this is the internet so I know no one will believe me. Edit: Here's some SIGMETs from Friday night (that started the mess) along with the best historic NEXRAD image I could find. https://imgur.com/a/JCCB0PR SIGMETs are what NOAA publishes to warn airmen about significant meteorological activity. The NEXRAD screenshot is from 10pm eastern. That was the other really wild thing about friday night. We're used to afternoon convective activity, but this went all the way into the midnight shift and really screwed everything up. There were TMIs such as ground stops, miles in-trail spacing, etc. because there were only a few lanes where we could get departures and arrivals through because of a massive swath of military airspace in ZJX airspace. Anyway, a lot of this is public info so some casual internet sleuthing will verify it. I can speak from the controller side that we had nothing going on as far as COVID sick whatever. There were sick hits at the ARTCCs as there always are on the saturday night shift, especially when people know they're going to come in and get their butt kicked with WX deviations. As to why SWA cancelled so many flights, my friends from that airline attribute it to SWA offering retirement incentives during COVID and a lot of people leaving, but this is hearsay I'll admit. also, just incase anyone doxxes me or something: the views expressed here are not the FAA's and they are entirely my own.


ilrosewood

Since that is what SWA said and there isn’t an alternative narrative - what else would you have them report?


citrusfaux

talk to the pilots and find out why a few hundred were out at the same time?


wastlywabbit

Idk maybe some journalism. Talk to pilots find out why they didn't come into work or they could just side with the multi billion dollar corp and say it was weather


ilrosewood

We demand news NOW. Yes, they can do that. The head of the SWA pilots association was on and asked those questions. That is the job of the union - to be a media representative. But most news stories I read said something like “Southwest blames weather and ATC” or “Weather and ATC are to blame, according to Southwest.”


PatchThePiracy

Well there are a large amount of pilots who are *under* the weather…


left-wing-kook

They don't employ the ATC so how does this make sense.


JB_smooove

If the Jacksonville ATC closes down, a lot of traffic is halted; all flights in/out of Florida, Alabama, Georgia and the Carolina’s are all affected.


TheQuarantinian

Atc targeted an airport that was mostly swa


Trenches

Both the union and SW are saying they had normal amount of pilots out sick. ATC in Jacksonville said they had a little higher than normal people out sick Friday night but not enough to heavily effect operations.


jfq722

Surely not the pilots fault...wink....WINK.... It will take more than a half-baked union brainstorm to bring that airline down. A hell of alot more.


NecessaryAd1915

If they do this again towards Thanksgiving or Christmas I guarantee you Southwest will not recover for years. I wouldn’t tempt pissed off pilots.


Powered_by_JetA

I'm avoiding Southwest until the weather improves. I'm assuming that will be around December 9th.


Bulbahunter

It must be something in the cabins of southwest planes that caused everyone to get sick all at the same time. You'd think they'd take precautions or something...


Neat_Ad_4544

Allergic to BS.


missionbeach

Last week, I returned a cordless drill I had borrowed from my neighbor. It was dry at my house, but raining at his. So it's probably some situation like that.


Business_Grade3011

Weather in Florida doesn't effect weather in Nevada


Trenches

Weather in Florida does effect flights elsewhere in the country however.


Business_Grade3011

But only for sw


Trenches

They don't use a hub model like other other major Airlines and they have a large amount of their fleet go into that area. All Airlines suffered delays and cancellations in the Jacksonville area Friday night. Here at AA we have cancelled around 600 flights in a 2 day window in July and August. We were effected more heavily than other airlines during that time because it was in areas we covered more heavily. No one tried blaming a sick out then


Business_Grade3011

Ok so SW is still to blame because they have a bad business modle when it comes to operations.


Trenches

No argument there.


JimmineyCricket2018

It doesnt


Rosaadriana

How does the vaccine mandate only affect Southwest and not other airlines? United and American have the same mandate.


OhHeSteal

Because it’s a made up story to push an anti vaccine agenda.


Ok_Proof_2046

SW CEO actually just announced they won't be firing anyone over the mandate. I wonder if that's just agenda, too? 🤔


Trenches

I've seen a screenshot of a text stating that a few days ago. As far as I'm aware that hasn't actually been made public.


Hemlock9237

He said this on ABC News - Good Morning America with George Stephanopoulos. It was on Tuesday. "No one will be getting fired over this."


ihavesensitiveknees

Yeah, they will be put on unpaid leave.


Powered_by_JetA

That's exactly how United is handling it and I'd expect it to be the norm across the industry.


Positive-Ad3876

RIIIIGHT! And what weather?? I call BS!!


JackEnrod

Because management lies.


flowers4u

It was too sunny. The pilots had glare


headingwest2mtns

lol I was asking the same question! Depends on which clouds they fly through?