T O P

Typical Hot Takes posts after finishing the Trouble with Peace

Typical Hot Takes posts after finishing the Trouble with Peace

xserpx

My theory is that Rikke will presume she's the owl and then be screwed over when she finds out the identity of the real owl (possibly Bayaz)? But I also wouldn't be surprised if Joe upends the entire prophecy in some way, rendering the wolf vs sun vs lion vs lamb part moot and/or showing it to be a self-fulfilling prophecy in some way. And I think the fact she told Bayaz the entire prophecy in ALH will be a big deal in TWOC. Crippling Leo will not make him an intellectual. It just won't. I don't know where his story will go, but I'm pretty sure he'll be just as much of a dumb jock moving forward as he has always been. I think it's possible he'll get swept up in the Breakers/Burners rebellion and become some sort of figurehead against the crown again, but it really depends. I'd like to see him be slightly less of a puppet ideologically than he was in TTWP - Leo's strength is in his passion and charisma, so if you give him a cause to truly believe in he can be a force to be reckoned with. In TTWP he had moments of believing in the war, of course, but there was also a lot of doubt and other people pushing him for their own ends. I don't think the Breakers/Burners are little league at all. I don't want Bayaz to set them all straight with a snap of his fingers, and most of all I think I just don't want this trilogy to be a repeat of the first, where all of humanity is on the backfoot when it comes to the Magi. Pike is a smart dude, there's been talk of opening the House of the Maker, they're going directly after the banks... this is a targeted assault on Bayaz. He's no longer the shadow master he once was. But that said, Bayaz certainly won't go down without a fight, either.


autoapocrypha

Not terribly relevant to the topic at hand, but honestly i don't know that i see a lot of charisma in Leo? if you're already on his side, like Jurand, he's all sunshine, but when he runs up against a skeptic he has to persuade - Finree, Stour, Jappo, even Rikke - he gets sulky and resentful that they won't just go along with him. a charismatic leader would be able to do better, maybe not convince them entirely, but not fall on their face as hard as Leo does. Big Agree on the Breakers and Burners though, i think Bayaz is in for more trouble from them than he or anyone else expects


xserpx

I think Leo has the edge on convincing people from afar, though, far more than anyone else. The commoners hate Orso, Savine has to work hard to earn her reputation (which is dodgy at best), but both of them are better than Leo at face-to-face persuasion. Leo is charismatic as a symbol, as a storybook hero, as a celebrity, and in a book where group think and mob psychology is at play, Leo's brand of charisma will probably be far more powerful.


autoapocrypha

that’s a good point, it’ll be interesting to see where he goes in TWOC


Turinbour

It’s never confirmed though if Rikke still has the Long Eye... she never gets a vision again after the whole Caurib affair. She only says shes seen a vision of the future, possibly hinting she doesn’t have it anymore.


thingsmadeofwood

Yeah, especially with Cauribs comment along the lines of, 'Its more important what you say than the visions themselves'


awyastark

I’m almost entirely certain she doesn’t have it anymore.


ElfInTheMachine

Is this alluded to? I didnt get that notion. The "visions" have stopped and she doesn't shit herself anymore, but she also has been pretty spot on about things. I saw it more like she has now integrated the long eye, and her entire being and thought process is driven by knowing intuitions and waking visions, or nods in a certain direction. Although she never really explicitly had a "vision" after she was made to choose, so its entirely possible she chose the regular eye and has been putting on an act ever since.


Valint_Balk

Tunny needs more page time.


awyastark

I keep having this feeling that Leo will become some kind of figure for the worker’s revolution though I couldn’t tell you why


GunnarBroad

He'll likely be seen as having made a noble sacrifice to allow the revolutionaries their moment to take over. Perhaps unintentionally, but still. Regardless of his reasons, I can see people seeing him as a symbol of honorable revolution against a tyrannical crown.


awyastark

Yeah this tracks


Vogonvor

My favourite theory as to the identity of the owl is that it signifies a parliament (the collective noun for owls is parliament) and the union becoming a republic. I'm sure that as it's Joe it will be a suitably grim, dystopian republic but I think a successful revolution would be much more narratively interesting than a reversion to Bayaz-enforced monarchy.


NuckinFuts_69

I figure Bayaz is the owl, since owls are labeled as being super wise and that's basically what Bayaz means. Could be wrong. I wanna ask you a question about something I might have missed. At the end of the book during the hangings, is Gunnar one of the people that are hanged? I know there's a mention of glasses, and he wears them. But I'm just unsure on if it was him or not?


xserpx

No, it's not Gunnar.


NuckinFuts_69

Good. I'm glad he made it out. Knowing Abercrombie, he'll prolly kill him or ruin his life in the next book lol


xserpx

I'm really looking forward to his material in TWOC. I feel like Joe's been purposefully keeping Gunnar fairly understated only to reveal him as some kind of keystone of the finale.


NuckinFuts_69

Okay I need your help with another part that I feel stupid for not being able to work out. How is Bayaz Valint and Balk? I know it says they share the same name but I guess I'm too dumb to see the connection


xserpx

Glokta in LAOK: > ‘Do I have the pleasure of addressing Master Valint, or Master Balk?’ > Bayaz smiled. ‘Both, of course.’ Bayaz literally _is_ the bank. It's Bayaz that provides money to the Union's war efforts, Bayaz who gives the fortune to Glokta to shore up Dagoska against the Gurkish, Bayaz who pushes up the interest on the crown's debts, thereby raising taxes, thereby pushing land and business owners to treat their tenants and employees like cattle in order to keep costs as low as possible. Any time anyone says "Valint and Balk", just replace it with "Bayaz."


SirKeka

I think Rikke made the whole thing up. She did see some things, but the Lion, Wolf, Lamb, Owl thing is made up.


Snorterra

Why would she make it up? What reason is there for her to tell Isern something random about owls and lambs and lions in her first chapter? There's somr evidence that she is lying about her prophecies in TTWP, but nothing hinting about that in ALH. Even then, she predicts the battle of the red hill and Uffrith burning in that same scene, and we know both of them to be true.


SirKeka

not lying about all the prophecies. just that one. there is no way abercrombie is going to play the unexpected prophecy trope in AoM straight.


Snorterra

But why would she lie about that prophecy? Why would she tell Isern complete bullshit, only to add details that are absolutely true in the same sentence?


SirKeka

unsure of a vision, seeing something she'd rather not share, etc. Another option is somebody hearing about the prophecy and sabotaging it by re-enacting it literally with actual animals.