T O P

[MH2] Limited Archetypes

[MH2] Limited Archetypes

EDHrocks

>BR - Madness [https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGRumors/comments/mkdcpc/mh2\_rumors/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGRumors/comments/mkdcpc/mh2_rumors/) >Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar is getting a card. She has no mana cost and has to be Madness'd into play. ITS HAPPENING PEOPLE WE ARE GETTING THE COOK LET'S GO!


EliteMasterEric

Several of these have been suspiciously accurate so far: * [Counterspell](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/n6iil8/mh2_counterspell/) reprint * [Sanctum Prelate](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/n6ih4v/mh2_sanctum_prelate/) as BaB * [Evoke Elementals](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/nhcg5f/mh2_grief/) where you exile a card to evoke them. * EDIT: [Uncastable Suspend cards](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/nhcio7/mh2_profane_tutor/) like Restore Balance (thanks /u/EDHrocks) You could easily guess the Counterspell one, but the Evoke one has me thinking this is legit.


EDHrocks

It also got the “uncastable suspend card” part


ThatEeveeGuy

They're squeezing in her name by not giving her a mana cost. That's clever as hell.


PocketTaco

What/who is that big long word there? Something from old stories or lore?


aaronconlin

A demonic chef from some old flavor texts


JustOneThingThough

She's human, employed in the underworld by a demon.


SiletheSilent

Ah yes, the human Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar and her demon employer ***Vincent***


JustOneThingThough

Those are just quality fantasy names.


Kor_Set

A character with a name so powerful that it still breaks the frames on Gatherer.


SableArgyle

A chef who had to cook for demons, they eventually made a cook book. They appear in flavor text. [[Granite Gargoyle]] [[Lightning Axe]] [[Saute]]


MTGCardFetcher

[Granite Gargoyle](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/f/1fa2963d-010f-491c-8ccc-3b4d4bc88398.jpg?1559592408) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Granite%20Gargoyle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/99/granite-gargoyle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1fa2963d-010f-491c-8ccc-3b4d4bc88398?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lightning Axe](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/a/ca33c171-ab9e-4908-8f97-82cd83b173c0.jpg?1619397252) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Axe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/174/lightning-axe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca33c171-ab9e-4908-8f97-82cd83b173c0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Saute](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/5/85cbebbb-7ea4-4140-933f-186cad08697d.jpg?1562488867) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Saut%C3%A9) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unh/88/saut%C3%A9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/85cbebbb-7ea4-4140-933f-186cad08697d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Iamamancalledrobert

Lightning Axe’s flavour text possibly being the very next sentence after Granite Gargoyle’s is *so cool*


Bouq_

Fuck yes!!!! With how high madness is up on the storm scale, I'm really glad we're getting it! It's one of my all-timd fave mechanics


Iamamancalledrobert

No storm scale here in Modern Horizons! Except for Ante, I guess, cards that break State laws probably aren’t allowed


Al3xR3ads

They'll have to invent a new formatting system.


Unhappy-Initiative-8

I think having no mana cost, as speculated, might be part of making the name fit.


EliteMasterEric

The name could fit with no mana cost (see [[Ancestral Vision]])


MTGCardFetcher

[Ancestral Vision](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/0/9079c93e-3da8-442a-89d2-609a3eac83b0.jpg?1619393761) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancestral%20Vision) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/52/ancestral-vision?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9079c93e-3da8-442a-89d2-609a3eac83b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


April_March

Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar VS Gyome Duel Decks


ricky10203

RG storm surprises me, but I ain’t complaining


ZeroAurora

I was shocked at first too, but thinking about it, it made a ton of sense: you have the best ramping color and the best ritual color so you have plenty of mana to chain spells together... along with one of the most important storm cards: [[Manamorphose]]


MTGCardFetcher

[Manamorphose](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/a/faf9070e-14be-4ce5-a19a-6addc79359c1.jpg?1599708170) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Manamorphose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/208/manamorphose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/faf9070e-14be-4ce5-a19a-6addc79359c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


TempAccount28523800

Wanna bet that there will be a creature with storm? Now that we can copy creature spells it is just a matter of time. MH2 is the perfect place for such shenanigan


RealityPalace

But... storm crow doesn't go into RG... they wouldn't do that to us, would they?


ColonelError

You mean [[Crow Storm]]?


RealityPalace

They made crow storm before the rules supported copying permanent spells. All I am saying is that if the first actually creature with Storm isn't a 1/2 blue flyer it will be a slap in the face and everyone should quit magic forever


MTGCardFetcher

[Crow Storm](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/5/f5e0713c-8358-46fc-9618-66a986d681cb.jpg?1562946860) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crow%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/31/crow-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5e0713c-8358-46fc-9618-66a986d681cb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Bugberry

[[Storm Entity]]


MTGCardFetcher

[Storm Entity](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/f/6f6e88a5-0d1f-4587-b855-42ab5452ddc8.jpg?1619397691) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Storm%20Entity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/193/storm-entity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f6e88a5-0d1f-4587-b855-42ab5452ddc8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Anastrace

Give me that and a reprint of [[storm entity]]


MTGCardFetcher

[storm entity](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/f/6f6e88a5-0d1f-4587-b855-42ab5452ddc8.jpg?1619397691) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=storm%20entity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/193/storm-entity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f6e88a5-0d1f-4587-b855-42ab5452ddc8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Coggs92

I have an old RG storm deck which needs updating which likes the possibility of new tech.


mortifyingideal

Yeah my wort edh deck is excited


goblin_welder

Maybe we’ll get a red version of [[High Tide]]/[[Bubbling Muck]]


MTGCardFetcher

[High Tide](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/0/2047963c-3761-4d21-834a-674762248b77.jpg?1590511804) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=High%20Tide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/73/high-tide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2047963c-3761-4d21-834a-674762248b77?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bubbling Muck](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/c/6ca76614-78a1-4535-9162-70469d1e8a13.jpg?1562444234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bubbling%20Muck) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uds/54/bubbling-muck?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6ca76614-78a1-4535-9162-70469d1e8a13?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


RealityPalace

I am extremely curious how they are going to print enough storm cards to support an entire draft archetype


108Echoes

You don't need that many, you just need them to be common and bad outside of the archetype. And/or you have cards with storm-like payoffs for casting a ton of spells on the same turn, even if they don't literally have storm.


TheShekelKing

Same way cycling works in ikora. Almost every card in that archetype is awful in every other deck. And yet there are still multiple red or white strategies that don't involve being a cycling deck.


2HGjudge

Look at the first Modern Masters, also had it in RG


[deleted]

[удалено]


108Echoes

As defined in the first sentence of the linked article, the Storm Scale is relevant only for Standard-legal cards. Voting effects, for instance, are rated at 10 on the storm scale even though they keep turning up in various multiplayer-focused releases.


Yawgmothlives

Wait R/W is Modular?? As in Arcbounds??


Sliver__Legion

Yep. I designed the following a while ago and would be really tickled if WotC decided to do something like it: Arcbound Lion W Artifact creature — cat Modular 1 1/0


Yawgmothlives

My buddy has been FIENDING for new Arcbounds and modular for ages He cheesed so hard when Scrapyard Recombiner came out in MH1 He is gonna freak out hearing it’s coming back Hopefully a good legendary creature for Modular!


attracted

[[Arcbound Fiend]]ing you say?? I also love modular. Been building a [[Silas Renn]] + [[Reyhan]] arcbound deck for kicks


Yawgmothlives

Hear me out This will be a commander or something similar in this set 1WR Legendary Creature - Human Artificer Artifact creatures you control have haste 3,T: return an artifact creature with power less equal to or less than to the battlefield. Sacrifice it at the end of turn. 1/3


attracted

That would be a dream. With the Lorehold precon boosting artifact creatures specifically, there could be a lot of goodies for RW aggro artifact shenanigans!


MTGCardFetcher

[Arcbound Fiend](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/0/408f42ae-fb83-4c8a-8638-38c719dec197.jpg?1562636481) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcbound%20Fiend) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dst/96/arcbound-fiend?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/408f42ae-fb83-4c8a-8638-38c719dec197?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Silas Renn](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/e/4e3fe912-1374-47c7-b73f-89ef55c479c1.jpg?1562399367) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=silas%20renn%2C%20seeker%20adept) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/43/silas-renn-seeker-adept?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e3fe912-1374-47c7-b73f-89ef55c479c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Reyhan](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/a/8afad106-a49b-4910-959e-228c109ea983.jpg?1617148360) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=reyhan%2C%20last%20of%20the%20abzan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/13/reyhan-last-of-the-abzan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8afad106-a49b-4910-959e-228c109ea983?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


geckomage

R/W Modular & U/W Affinity/Artifacts gives me the slightest glimmer of hope that Affinity can come back from the dead after the Mox Opal banning.


Jace17

Same. I've had my affinity deck since Darksteel came out and is my only non-EDH deck. I was heartbroken that it stopped being somewhat competitive after the opal ban.


geckomage

My deck is almost entirely foiled, promo'd, and in anything non-english when possible. I haven't touched it in over a year.


mutekiseijin

Yeah, I love the arcbounds, my dream mechanic would be a combo of modular + keyword counters, maybe limited to a single tribe, so it doesn't get out of hand, something like "when this creature dies, you may move all counters from it to another ooze" and "this creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter and a lifelink counter"


Yawgmothlives

Personally I’m hoping for an arcbound commander Maybe a R/W guy who is the Arcbound Forgemaster that makes arcbound tokens? Idk


AyyOhhDee

Hell yeah! Surely seeing a ravager reprint and hopefully some cool new cards, would love to see the mechanic get a new injection of life 😀


weggles

UR delirium is weird since it was originally mostly BG


Ciretako

Don't they often twist mechanic colors in sets like this? I can't think of any specific examples off hand but I recall it happening before.


wildfire393

And yet for the time in a row (Time Spiral, Shadows over Innistrad) they're focusing Madness in RB. GIVE THE PEOPLE UG MADNESS AGAIN


PocketTaco

I think they're just saying that since it's double off color, you might have a harder time combining those different delirium cards


themiragechild

That's pretty much how it worked with Cycling in Ikoria vs Amonkhet.


ZeroAurora

UR is another one that shocked me, but it makes total sense when I looked at what set up there was for it in the colors already. Blue and Red are the home of Looting and Rummaging. You might not be directly milling yourself to set up Delirium like you did when it was focused in Abzan colors in the Innistrad Block, BUT you can more or less perfectly craft your graveyard by using the cards in your hand to hit Delirium as precisely as possible! And when you look at the rest of Grixis colors having "Payment for Discard" and "Madness" as their themes it really helps drive home that the method for reaching Delirium isn't going to be focused on self mill, but rather discarding in the two best colors at repeatedly drawing and discarding! Not to say self mill won't be possible, since that is something blue can do, but it won't be the focus


Bugberry

Similarly, I remember seeing people confused why Red would get "draw second card" Themes in Eldraine and MH1, forgetting that Cycling and Rummage count as drawing a second card, even if you aren't up in card advantage.


weggles

That makes a lot of sense. Draw 1 discard 1 is a great way to get to a fairly tuned gy and hand.


MTGCardFetcher

[Merfolk Looter](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/c/8cae1a42-052e-4110-9afc-d3ec83b7c8a9.jpg?1562438102) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Merfolk%20Looter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/65/merfolk-looter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8cae1a42-052e-4110-9afc-d3ec83b7c8a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Rummaging Goblin](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/5/254391a3-c12a-4944-9da5-ae166094480f.jpg?1608910383) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rummaging%20Goblin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/198/rummaging-goblin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/254391a3-c12a-4944-9da5-ae166094480f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Angel24Marin

It's Instant and sorceries in graveyard with extra toppings.


OmegaDriver

That it was mostly BG before in no way means it is mostly married to those colors. We've seen convoke outside of WG, etc. UR is also a fit since rummage and looting both work well with delirium, plus it has some overlap with UB's & BR's archetypes.


bigbobo33

[[Psychatog]] is coming to Modern guaranteed.


MTGCardFetcher

[Psychatog](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/6/f60911a4-2eb6-4f20-a1c1-2fc5a29c35b5.jpg?1562944556) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Psychatog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/258/psychatog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f60911a4-2eb6-4f20-a1c1-2fc5a29c35b5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


dinosaurbeast88

Now you're cooking with gas.


hippiethor

>* WB - Reanimator Just one playable reanimation spell below mana value 4 at common for pauper reanimator, please, I'm begging.


LuckyLooter

[[Unearth]] ?


hippiethor

Use it, love it, but doesn't let me turn 3 Crusher people.


LuckyLooter

I really can't imagine any reasonable cmc 3 spell at common that reanimates something of any size like Crusher. Just use Leaden Myr to get the t3?


hippiethor

[[Exhume]] already exists. A [[Reanimate]] or similar downside at mana value 3 (maybe with 2-3 black pips to cut down splashing) would be totally reasonable.


MTGCardFetcher

[Exhume](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/f/5f1cdcba-a04a-4a2f-8bc1-0dd7fa03754d.jpg?1600714444) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Exhume) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/230/exhume?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5f1cdcba-a04a-4a2f-8bc1-0dd7fa03754d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Reanimate](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/5/652271a0-80e8-4b9b-8823-26c1528378fc.jpg?1600714661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reanimate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/270/reanimate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/652271a0-80e8-4b9b-8823-26c1528378fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MTGCardFetcher

[Unearth](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/6/b62abd0c-ec3e-45d7-989d-da269812aeef.jpg?1562201767) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unearth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/113/unearth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b62abd0c-ec3e-45d7-989d-da269812aeef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Chid3

Or at least a 4 cmc black reanimating spell


Babel_Triumphant

I want literally any W reanimation spell that comes anywhere close to the good B spells.


shortypants808

I feel like pauper has enough good reanimation spells, the targets just aren't good enough


hippiethor

Yeah, no. Exhume is our best reanimation spell and everything else either costs 5 or means you have to splash white.


imbolcnight

I like the pivots here. White having modular artifact creatures for WU, RW, and GW. Black having discard for UB, BR, and WB. There've been more clear tri-color overlaps for draft in the past couple years, IMO, and it has helped draft formats feel deeper.


LifeNeutral

Why can’t WG get something cooler than +1/+1.. it’s always plus counters or enchantments for WG.. :(


KoalaDolphin

Prob because the other +1/+1 colour, simic, just had counters as its mechanic last set.


Bugberry

When? Quandrix isn’t counters matter, and in Kaldheim it was Snow and Changelings.


KoalaDolphin

While quandrix wasnt per se, alot of the cards came in with alot of counters.


Milskidasith

Fractals aren't counters matter. Silverquill actually had a counters matter theme


KoalaDolphin

I know? Doesn't change the fact all their payoff where based around token with alot of counters on em.


Dorfbewohner

But barely any of the Quandrix counters actually cared about the counters once they were on creatures.


Bugberry

Or tokens or Vigilance matters or Landfall. Why do people not check the recent past before making these kinds of statements? In all of Standard currently it’s only been Enchantments and counters once each.


LifeNeutral

Wotc just hasn’t printed any universally good WG cards in a long time. Maybe Yasharn. But otherwise nothing. Which really sucks for WG commander players that don’t play counter or enchantment (or token) synergies.


Bugberry

https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=color%3DWG+legal%3Astandard+rarity%3Au Check your facts before claiming what WG has done recently. The WG companion was Cat/Nightmare/Elemental/Dinosaur/Beast tribal. The WG Legend in Zendikar supported Landfall.


Bugberry

It’s crazy how the goal posts have been moved. From “WG gets counters theme every other set” to “they haven’t printed a lot of pushed, non-creature focused, non-enchantment cards targeted at non-limited formats”. This post is about limited archetypes.


Z_mb

Please tell me which two color pair has less going on than GW. I'm genuinely curious because I feel like every other two color pair has more mechanics and creativity behind their current direction.


Bugberry

M21 and M19 had basically the same signpost uncommon \[\[Brawl-Bash Ogre\]\] and \[\[Dire Fleet Warmonger\]\] and then M20 had \[\[Ogre Siegebreaker\]\] which is just RB aggro/removal. [https://scryfall.com/search?q=color%3DWG+%28set%3Am21+OR+set%3Am20+OR+set%3Am19%29&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name](https://scryfall.com/search?q=color%3DWG+%28set%3Am21+OR+set%3Am20+OR+set%3Am19%29&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name) In those same sets WG had Counters, go-wide Tokens, and Enchantments. Just right there, in Core sets, WG has had more recent diversity.


MTGCardFetcher

[Brawl-Bash Ogre](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/8/38b9f9d7-a00d-4a90-9d7a-88ece10af328.jpg?1562301693) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brawl-Bash%20Ogre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/213/brawl-bash-ogre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/38b9f9d7-a00d-4a90-9d7a-88ece10af328?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dire Fleet Warmonger](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/f/1fa781df-859f-4346-9424-b3713b17e1f6.jpg?1594737366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dire%20Fleet%20Warmonger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/217/dire-fleet-warmonger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1fa781df-859f-4346-9424-b3713b17e1f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ogre Siegebreaker](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/a/0aba1c64-c552-4aeb-b669-da885c8c75b2.jpg?1592517556) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ogre%20Siegebreaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/215/ogre-siegebreaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0aba1c64-c552-4aeb-b669-da885c8c75b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Bugberry

https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=color%3DWG+legal%3Astandard+rarity%3Au RB is almost always aggro sacrifice. It gets Madness sometimes in Supplemental sets, but in recent Standards it’s been far less diverse than GW. https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=color%3DBR+legal%3Astandard+rarity%3Au


Z_mb

Yay GW gets +1 counters how original


Dogsy

Wait, now hold on a minute. They might even have creatures that have something like "If a +1/+1 counter would be put on a creature you control, it gets an additional counter. Use this ability only once per turn." Aren't you STOKED??


KarnSilverArchon

You’ve jinxed it. Now Selesnya Counters will destroy Modern and Legacy.


ricky10203

RemindMe! 1 month


Bugberry

Before M21 when was that last the theme?


Z_mb

I mean I don't think it matters the last time they did +1 counters as a theme for WG when it seems like that's half of it's identity. I may be biased cause Selesnya is my favorite color combination but I feel like they get shafted as far as creativity and pushing boundaries compared to most if not all the other two color pairs.


Auzzie_almighty

I think this is a matter of “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” Counters are just such a perfect mix of thematic appropriateness and mechanical power for W/G that it’s hard to top, though I will agree it comes at the cost of creativity


LifeNeutral

Respectfully disagree. Many WG edh players do not want to play counters or enchantments. So it really sucks that wotc doesn’t want to give WG other themes / toys to play with.


Leandenor7

I think WG can push their cultish extreme and starts assimilating other players permanents. Like when a creature you control "kills" an opponent's creature. Exile it and you can cast it from exile. Your creature actually did not kill it, just weaken it enough to be open to herbal based suggestions later.


Bugberry

https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=color%3DWG+legal%3Astandard+rarity%3Au are you serious? GW landfall has been a theme. Tokens is classic Selesnya and doesn’t necessarily use Counters. GW has had Tribal themes, like the GW Companion.


LifeNeutral

Tokens too, yes.. (I personally put tokens and counters into a similar category, but I know they’re not). But don’t you see that it’s mostly always counters, or enchantments, or tokens? I love WG and always play it in edh, but I don’t play counter or token or enchantment synergies. So most new GW cards suck for me. The only new GW card I was excited about was Yasharn. EDIT: to clarify, I put plus counters and tokens into a similar category because they’re both essentially just creature combat based. And you know, for requiring to carry around extra “markers” for counters/tokens all the time.


Bugberry

But it's not "mostly" that any more than RB is "mostly" sacrifice aggro, RW equipment aggro, UG ramp, UW flyers, etc. And again, "most new" doesn't apply to Standard if you actually look at what's in Standard. There's a difference between counters as a payoff and as something a card or theme cares about.


Bugberry

They do, did you not see my links? \[\[Frondland Felidar\]\] \[\[Kaheera the Orphanguard\]\] \[\[Murasa Rootgrazer\]\] \[\[Yasharn Implacable Earth\]\] None of those even mention counters or enchantments. It's like you people only go off "feel" and not what actually is the truth.


LifeNeutral

As I mentioned in one of my previous replies to you, Yasharn is the only recent GW card that stands out from the rest and that got me excited. Most other GW cards fall into creature combat synergies (just like plus counters and tokens). And that sucks for GW players that don’t want to play those synergies. What I’m trying to express is that the other Color pairs get universally good cards more often, whereas GW rarely gets new gems, and is mostly stuck in the same counters / tokens / enchantments matters theme.


Bugberry

GW are the two creature colors. Why do I not see these same complaints about UR spells or RB sacrifice/aggro or UW flyers?


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Frondland Felidar](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/b/ab220695-e1a9-45ec-a1b1-5a82c9c90a03.jpg?1591605277) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Frondland%20Felidar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/186/frondland-felidar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab220695-e1a9-45ec-a1b1-5a82c9c90a03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Kaheera the Orphanguard](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/4/d4ebed0b-8060-4a7b-a060-5cfcd2172b16.jpg?1591228410) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kaheera%2C%20the%20Orphanguard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/224/kaheera-the-orphanguard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4ebed0b-8060-4a7b-a060-5cfcd2172b16?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Murasa Rootgrazer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/7/e70b3b78-9bdc-449b-82a9-c2fc3dd7f120.jpg?1604200243) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Murasa%20Rootgrazer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/229/murasa-rootgrazer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e70b3b78-9bdc-449b-82a9-c2fc3dd7f120?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Yasharn Implacable Earth](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/2/12878fbd-dbe5-44bc-9f34-38fd374ec10a.jpg?1604200584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yasharn%2C%20Implacable%20Earth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/240/yasharn-implacable-earth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/12878fbd-dbe5-44bc-9f34-38fd374ec10a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Bugberry

https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=color%3DWG+legal%3Astandard+rarity%3Au “Feel” huh? In Standard it’s been the theme once. In Standard it’s been Landfall, Vigilance matters, Tokens, and Adventures matter. It’s actually been very diverse recently.


Z_mb

I don't think this helps your argument as much as you think it does. Agree to disagree though.


Bugberry

Then tell me why it doesn't help. You could have used your comment to actually give a counterpoint instead of just "agree to disagree", in what way do you disagree? It's not like I'm giving an opinion, I'm giving links and pointing out facts, It's a minority in terms of how often it's been it's theme in Standard, and in terms of payoffs, every color gets counters as a payoff, Red the least. We've actually had just as many sets with Black caring about counters as White. People are saying it's all WG gets when the cards that prove you wrong are right there.


LifeNeutral

The cards you list in your link are all very limited (to enchantment/aura, tokens, or plus counters, or tribal). Some people don’t want to build a deck around only 1 synergy (especially a creature / combat synergy). Rather, they would love to play a universally good GW card. Yasharn fits that bill - he is the only “non-synergy” and not counter/token card GW got in a while.


Bugberry

That’s a whole different issue then. I’m specifically addressing people claiming WG gets counters as a Limited archetype all the time. GW are the colors with the most creatures. Do people complain about every UR archetype being some variation of spells mattering? And what do you mean “non-synergy”? You talk about people wanting other things to build around, that’s synergy.


Z_mb

I can stop conversing whenever I want to, bud. I don't think you're correct and I don't wish to keep trying to prove a point you aren't willing to get close to. I can submit that RB may be less exciting than WG but if Selesnya is 9/10 only in front of Rakdos I think that still proves what I was initially trying to say. But again, agree to disagree. Have a good one.


Bugberry

Counters are a common payoff in every color. People were just complaining about UG being "all counters" despite in Strixhaven they are just a payoff in Quandrix but are actually a theme in Silverquill. Considering WG has barely repeated any draft theme in Standard says a lot. I actually wish WG got more counter support in Standard, considering WB and BG have both had it in Strixhaven and Zendikar rising respectively.


AyyOhhDee

I'm very okay with more modular coming out! Hopefully some nice low cmc stuff to give my Marchesa modular deck more juice.


TemurTron

SO hyped for more Affinity cards. Let’s get that deck back to at least some relevance!


bigbobo33

Same but unless they put a cheap artifact mana ramp card, I don't see it coming back in the same form at all. The speed is what made that deck good. We'll see. I hope it comes back to some relevance at least. That deck was near and dear to my heart.


PathomaniacPlatypus

It won't be good without some serious protection/evasion added to it as well. Flying used to be rare as hell in modern, but now it's pretty common.


bigbobo33

I don't think that's a super big problem. [[Etched Champion]] would still be a house. It's really the speed that keeps it back.


PathomaniacPlatypus

Affinity was barely fringe playable by the time Opal ate a ban. It's too fragile and the rest of the format has sped up over time. Etched certainly is good, but the deck shouldn't have to rely on it to get damage in. When Affinity was top tier, you'd often be able to go wide and take the opponent down over a couple turns. With the increased presence of fliers and reachers, you can't attack without losing something important (Signal Pest is the prime example). This means you're relying more on going tall, which only goes well if the opponent has no good blocks and no removal. Plus, Walking Ballista has only gotten more common, and that thing chews Affinity up and spits it out. I played the hell out of Affinity and saw its decline first-hand. I would love nothing more than Affinity to become a format pillar again, but it's sort of a big ask at this point. I'm just hoping they give more support to the Scales archetype, as that's way, way closer to being a top tier deck.


bigbobo33

I'm well aware what Affinity was like when it was top tier. I've never piloted a deck to more top finishes than Affinity.


PathomaniacPlatypus

Glad you have good taste! Anyway, I honestly can't think of a card that would make affinity top tier again that isn't absolutely overpowered. Maybe an Ornithopter with an even bigger butt?


The_Bird_Wizard

Honestly could see a nerfed opal that can only be used to cast artifact creatures or something. That way you can't do Emry/Underworld Breach garbage.


PathomaniacPlatypus

That still would put it more of less back where Affinity was pre-ban, which is fringe playable at best. Though your nerfed version would be a MASSIVE downgrade since it couldn't pay for Cranial Plating activations or the myriad sideboard cards that need colored mana


The_Bird_Wizard

Yes but a hypothetical "nerfed opal" may also come with better creatures. One of Affinitys issues is that the creatures aren't very good. In the age of swiftspears, soul scar mages and other undercosted threats cards like Memnite, vault skirge and friends feel very very underpowered.


MTGCardFetcher

[Etched Champion](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/0/30fe653b-956a-4e0e-981b-37e1a6b08c2c.jpg?1562260261) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Etched%20Champion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/209/etched-champion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30fe653b-956a-4e0e-981b-37e1a6b08c2c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


TheRecovery

Lol, I like how UG and GW pass around +1/+1 counters as a set mechanic like it’s a hot potato. UG: ITS YOUR TURN TO HAVE THE TRASH SET MECHANIC GW


Barthas

MOM SAID IT'S YOUR TURN TO TAKE OUT THE TRASH


Bugberry

In Zendikar BG was Counters matter. And how is it trash?


LifeNeutral

Totally agree. Except that GW’s alternative (enchantments or tokens) is usually trash for most decks too.


Al3xR3ads

Storm THEME?


DrCarrionCrow

And it such fun colors!


QuantumAwesome

Nice! Looks like there’s a lot of overlap, which should make for good drafts. That was one of my favorite things about the first modern horizons.


NBRavager

> UB - Paying you for discarding cards What?


Ninjaboi333

Whenever you Discard a card, do x


retep014

[[Liliana's Caress]] reprint incoming


MTGCardFetcher

[Liliana's Caress](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/d/0d995382-57a6-40a4-9050-31f57cb8dae3.jpg?1562450532) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liliana%27s%20Caress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m11/103/lilianas-caress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0d995382-57a6-40a4-9050-31f57cb8dae3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Lilof

[[Psyachatog]]


MTGCardFetcher

[Psyachatog](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/6/f60911a4-2eb6-4f20-a1c1-2fc5a29c35b5.jpg?1562944556) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Psychatog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/258/psychatog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f60911a4-2eb6-4f20-a1c1-2fc5a29c35b5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


patrickfahey

This matters so little to anyone but me but this set looks like it's going to add so many cards to my Artifact cube, I'm so excited. My GW and RW archetypes need help and Conclave Mentor and Osgir can't do all the lifting themselves.


Kor_Set

It's always nice when a set inadvertently dumps a bunch of stuff for a theme cube. Enjoy your windfall. 🙏


farnival

Can I see your cube tutor/cube cobra or wherever you keep your list? I’ve got an artifact cube as well and I’m always looking for ideas.


patrickfahey

Sure! If you've got a list, DM it to me. I'll do the same when I get around to updating the list I have online. I haven't put the Strixhaven upgrades in yet.


maelstrom197

More BR madness cards? Anje is very pleased.


DrCarrionCrow

I’m really intrigued by the synergy between Izzet Delerium, Rakdos Madness and Dimir Discard Payment.


ahhthebrilliantsun

Grixis Graveyards here we go baby


Kaitscralt

Sigh, UW artifacts is my least favorite UW theme and they always lean into it for older formats.


wickling-fan

Madness in here? Wonder if there will be some good madness vampire cards for my vampire tribal tho if not it’s fine since i can just wait a few more months for guaranteed support


_OberonPuck_

My \[\[Anje Falkenrath\]\] deck is based around \[\[Falkenrath Gorger\]\], so I hope so too!


MTGCardFetcher

[Anje Falkenrath](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/1/913dd06f-ed2f-4128-9c9d-9cd0d8a55425.jpg?1568003632) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anje%20Falkenrath) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/37/anje-falkenrath?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/913dd06f-ed2f-4128-9c9d-9cd0d8a55425?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Falkenrath Gorger](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/7/474895d8-1f2c-45bb-b721-4cf7c290eb23.jpg?1576384725) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Falkenrath%20Gorger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/155/falkenrath-gorger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/474895d8-1f2c-45bb-b721-4cf7c290eb23?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Ibruki

that BG archetype made me salivate for my beledros deck


FeMtcco

Mazirek out here looking for new mates for his deck as well, lol.


Ibruki

preach swarm brother, preach


Vogonvor

I wonder if hardened scales will get enough support to be playable again? I mean +1/+1 counters, affinity/artifact matters and artifacts matter/modular build all fit into that archetype.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Bugberry

Before M21 when was the last time?


Bugberry

In the last 3 years it's had that theme literally twice in Standard, so I have no idea what you're talking about.


maxwellthedecent

I'm weirdly excited about GW +1/+1 counters. I've been trying to make that deck work since I first saw \[\[Hardened Scales\]\] and \[\[Dromoka's Command\]\].


dj_sliceosome

you're excited for GW's mechanic that comes around like every other set?


Firelash360

Tbf there will probably be more pushed cards than in a standard set for the archetype.


PocketTaco

To be fair, [[conclave mentor]] is an awesome card and that came out recently. Maybe there will be more cards in the same vein, or maybe better since that was a standard card


MTGCardFetcher

[conclave mentor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/3/a328a93a-e720-46d5-a190-cc65d1c90cea.jpg?1594737354) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=conclave%20mentor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/216/conclave-mentor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a328a93a-e720-46d5-a190-cc65d1c90cea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


maxwellthedecent

Yeah, it's gotten a lot of help recently. But it's never been actually good. I'm hoping for more playable 1-drops besides \[\[Swarm Shambler\]\]. \[\[Star Pupil\]\] doesn't exactly make the mark these days.


MTGCardFetcher

[Swarm Shambler](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/a/7a7e4f99-ece4-473e-b712-40e4c53558e8.jpg?1604199508) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swarm%20Shambler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/207/swarm-shambler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7a7e4f99-ece4-473e-b712-40e4c53558e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Star Pupil](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/9/99e9318f-2e17-4b6e-895f-c17cd5d0d282.jpg?1617445328) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Star%20Pupil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/30/star-pupil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/99e9318f-2e17-4b6e-895f-c17cd5d0d282?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


KoyoyomiAragi

The ones that come around for standard are generally draft chaff at best. More competitively costed cards wouldn’t hurt making some fringe archetypes get more wins.


Bugberry

Please, tell me which other recent sets have had WG counters as the theme? Or do the facts not support you?


Bugberry

https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=color%3DWG+legal%3Astandard+rarity%3Au Here is every signpost uncommon in Standard that is GW. Two only mention counters but don’t care about them, only M21 actually cared about counters as a theme. Zendikar had BG counters.


MTGCardFetcher

[Hardened Scales](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/1/01c4a294-d8b5-4237-af09-f592029c917a.jpg?1562272002) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hardened%20Scales) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/138/hardened-scales?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01c4a294-d8b5-4237-af09-f592029c917a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dromoka's Command](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/f/df1e43a8-0adc-4e26-bc56-6b914bd35838.jpg?1562794262) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dromoka%27s%20Command) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/221/dromokas-command?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df1e43a8-0adc-4e26-bc56-6b914bd35838?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


ChemicalExperiment

Any more information on what the "Junk" archetype is? All these other archetypes are pretty understandable but I have no idea what that one means.


Ninjaboi333

I just transcribed what they said on stream about the tokens. Basically accumulate as many different kinds of tokens as possible and cool shit happens


ChemicalExperiment

Thanks! That sounds really cool.


Jayfeather69

Seems like a menagerie-type thing, as in having a greater variety of token types will be rewarded. Think the vibe of [[Golden Ratio]] or [[Guardian Project]].


Waidmannshail

Affinity? ... ... ... Madness? ... ... ... Storm !? Like in the keywords? The stormscale-affinity of this set is absolute madness!! EDIT: MODULAR ?!? Didn't expect to see this one ever again :D


Bugberry

The storm scale has only ever applied to Standard sets. Maro says this in every Storm/Rabiah scale article.


Quarreltine

Fair. That being said don't think we're ever going to return to Rabiah in a premium set either.


Stormtide_Leviathan

Interesting, that's very good to know this early on, as someone who likes to make custom cards related to sets


DrCarrionCrow

I’ve wanted more Izzet Delerium ever since the last Innistrad visit during Eldritch Moon. I ran that during a sealed event and kicked a shocking amount of butt.


Ojomon_

I’ve been messing with the Izzet Emerge deck in pioneer for a while, and I just keep wanting to be able to use Emrakul at the top end. Obviously none of this stuff will be Pioneer legal but it could enable a fun Modern deck.


spore_counter

>RG - Storm I'll admit: I'm a degenerate. I'd love to see what having Storm as a draft archetype gets us in terms of Storm cards


TheGilderBairn

Ophiomancer would be perfect in that BG archetype right? and we'll get the token right?


EDHrocks

there might be a Tribe per type i can perdict some based on current previews and teasers (? means unsure) WU - Affinity / Artifact Matters - Myr Tribal UB - Discard benefits - Rogue tribal? BR - Madness - Insect tribal (milling can trigger madness) RG - Storm - Dinosaur tribal BG - Tokens - Squirrel tribal (we know squirrels are mostly tokens and thats the right colors for that tribe)


ahhthebrilliantsun

Milling does not trigger madness