WHO urges fully vaccinated people to continue to wear masks as delta Covid variant spreads
By - The_Krukenberg
That's what I'm wondering too. So if half the ppl who get it are vaccinated, do the get as sick? Or do they just carry it and feel kinda crappy for a couple days?
I'm vaccinated and I always feel crappy.
That's between you and the therapist you can't afford.
Really feel ya
I’ve heard butt stuff can help with that. Everyone loves butt stuff.
You’ll need to see an analytical therapist for that
Especially if you want a new start.
"And he hadn't even seen the licence plate."
“...and they were roommates!”
"Oh my god, they were roommates!" *clutches pearls*
Well if I may take off my acting pants for a moment, and pull my analrapist stocking over my head...
Tobias, did you try that thing with the tape recorder, buddy?
Tobias Fünke : Time for me to take off my receptionist skirt and put on my Barbara Streisand in the Prince Of Tides ass-masking therapist pantsuit.
Michael : What?
When I got my vaccine, I wasn't sure if the tiredness and lethargy were due to the vaccine, or just the depression. Turns out it was both.
drink more water, use facebook less, and prioritize getting good sleep.
Good sleep is so important, never really been a depressed person. But after we had our first kid and terrible sleep, I definitely got more and more down and the world seemed more dark. Covid probably didn't help, but for a while I have been using some over the counter sleep pills (valerian and melatonin) and I feel much better!
Edit, also vitamin D, having low vitamin D also really fucks up your mood and health. If you don't live in a place like California, just take some vitD supplements daily.
I credit Vitamin D with curing my lifelong insomnia.
Also, abbreviating Vitamin D as VD may raise some eyebrows
Take the hate and loathing you feel for yourself and project it outward and dump it on people who are powerless to fight back. Best bit of counseling advice you'll get.
Thanks now I hate myself and everybody else too
Congratulations! You just earned a new career in IT!
And if you're tall and good looking, wear a suit while you do it. You'll get promoted quickly!
(Sadly not as sarcastic as I wish it were)
1. Yes, you can still get the disease if you are fully vaccinated.
2. The vaccine (Pfizer) is still 96% effective at protecting against hospitalization and 100% effective at protecting against mortality from delta [\[Source\]](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vaccines-highly-effective-against-hospitalisation-from-delta-variant)
3. Reported cases of people who have been double vaccinated but have gotten the delta variant, say it feels like the sniffles.
4. News headlines are usually great exaggerated, fear mongering BS, with little basis in actual facts/science.
Source: I am a medical professional and researcher
Edit: Just to add to my points above, the numbers I have mentioned only hold true for fully vaccinated individuals (Pfizer). The numbers for the other mRNA vaccine (Moderna) are comparable while Astrazeneca/Covishield performed slightly more poorly against the delta variant in the metrics of hospitalization and death. However, mixing doses i.e. Astrazeneca + Pfizer/Moderna, has repeatedly been shown to produce higher antibody titres and a more diverse antibody repertoire, thus providing higher protection than either of the vaccines alone.
**The bottom line is - Please get your second shot as soon as it becomes available to you. A single dose isn't going to cut it against any of the variants.**
Edit 2: So many people seem to have completely missed the point here. STOP FLOODING MY REPLIES WITH NEWS ARTICLES. That's my entire point! News articles are exaggerated half-truths that don't accurately reflect the reality of the vaccines can and can't do.
Edit 3: [Here's an easy-to-understand graph of how our adaptive immune response works and why we need a second dose.](https://opentextbc.ca/biology/wp-content/uploads/sites/96/2015/03/Figure_42_02_10.jpg)
Ikr? Every article only ever talks about pfizer and Moderna.. like what about J&J????
Pfizer and Moderna started their testing much earlier, and around the same time too, so they have similar results and effectiveness. J&J was tested later in 2020, and was tested with some of the variants too, meaning it has a lower efficacy (but is still just as effective as the other two).
Makes sense anything that isn’t Pfizer or Moderna isn’t mainstream, but…yeah, still. Why *aren’t* we hearing about effectiveness for other vaccines?
I completely forgot there even was a J&J vaccine. I don't believe its an option here in Canada
it wasn't - the J&J shots we recieved were tainted from that awful Baltimore manufacturing plant so the Feds decided to buy more Pfizer and Moderna instead.
I think the relaxed cold storage requirements for the mRNA vaccines also took away one of the big advantages the J&J shot had too.
J&J 91+% effective against severe/critical COVID after six weeks, you're fine.
They would have been screaming from the top of buildings for J&J-ers to get another dose if it was necessary, don't let nobodies on reddit freak you out.
Good point. They literally shut down production and told the whole world about 6 blood clots out of 6 million doses. If it wasn’t effective, we would hear about it.
Really depends on your overall risk profile, but provided you're not part of any vulnerable population there is no indication that you need a "booster" at this point. If data surfaces showing J&J to provide insufficient protection you're pretty much guaranteed to hear about it.
What I'm wondering and not hearing any news coverage about is children.
I have two young children. My husband and I are fully vaccinated, but they can't be. One is starting kindergarten in August, and I will likely return to work and my younger one (18 months) will end up going to daycare part-time. Apparently . . . this is safe? And kids being reopened places is safe, I guess? All of the kids play places and stuff are fully reopening?
Are these variants pretty safe for little kids? They aren't vaccinated and no one ever tells us what the advice is for them which is honestly worrying. When the advice is given, it only ever seems to be about adults who are or aren't vaccinated. And the unvaccinated adult advice is mostly to get vaccinated, which obviously don't apply.
The honest answer is that we don't know much about the variants in children. What we do know so far is that while children are more likely to get the variant, they are quite likely not going to be severely affected as was the case with the other strains. We have seen time and time again, that children fare incredibly well against this virus (thanks to their immune systems) and the reason most coverage is about vaccinating the adults is because children in this case act as carriers rather than suffering from the illness.
I do sympathize with your concern for your children, and although not 100% reassuring, I hope I've been able to put you slightly more at ease.
Could you elaborate on what it is about children's immune system makes them better suited at resisting? I was of the understanding that our immune system gets stronger as we get older as it will have been exposed to, and built defences for, a greater number of threats. In fact, as far as my understanding is concerned, babies start with no, or very weak, immune systems and depend on antibodies from their mother via breast milk and then build up their own army of antibodies as they get older and are exposed to various bacteria and viruses.
The answer to this is two fold really. Generally speaking, we are born with an innate immune system that closely mimics that of our mother. Therefore from birth till just about weaning, our bodies are protected by our innate immune system. This is the part of the immune system that is rather in-discriminatory and attacks anything "foreign" that it encounters. As we get older and get exposed to more pathogens in our daily lives, our adaptive immune system (the part of our immune system that makes specific antibodies against specific pathogens) starts building up and the innate immune takes a bit of a back seat and only really functions as a rudimentary first-line of defense. However, as we grow older, our adaptive immune system weakens.
In the case of COVID-19 specifically, we don't know exactly why they are doing better, but the current leading theories are:
(1) the SARS-CoV-2 virus replicates in the nasopharynx, and children have extremely underdeveloped sinuses until about age 12. Therefore, the virus is not able to replicate efficiently before being cleared out by the child's immune system.
(2) Children generally don't have any serious health conditions which seems to be a driving factor for severe illness from this virus.
(3) Because children have much more effective innate immune systems, the viral loads are cleared much more efficiently than in adults. Adults seem to be getting the worse of this because of a not-so-great innate immune system that goes into overdrive resulting a [cytokine storm](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7527296/) that ends up damaging the lungs.
Hope this helps!
I think you mean that our *innate* immune system begins to take a back seat, right?
With this particular virus it’s the fact that kids have less ACE2 receptors so the virus can’t bind and enter their cells. So kids aren’t really affected as much as adults
Kids are also more resilient in general and can bounce back from things way better then adults can. The immune system starts off weak but develops. It peaks in young adulthood and then gradually starts getting weaker over time. This is why babies and the elderly are usually grouped together as high risk groups
With Covid, it's your immune system overworking itself that causes most of the issues related to it.
Also, and I'm not a doctor so I might be understanding this wrong, but children have a weaker/no *learned* immune system, but conversely they have a very strong *innate* immune system.
I know the mortality rate in children is crazy low. One post I just googled said it’s 0.03%. But have there been any studies on long term effects? I remember seeing some studies early on about long term effects on the cardiovascular system in adults, but it was still fairly early, so I don’t know if our understanding has changed since then or if we know anything more about children.
I don’t worry at all about my kids dying from covid, but I do worry about long term health effects if they were to catch it.
One question that I have that I usually don't see any time given to is; despite being vaccinated, if still to get an infection from the virus and the body to fight it off to prevent from a serious case, doesn't the person still face potential long term affects that have been observed? I remember reading how the virus can strangely affect different organs and just odd behavior in general.
I would think the same would also apply to young children who cannot yet get the vaccine. While symptoms from an infection may not be serious, what long term damage does the virus do to their bodies?
Yeah, I've never been clear about this. It's great that I'm fully Pfizered and probably wouldn't even notice if I get the Delta variant or whatever, but does that mean I'm also nearly immune to the long term damage, too? And if I unknowingly spread it to my children, and "they're fine" with any luck, does that also mean they don't need to worry about long term effects?
Great, I'm not hospitalized, but I'd like to also avoid lifelong cardiovascular and neurological damage in my kids.
This has been my #1 concern for a while…I get the virus and beat it yay, party emoji. Even with evidence of weird parallel health effects people somehow act like just getting it out of their system means they’re a-ok.
I work in a field where I take a semi-rigorous annual physical exam to be qualified for my job, which I fucking love (the job not the finger up the butt). Anyway, I may feel the sniffles, but lose my livelihood?…yeah this virus is still pretty damn scary if you ask me.
I’m specifically talking about EKG/heart-related irregularities.
Just to make sure I understand correctly -- it takes two weeks after the second jab before it's fully effective, right?
And what's this about mixing doses? I didn't realize that was an option.
That is correct. About 14 days after getting the second dose before the vaccination is fully effective. This is also "news" of people getting seriously ill or dying from the virus after getting the second dose is entirely unreliable because they always conveniently seem to forget to mention how long it had been since said patient had received their dose or literally any number of extenuating circumstances that could have lead to their death.
As for mixing doses, it is indeed a thing now. [https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01359-3](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01359-3). If you are due for a second shot, you should be able to ask the immunizer to give you a different vaccine to that of your first.
My understanding the dose mixing option is not an approved option for the USA. It is in England however. That's where I heard about it.
Here’s an NYT article about it:
Relevant part here:
If I’m vaccinated, do I need to worry?
The Delta variant is unlikely to pose much risk to people who have been fully vaccinated, experts said.
“If you’re fully vaccinated, I would largely not worry about it,” said Dr. Ashish K. Jha, dean of the Brown University School of Public Health.
According to one recent study, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 88 percent effective at protecting against symptomatic disease caused by Delta, nearly matching its 93 percent effectiveness against the Alpha variant. But a single dose of the vaccine was just 33 percent effective against Delta, the study found.
TL;DR: Pfizer is 88% effective against the delta variant, as opposed to 93% for primary strains.
Directly from the CDC:
So far, studies suggest that the current authorized vaccines work on the circulating variants. Scientists will continue to study these and other variants.
What about Moderna?
Basically every study that comes out ends up showing that Moderna is roughly equal to Pfizer in terms of efficacy, which makes sense as they are the same mechanism and only slightly different delivery methods. I would expect the number to end up looking the same.
And no one ever talk about J&J vaccine
Yeah, as someone who got the J&J jab, this makes me nervous
Some are calling for Pfizer / Moderna to be a booster shot to those who had J&J
FYI: "Alpha" is (somewhat confusingly) not the original strain, it's the variant previously known as the "UK variant" (B.1.1.7). The original strain has no such name.
Wait, where is delta from, India?
Delta was previously called "the Indian variant", yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2
Just to chime in but FHI, the Norwegian Health Institute estimated one dose of Pfizer to be 65% secure up from 33%. Don't have a source now but they generally are very cautios about their numbers etc.
Edit: source in Norwegian
I think my main concern would be two things, asymptomatic spread of the delta variant through vaccinated individuals and the delta variant mutating again to a breakout variant that goes around the vaccines. The first one I'm not sure if we've figured out yet, whether or not vaccinated individuals can spread the virus inadvertently, though please correct me if I'm wrong. The second one is something you can't see coming, but at the same time you can also prevent through vaccination. That fact alone makes vaccination all the more important to stave off future mutations
Reuters published an article with experts (UK health officials I think) citing 90% effectiveness. Edit: added article.
Remember that the WHO makes worldwide recommendations. Parts of the world are using a much less effective vaccine, so they have to make the most conservative recommendation for the worst case scenario.
[This thread on AskScience](https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/o6ao2v/how_effective_is_the_jj_vaxx_against/h2rtlbu/) will probably explain.
Spoilers: variants are normal, the media is blowing them out of proportion, a truly outstanding mutation of the virus is very unlikely, and if you're fully vaccinated you are equally well protected against all variants.
This is really the info that people need to know. The media is having a fucking field day with the variants as if we're starting from square 1.
Delta Airlines 🙁”hey uh, can we change its name maybe to the United or American variant?”
Corona Beer "Fuck off, Delta"
They should colab on new Corona Delta, exclusive on Delta Air flights
Corona Delta+ so much flavor you can taste it even if you have covid.
Give this guy a job in marketing. ASAP!
If Corona beer had to suck it up for the last 15 months, Delta can deal with this.
“Because we’re the delta variant, and life is a fucking nightmare”
Why the fuck should I know? You're the journalist, you figure out whose urging fully vaccinated people to continue to wear masks...
Priceless. Worth reading through a lot of garbage to get to this.
Jonathan Foster: “If someone says it's raining and another person says it's dry, it's not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out the [expletive] window and find out which is true.”
Took me way to long to get this
Needed a nice giggle in the morning, thanks
This was a nice one
“People cannot feel safe just because they had the two doses.“
That statement right there is why there are still so many people who won’t bother getting vaccinated.
I've worked the entire pandemic in a hospital kitchen. I would be genuinely surprised if I don't have to wear a mask for the rest of my career. I'm over the drama.
Edit: I should probably also say that I don't really have a problem with it. It's probably more hygienic, which is always better when handling food.
I worked in a hospital kitchen for a few months during the pandemic, and I was very surprised when we were offered the Pfizer vaccine in January and half our department didn’t even want it.
My sister works at a nursing home that had an outbreak. She even had a few other covid scares, including her daughter being symptomatic and testing positive. Quite a few times during the worst of the pandemic, she was an emotional wreck.
She doesn’t want the vaccine.
What's her rationale? Has she got other vaccines?
She’s had other vaccines and her kids have too, but she’s always been a little hesitant.
Regarding the covid vaccine, she says she’s worried about negative long-term effects.
Wait until she finds out about some of the long-term effects people have gotten from covid.
It's been almost 8 months and my sense of smell is still terrible. I have asthma and it took 3-4 months to be able to breathe okay. My hr still jumps to the 120s just standing/walking around and my doctor doesn't know why. This was from mild disease.
I was careful. I lived with an essential worker who had a heart attack and died at 46, three weeks after recovering from mild covid. He was normal bmi and had a very active job. Fine one day and then dying in the icu the next.
Edit: I can't believe that I have to add this on the way home from my dad's memorial service, but I am telling you what the doctors told me when I took him off life support. So unless you were one of his doctors, you can kindly fuck off with your covid skepticism bullshit. It's not welcome here.
I have some clients who are in their late 20s and are suffering from pulmonary issues and the wife is constantly being monitored for brain bleeds. This was after they both had a pretty serious case of covid last summer. The 'it's just the flu' people really need to fuck off
Two of my friends lost their sense of smell in March of 2020. Only one of them is starting to get it back but he says it's weird and not like what it was.
What's scary is that it might be brain damage.
These are two people that had very mild cases and only got tested because they are nurses.
I’m so sorry for your unspeakable loss.
Thank you. We are actually having his outdoor memorial today. We waited until everyone was vaccinated to have it.
Have you gotten the vaccine? A friend of mine's husband was a "long hauler", one of the people who still had covid symptoms for months and months after he first got it. The day after he got the second vaccine, he felt the best he's felt since he got covid last year. That was a couple of months ago, and he's still doing much better. I hope you haven't had the vaccine yet, so that there's a chance you'll improve significantly.
I’m sorry to hear that. The loss of sense of smell/taste are neurological in nature. We still have no idea the scale of long-term complications of this novel virus. We will look back 15 years from now lamenting, “if only we would’ve known xyz, then we would’ve taken this more seriously.”
I'm certainly worried about the COVID-19 version of shingles but the only thing that can be done (besides vaccinate against the primary infection) is wait for a few decades to see if that's a thing that shows up.
I have a coworker who is normally not anti-vax, but she told me she wouldn't get the covid vaccine because her research says that it was rushed and that we won't know whether it's safe or not for at least 10 years.
My understanding is the riskiest part of the mrna covid vaccines was the mrna portion of it which was already nearly a decade into testing for the SARS vaccine (yes I know covid-19 is technically a variant of SARS). So I was fine with the Moderna vaccine. Pfizer-biontech I think use a similar method in their vaccine.
As someone who went to school for this, yes.
mRNA vaccines have been in development for years. I learned about them long before Covid and they are some truly amazing science. We should be able to apply this mRNA technique to any pathogen we know the DNA/RNA sequence of to make a vaccine, and that is BIG. The biggest challenge in making a vaccine is how to effectively show your immune system the pathogen, and this solves that.
I remember reading about mRNA vaccine tech as far back as 2011 or 2012 in regards to them working on using it to make a universal flu vaccine. Also in recent news they have a potential vaccine candidate for malaria using mRNA tech. If that turns out to be viable that alone would save more human lives each year than anything since perhaps the invention of sanitation or antibiotics.
Well your coworker is wrong.
We generally know whether vaccines are safe pretty quickly - unlike medications you take over a long period of time, you take a vaccine once (or twice in this case), and once the vaccine reagents are out of your system (in days) and the immune response is done (in weeks), what conceivable other issue could happen?
Like... there’s nothing in your body to do anything...
I always ask these people - what causal mechanism are you thinking would cause an issue ten years down the line? Like how are you seeing that work?
The only part that was rushed was essentially manufacturing. The US Gov't ensured they would even buy ineffective doses if they started manufacturing at the beginning of the trials. Normally manufacturing starts after approval.
That's not how vaccine approval works but ok
I always think, maybe, but I’m far more concerned about the long term effects of COVID on my body. You know, the thing that’s already been demonstrated to have terrible long term effects. I feel lucky to have Pfizer whenever I think about it.
I've heard other people say this too. But WTF? How are we ever supposed to know if anything is ok, just wait for some idiot to try it then wait ten years while everyone else gets sick or dies? Like we can't ever predict the safety of anything based on past results and good science?
What’s the demographic of your staff/coworkers
Mostly older than me (I’m late 30s), almost entirely female, and about half white.
That sounds like a kitchen hospital my dude. It's odd how the industry pays for skilled labor. You'd think it'd be more balanced.
nah I can confirm people even working at major hospitals are given the choice to not be vaccinated - there are plenty of working at important hospitals, who are hesitant on vaccination (I don't agree with them)
Source: friends and family who are actual nurses and doctors at major hospitals
It's mostly nurses. According to the American medical association, 96% of doctors in the US are vaccinated.
This shouldn't surprise anyone, it's the same here in the UK. Nurses do an awesome job and they should be highly valued by society for what they do, but they're not educated to the level of doctors. Some nurses believe in homeopathy and essential oils, they're everyday people.
> they're everyday people
Unfortunately, they're worse. They've got just enough medical knowledge to get hit with a giant dose of Dunning–Kruger effect and significantly overestimate their own ability to make medical and scientific judgements, and that's compounded by the "legitimacy" that their title renders them in terms of other people also believing in their judgements.
Some of the worst cases of unintentional animal abuse that I see as a veterinarian are nurses trying to self-manage their own pets' medical issues. I can only imagine how much harm goes undocumented in human healthcare from nurses ignoring or overriding MDs because they think they know as much or more than doctors.
Yup, had a nurse tell me that praying and having a close relationship with god would help me with my ADHD
Yup, dated a girl briefly and she was trying to get her nursing license in California but kept failing the test, she fully believed in Eastern hollisitic medicine and that western medicine made people sick...
People should be banned from taking care of patients if they don't believe in the care they are required to give them
My school's nurse is a rabid anti masker and hasn't worn hers properly the entire year sigh.
Most school nurses are not nurses. They're Medical Assistants if they have *any* form of medical background.
Very few districts want to pony up for an actual Nurse, and very few Nurses are willing to put their licenses on the line for what school districts expect.
You don't have to sugar coat it. Some dumb, selfish people are nurses.
I'm in the midwest and 2 large hospital systems in my state have made COVID vaccines mandatory. I have 3 out of 18 nursing staff applying for exemptions and I doubt any will get approved. Come September 1st, the deadline to be fully vaccinated, we will lose staff. Other hospitals will be following suit.
I work at a doctors office. We have about 25 people who work there, and only three turned down the vaccine. (All three are front office staff.)
My buddy is a dermatologist and he said roughly 20% of the practice turned it down after he spent days getting enough vaccines scheduled for the whole crew (mind you this was like early early vaccine rollout so this was no small feat). He called me in quite a tizzy lol
life lesson: just because someone is a nurse or doctor, doesn't mean they're immune from being stupid
I also work in hospital and have roughly 20 more years of a career there. I will wear a mask every single shift I’m in that place. In hindsight it should’ve always been that way
You are 100% right. For the amount of inconvenience it is, because it is just an inconvenience to wear, versus the potential benefit of overall hygiene. Added to the fact that we already did it, it didn't cost too much, and it wasn't that big of a goddammit deal, since it's a fucking hospital, seems like the thing to do. But yeah it's inconvenient.
My hospital is removing the requirement for vaccinated employees to wear masks in non-clinical areas starting in July. We're just over 70% vaccinated
Florida already checked out of this debate. About 90% of the people in my area don’t wear masks anywhere. You’re now the outcast if you do wear a mask.
It's the same thing in Colorado. The CDC specifically said that vaccinated people don't need to wear masks, so no one is wearing masks now
So it makes sense people don't have masks
Same for Georgia. Masks are almost non existent
I live north of Atlanta. Everyone wore masks until the CDC said it’s okay not to wear them if you’re vaccinated. Maybe it is different in the rural areas
I’m north east of Atlanta. People were wearing masks more before the cdc announcement. But now almost no one wears
I was in Wyoming for 3 days and I don't think I saw a single mask the whole time.
I'd like to say that the sheer number of people in these comments just hurling bunk statistics and completely misinterpreted data around is shocking... but it's not.
56.87% of redditors post wrong statistics.
110% of all statistics are completely made up.
Honestly won't happen. People aren't going to go back to wearing them after having a month without them.
People are exhausted. I wore my mask, I got my vaccination, I was isolated for an entire year in self quarantine. If there's a new strain popping up every few months causing a panic... well, let's just say I don't have the energy left to care anymore.
I think it's important to considering what you're caring about. You got vaccinated, you isolated and masked up when before one was available.
If using a mask now is about lowing your risk by a few percentage points, and protecting those who are just being irresponsible for their own health that's not exhaustion. That's just you being reasonable.
We can all live like the boy in the bubble, or where space suits whenever we leave our houses. Or we can accept that their is an inherent risk to living our lives and not all precautions are reasonable.
My father caught Covid a couple months back, barely survived and got out of rehab about a month ago. The damage to his lungs was such that he needs oxygen when he sleeps, but is otherwise ok. Does anyone know how much more at risk he is for catching the delta variant even after both shots? I also want to assume that even with both shots, catching this variant is probably a death sentence for him with his condition, but I hate assuming anything.
I read that pfizer was 86% effective towards this variant, instead of its regular 95..%. Let me find where.
Edit: According to [this](https://www.google.nl/amp/s/www.fox10phoenix.com/news/study-delta-variant-can-reduce-pfizer-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness.amp) study pfizer is 88% effective against it this is after 2 weeks of your second dose.
BionTech did hell of a job. BionTech vaccine is really good
Sorry to hear this mate, best wishes
I’m vaccinated I’m done with the masks to be honest
Michigan just opened up completely this past week. Maybe 1 in 20 people still wear a mask.
I don’t think there’s any going back for a large amount of people, even many logical, reasonable people. 15 months of masks was already too much for this country to handle. People want normalcy, delta variant be damned.
Edit: I did not expect wake up today to 85 comments.
15 months was frankly impressive. San Fran was the only major city that attempted a mask mandate during the Spanish Flu and even though it worked wonders 99% of the city stopped following it after a few months.
Even here in the "Communist Hellhole" that is California as soon as the state dropped the mask mandate a few weeks ago mask wearing dropped sharply.
A lot of people are still wearing their masks and even sometimes I'll see double-maskers, but I'd say mask wearing dropped 50% or more in a week.
> I don’t think there’s any going back for a large amount of people, even many logical, reasonable people.
Heard from a lot of vaccinated individuals that they're done giving a fuck. They've done their part for over year and got their shots. They sacrificed over a year of their life, lost loved ones and lost jobs. They're done with mask wearing, done caring about their about other people who never wore masks and will never get vaccinated. They just want to go back to normal because they don't believe the other half of the country will ever care.
I can't say I don't understand. I'd still like to think most people are good reasonable people, but the pandemic sure has made me much more cynical and jaded than I was before.
Honestly… that’s where I’m at. I did everything right. EVERYTHING. But I had family members who didn’t give a fuck, and actively ridiculed me for advocating for masks and vaccines.
My brother in law went to the hospital for 175 days. He now has the lung capacity of a 90 year old, lost all of his toes, and will also be losing most of his fingers.
It didn’t matter. Some people just couldn’t be convinced that masks and the vaccine are helpful.
And now that I have my shot… I guess I’ll just let what comes to pass… come to pass.
My sister, my other brother in law… her kids… my grandma. I can’t help you all anymore if this comes through. I’m not going through all the fights, the anger and the getting shamed for trying to help again.
I tried to make them listen.
Edit: there are a lot of questions about what happened to my brother in law, so I’ll try to elaborate.
(My details probably aren’t perfect… it’s been a long year and I don’t fully understand everything that occurred.)
He contracted Covid early in 2020. Around April I believe. During his 175 days in the hospital (not counting rehab afterwards) he was put into a medically induced coma for several weeks. Went on ECMO for several weeks… and ultimately lost most of his lung capacity. During one day he went through 30 bags of blood to stay alive. He should have died - but he pulled through.
Being on Ecmo for so long resulted in him developing (or causing the immersion of) Disseminated intravascular coagulation. Basically a rare blood disease that impacts the bodies ability to clot properly. This was one of the reasons his hemorrhaged so extremely.
Up to contracting Covid he was a happy, albeit somewhat obese man (somewhere in the 240-260 range), in his thirties.
Covid destroyed his lungs, his blood, his fingers and toes. It either caused or amplified the effects of a blood disorder he never knew he had. But he survived. And he’s finally at home with his family. He will never be the same - but he’s fighting still.
You completely captured where I’m at right now and I think a lot of us feel this way at this point. I really only worry about people who are immunocompromised and who have been since the beginning. Everyone else who refuses to get vaccinated aren’t my problem anymore.
That's where I'm at too.
My wife and I are fully vaccinated. If the delta variant comes and starts fucking up unvaccinated people then... Well, sucks to suck, I guess.
They made their choice. It's a stupid one, but they made it.
I even thought… hey I’ll get vaccinated and that will prove to them it’s safe.
Nope. They still don’t trust it. Sucked in by Facebook mom conspiracy theories.
I thought something similar. I work in healthcare so I have been vaccinated since January. I was able to prove to my family that the side effects weren’t too bad so it was worth it. My mom and older sister are nurses so they were more or less required to take it and they convinced my dad to take it as well. No one else in my family will take it. My other (pregnant) sister, brother-in-law, and their 2 children got covid last year but still nope. “Everyone they have met that got sick were fine” is their excuse. They live in rural Texas so I can’t say I’m surprised but it’s a bit of a shock to realize just how stupid your family is.
I will probably be wearing a mask at work for the foreseeable future but I’ll be damned if I have to wear one outside of work too. Me and all my friends are vaccinated so fuck the unvaccinated, I’m done.
Kids aren't yet though. And yeah, they survive great but will they have long term effects?
Not trying to make you feel shitty, maybe just hold off that attitude until the kids can get jabs. My daughter is about to turn one.
It's hilarious how these people will scream about the government "stealing their freedom" by telling them to wear a mask, but use the "not FDA approved" excuse to justify their anti-vaxxing. Like suddenly, the approval of the government they've been against for so long is important to them.
My family has several COVID deniers. My wife and I have followed every guideline, skipped family vacations (25+ in a single house), and got vaccinated. They still think it’s a hoax and that the government is using it to control people. I explained that I’m going to have a hard time finding compassion if they get sick. They pretty much told me I was an asshole.
Some of my wife's family are like that too. They refuse the vaccine, and then when we tell them they're probably going to get covid eventually they get really mad. Presumably if they actually thought it was a hoax they wood laugh off the idea of getting covid.
The whole conversation was super bizarre.
Yup. The vast majority of the people who will get fucked up by covid at this point are those who chose to put themselves in that position. I have no sympathy for them. Open everything up and let nature sort them out. They've had numerous chances.
I know your pain and frustration.
I'm "fortunate" in that my family only lost a few people to COVID and a few that were hospitalized did pull through. Yet, I still got idiots in my family that never took the pandemic seriously and still don't.
I remember when my grandma was still moving around enjoying life and a month later she died in the hospital by herself after also spending Christmas and NYE alone on a ventilator.
I remember when my fit healthy 51 year old uncle called his sister crying and gasping for breath that he was going to die that day and he was going to drive himself to the hospital or die trying.
I remember when my counsin's fiancee lost her mother and grandma in the same week.
Yet, I had a Covidiot in my family the other day argue with another family member that lost someone to Covid that is wasn't Covid that killed them because "something something Joe Rogan podcast something something, gym bros said it's not Covid"
I used to emphatically call out their bullshit, but now I just shake my head and sip my beer.
Holy cow man… I’ve been fortunate enough not to lose anyone close to me… I couldn’t imagine losing someone and STILL denying.
My father's family is fucking huge (18 siblings, all married with 3-12 kids). There was exactly one serious COVID case in the family, and he passed on a ventilator. They don't blame the disease. They literally blamed *the treatment*. Some people have been so self-absorbed for the last 15 months.
I'm so sorry. That sounds awful. Fuck all of this.
The world's we live in are so different. In my world, everyone I know took the pandemic seriously, isolated, masked and vaccinated at the first available opportunity. Many drove for hours to get the vaccine. No one in my family was touched by this disease. For us, in practical terms it's like it never existed.
Terrible to hear how there is a whole nother world where people can see the effects of the disease with their own eyes, but still chose to believe a bunch of lies about made up shit they've never seen evidence for in their real lives.
it's terrible. But kind of not terribly surprising. I mean half the country is in horrible health because they don't take seriously the guidance on diet and exercise. My friends and family are also reasonably fit because they follow the standard advice about eating right and getting activity. It's not really surprising for a lot of people when another set of health recommendations come along they don't follow those either.
That’s where I’m at. I made my entire family get negative tests before the 10 of us got together over Christmas. Made them agree not to see friends, wouldn’t let extended family come over. The DAY I LEFT they had a huge family party with my 88yo grandmother in attendance. Two weeks later she was dead. Had an aunt in the hospital who’s never going to be the same physically.
I have a kid with a lung disease I’m just trying to protect. And no one gives a shit. So we’re just doing outside stuff and planning on another year at least of homeschool and masks everywhere else.
Fuck everyone who wouldn’t do their part, some of us are literally just trying to survive.
Same here. My family actively ridiculed me, my mother, and my brother. She literally cried on the phone. We were the only ones that missed thanksgiving, Christmas, etc... everyone else throwing big parties all year with no social distancing, masks, etc... until they got both my 90+ year old grandparents sick. My grandpa spent a week on oxygen with pneumonia and thankfully pulled through. But he’s super weak and frail now, I doubt he lives more than a few more years now. He was a fuckin ox of a man before he caught this. I finally saw him for the first time a couple weeks ago and it about broke me.
I really don’t know if I’ll ever forgive them for what they did the past year. For fuck sake, some of them KNEW they were tested positive and were asymptomatic - they went all over town maskless and spread this disease everywhere.
I feel the way you feel. I did everything as I was supposed to and I live in NYC. I had Covid early (like February 2020) on and at a time that the rest of the country was pointing at us going “it’s a New York problem, fuck it.”
I was trapped in my house and couldn’t even take transportation or get in a car to just drive to get out of the house. I distanced, I wore the mask, and the day I was eligible to get the vaccine, I did. I haven’t left NY since before the pandemic.. still. My mother is so angry with me and calls me a coward because I refused to travel to Michigan to see her.
I’m really over people coming at me telling me that I’m selfish or haven’t done my part because now I am ready to take my mask off and move on with my life. I’m fully vaccinated and have done my part while people all over the place don’t give a shit and won’t even acknowledge Covid (and a lot of them probably voted for an administration that would have let a lot more people just drop dead). But yeah, I’m the selfish one now. Not here for that at all and yeah, I’m moving on with my life.
And if somehow the Pfizer vaccine fails and I get Covid and die, ok. Because the life I’ve been living has not been worth living if THIS is it forever. You take away hope, you take away people being able to enjoy life, and ask them to do it FOREVER because of something that might happen, and that’s how you get people tuning out entirely.
Is this SoCal? Because in SF a lot of people still wear masks, especially indoors.
Cries in Ontario. We’re slowly coming out of our 3rd lockdown. I just had my second dose, Canada has delayed second doses to get more people the first dose. We’re now the leading country in first doses. Wearing a mask is still mandatory, they made it a bylaw to get into any business. I doubt that will change before 2022.
Never tell me the odds!
What are my odds of being killed by an exasperated infectious disease expert?
2099: Just two more weeks of socially distancing guys, we're almost ready to enter phase 1 of reopening. Phase 2 begins next decade.
I guess the TVA isn't gonna step in and stop this variant then huh?
The cases per million in my state are now in the single digits per million (source: Bloomberg), with one of the highest vax rates. I will make my decisions based on the case rate. If that is clearly spiking back to pre-April numbers, I'll start wearing a mask and begin to socially distance.
It makes absolutely no sense to socially distance while the cases are so low thanks to high vaccine adoption in my area. The premise that we should exercise caution because people aren't vaccinated in other parts of the world makes little sense, as few people are travelling internationally.
I decide based off the data for my area, not the most cautious expert generalizing for the world.
My mom is a diehard anti-vaxxer and she is adamant that I don’t get vaccinated. I promised her I wouldn’t ever get the “death jab” shortly after I got my second dose. The irony is that I got it for her. I don’t want to get her sick.
My aunt (70, diabetic, overweight) refuses to get the vaccine because she said she “heard it has a little bit of the virus already in it!”. There’s is such a misunderstanding about how vaccines work.
There is a bit of the (dead) virus in some of the vaccines. The non-mRNA ones.
The entire irony is that people are able to be anti-vax because of how well vaccines have worked. They don't get to see their children grow up in Iron lungs, they don't get to see people's skin hemorrhaging or turning translucent and their bones turning to mush. They have the luxury of being anti-vax because they don't get to personally experience all the diseases we've gotten rid of.
And yet there are numerous reports of anti vaxxers who were on their death bed, dying from covid still claiming its a hoax.
At that point its just sunk cost fallacy. They've spend so much time telling everyone how its a hoax that now it would be pretty embarrasing to back down, might as well double down and probably die.
It's not just embarassment, they'd have to admit that their entire world view is wrong, and that faith and intuition are not as good as data and evidence. That's just not going to happen for a lot of people.
Right? The idea that they were wrong, and have been this whole time, and have to accept that they need to re-build their understanding of the world, is absolutely terrifying. They would rather die than face that terrifying fact, and many do in fact die.
"My ego is worth more than my life"
Should go on their tombstones.
That's not surprising or contradictory. They're only going to double down when dying. They aren't going to admit they were wrong when they're terrified.
But family members and friends should see that and change their mind. The most extreme deniers would take more than one example.
Just like in a world where people are constantly exposed to various diseases.
And they also get to continue to think they're right when those close to them lie about not getting vaccinated and then don't catch the disease.
International travel forced my dad to get it. He wanted to see my grandmother, his mother, in his home country but could only do it if he were vaccinated, so he got it. Then he didn’t have the side effects anti-vaxxers like my aunt (his sister) said he’d have, and he read up on efficacy, so he convinced my grandmother in the home country to get it. Now they’re both vaxxed, I’m vaxxed, and our aunt and her fam are still not. They just believe their immune systems are strong enough to handle it, which is *probably* true but (1) why risk it; (2) why deal with potentially a few days of being sick; and (3) why risk possible long covid symptoms?
just tell her you got the vaccine. what's she gonna do cry? maybe she'll figure out that you might have a better head on your shoulders with that type of thing than she does and follow suit
I've watched some really funny YouTube and tik tok videos where people have sat their parents down to reveal they've gotten the vaccine and after the reactions are just beyond imagination. You'd think they were just told their child had got a stage 4 cancer diagnosis.
This reminds me of the movie Love, Simon. It's about a kid who is nervous about coming out as gay and he wonders why straight kids don't have to come out to their parents as straight.
So there are these scenes of all his friends sitting down their parents and saying "mom, dad, I'm...a heterosexual!"
Their reactions are funny.
It's in the trailer.
My favorite movie from 2018!
I nearly died in March/April 2020 from COVID. Despite this, my mom was against the vaccine (her bf had convinced her that the vaccines makes your infertile and the government tracks you). They weren't tested enough, she said. She about cried when I told her I was getting the vaccination. She literally began mourning the loss of my future children and freedom. I never relented and took every opportunity to tell her my late father would be disappointed in her decision to not get the vaccine... Yes, I even used the fact my dad barely survived Polio to urge her to get the shot. She's now fully vaccinated. Did I almost bully her into it? Maybe, but counteracting her toxic views to possibly save her life was a good decision and I would do it again.
Lying to her isn't going to keep her safe. You getting vaccinated is a good start, but the best protection is for *her* to be vaccinated. My mom was normally for vaccines, so in that way you kinda have your work cut out for you, but I know my mom's safety is more important than her ill-informed and uneducated pride.
So is my mom and I take every chance I can get to tell her I’m vaccinated and have no problem telling her she’s an idiot. Stop placating, you are prolly one of the few people that could ever change their mind.
You just gotta start laughing at this shit at a certain point.
The horse is so far out of the barn on this one that it's just not gonna happen.
At least not in the US where tons of people have already been vaccinated.
The people most likely to wear a mask a) are also the ones most likely to have gotten the vaccine and thus b) the ones who need to wear a mask the least.
Most of the deaths and infections are from unvaxxed people, and they're least likely to wear a mask, even if they need to the most.
Vaccines prevent severe disease even with the Delta variant. Moving the goalposts this late in the game just increases vaccine hesitancy even more - why bother getting the vaccine if it doesn’t get you back to a normal life?
At this point, let the antivax get sick if they don’t want to protect themselves. The only counter argument that makes sense to me is that children can’t get it yet, but if it’s that severe a problem for children, maybe we just need to treat approval for children with the same urgency we treated approval for adults. And if children don’t generally have a hard time of it, then it’s not really a counter-argument at all.
Immunocompromised folks are the real losers. My buddy has no vaccine response because his antirejection drugs basically nerfed his body’s ability to learn from the vaxx. Hundreds of thousands of people have transplants and aren’t protected by the vaccine.
EDIT: people undergoing cancer treatments also seem to have a lower immune response to the vaccines. That is a whole lot of folks.
Coming from a current EMT and gamer, I’ve never seen “nerfed” used in a medical context. Thank you haha. That is unfortunate though, such a shit situation. I hope he stays safe.
Heh... Nerfed immune system instead of Immune-compromised... I'm using this from now on.
Hey man, tell your buddy to keep asking, had a pharmacist buddy tell me they had a kidney transplant patient finally show antibodies after a very controversial third shot (controversial in that there was no protocol even though he was game to try from the start. Corporate okayed it after RX from Doctor).
Yeah, I saw something about this as well. [The 3rd shot seems to get an immune response in compromised peeps.](https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/06/23/metro/studies-third-dose-covid-19-vaccine-offer-hope-immunocompromised/)
Good luck having Americans put mask back on.
Maybe I'm missing the point but wearing a mask to protect those who are 'exercising their freedom' by not getting the vaccine is infringing on my ability to not wear a mask due to being vaccinated. They chose to skip the shot, sorry. Tired of protecting those that care zero about me.
I thought things were getting normal again. I just want to start dating again. Haven't touched a girl in what feels like forever