Judge in Britney Spears case denies motion to remove father from conservatorship
By - 404user
This isn’t over yet
> The next hearing in the case is currently scheduled for July 14. It is possible that Spears will submit a petition for the conservatorship to be terminated.
I hope she gets her rights back, this is so wrong.
She can't even hire a lawyer and has to rely on a court appointed attorney to defeat a lawyer being paid with the millions she's earned. It's fucking baffling to me.
The fact that she’s funding the person who is arguing to deny her rights blows my mind.
Legally speaking, what the fuck is happening? How can normal people without law degrees see how wrong this but people who are the beacon of morality and justice cannot? I'm very confused and concerned lol
Shes fighting her father in court, but since her father is her conservator, he is legally able to spend her money to defend himself. It’s a really fucked up situation the more details you find out.
The fact that this hasn't ended in violence is kind of surprising. It seems like she's being subjected to a form of slavery. How she's kept it together all these years, idk.
Honestly a lot of normal people don't. I can't count the number of times this past week someone has unironically told me, "Well, I don't agree with it 100% but if you look at her IG it's obvious she's not able to take care of herself and if not for her father she'd be dead now." Wtaf?
Her IG that she clearly doesn't control and features videos of them drugging her and making her dance?
The IG that routinely features old photos and videos because she won't give her handlers new content?
How do people not see through this bullshit?
You would think some big bucks attorney would take this on pro bono. They'd get plenty of publicity. Where's Gloria Allred now? Or maybe the father even has power to say no to that. It just seems draconian.
So basically she has no rights. It's like she isn't even a citizen. Am I wrong? Please tell me I'm wrong. I wonder if she gets to choose her own groceries. Her clothes. Just how far does this go?
At the bare minimum she should be able to chose a conservator that isn't her father.
I think the court should appoint a neutral conservator and revoke her Father’s authority or ability to interfere for a period of 6 months and then review what the situation is like based on both Brittney’s feedback and that of the neutral conservator.
There’s just too many moral hazards and conflicts of interest with her father being in charge.
If she has the mental capacity to choose a conservator then she doesn't need one. And she clearly doesn't need one.
Well if she doesn't have the capacity to live without a conservator a court should absolutely appointment a unbiased and more capable one.
Watch Legal Eagle's breakdown of this. A conservator is for someone that can't function without one. It's not for someone who is bad with money or has a drug problem or is in therapy (if any of that is even applicable to Britney).
The state is somehow accepting that Britney is functionally competent enough to have released four albums, have a Vegas residency, have four tours, act in movies, raise millions of dollars with charity that required her to interact with fans and other celebrities, have joint custody of her children... but is still incapable of understanding how money works or how to feed herself. It's fucking criminal what's happened to her.
This is been going on for way too long I think her dad‘s just paying everyone off in order to keep it.
What do you mean if she doesn't have the capacity?
She's a working, performing adult, she should be making her own decisions. Regardless of what we don't know, it doesn't really matter, everyone has their own struggles including mental health and anybody working and making their own money should be able to expect a certain level of autonomy PERIOD. If her making her own decisions ruins her own legacy, then that's what happens, but we don't have the right to butt in, exploit her and tell a working adult how they can live. She SHOULD be in control of it/herself and her own destiny.
That she finally voiced that this should end and how frustrating it is, and the judge not only maintains it, but keeps her father as co-conservator is just... wow.
Meanwhile everyone including the system continues to garnish money from her in the guise of fees.. awesome. Not to mention zero people informing her of her rights and how to end this herself.
This was only supposed to be short term when she agreed to it. Conservatorships are for old people, this is just legally sanctioned abuse.
It's genuinely disgusting, I'm not a fan of Brittany by any means, just not my thing. But no one should have to deal with the drugged up basically slavery she's been subjected to. This should have ended a LONG time ago
Should never have happened in the first place.
This happens to non famous people. Adult children will say their parents are not fit, and then get all their rights. Sometimes even a cousin or aunt. They sell off their shit take their money their livelihood leave them with nothing. There was a wonderful documentary about 4 people who were of sound mind having this happen to them. One was put in a shitty home after he lost like 36 old expensive cars, his huge house and his car shop. The person who did it was like not even in his life up until she was like yeah hes not mentally well. The look of defeat as the other family members tried so hard to get his stuff back with no luck. It broke me....
Isn't that what she's already doing? How would that change the decision?
Even if the court determines that it's in her best interest to have a conservator, is there a chance this ends up with the judge appointing someone else given the history and current issues?
Wasn't that what happened a couple of years ago, where someone else was appointed to take care of everything non-financial?
Jamie Spears remains in charge of her business/finances in the conservatorship but two years ago he had health scares that caused Jodi Motgomorey to become the conservator of the more personal aspects of her estate. I think Britney’s comment about not being able to take out her IUD without conservator permission is what she was alluding to when she told the judge “even Jodi is taking things too far.”
Her IUD? They control if she has kids? Wtf
Bodily autonomy is, unfortunately, one of the big parts of conservatorship since it’s usually for the elderly or infirm. What makes Britney’s case even worse is that she’s close to 40. Her trying to have another child, as she’s said she wants to, is going to be a lot harder & more risky. They basically stole last of her fertility years.
That is so fucked up. I feel so bad for her. Her father is vile.
I heard this too, wasn’t her sister supposed to take over?
Her sister is currently in charge of the trust Britney set up in 2006 for her 2 boys. She was named in 2019 and immediately after, 600 million dollars mysteriously disappeared from the trust and then 600 million was randomly injected into the “charity” called Stonehenge owned by Lou M Taylor, a woman instrumental in the setup of the conservatorships of Britney’s person and estate (and that of Amanda Bynes, too. She tried unsuccessfully with Lindsay Lohan and Coutney Love. This is Lou’s M.O.) Lou M Taylor is currently Jamie Lynn’s business manager and “good friend”. Jamie Lynn is corrupt. This conservatorship business is deeper than what the general public knows, There are so many court documents and expense reports publicly available for whoever has the time to read through them.
Separately, her brother is also corrupt and should not be named to replace the father. Brian Spears appeared on the Not as Seen on TV Podcast and basically told on himself. He said he “knows Britney wants out of the conservatorship and always has”, is openly resentful of the fact that she has a strong will and opinion about her freedom, openly admits he considers her conservatorship a “family business” and “good for the family”, laughed when the host asked of her ever felt his sister was held against her will and then replied “everyday” when he was done laughing, somehow remembers and can relay in detail the sales and profits for every record and perfume but acts clueless and brand new when asked if he knows about the #freebritney movement and says he doesn’t know what “captivity people are referring to”.... moments after admitting he knows she wants out of the conservatorship......
Everyone should watch this podcast episode, it is really illuminating about how comfortable and unbothered Brian, and according to him, the whole family is with Britney’s obvious and expressed suffering:
The whole family is corrupt.
Jesus, it didn’t even occur to me that this is a no-win situation for her.
There's no way she's mentally ill enough for this. It's supposed to be for old people with dementia. I don't care if she fails her evaluation, she should be free. There's no way being in situation wouldn't make anyone a little crazy.
Put her money in a trust with independent trustees if you have to do something.
Yup. This isn't something people are supposed to end up with if they're bipolar or have drug addiction issues or whatever. It's not something for people who are simply likely to make bad decisions sometimes. It's for people who can't manage their own basic, day to day self care. I find it hard to believe that she can memorise a routine and perform a concert but not perform basic self care.
Yup. You should only gain conservatorship of people with mid to advanced stage Alzheimers, or people with severe mental disability (IQ below 50). Even people with mild mental disability are able to make decisions, hold down a job, put money in the bank, buy basic necessities using cash or a debit card, do household chores, and understand basic principles of safety.
I don't think we'll ever know the full truth until Britney is free and she decides to write a book about it or something.
This is 100% happening
A few days before the hearing, she had a Q&A on her IG and she said the “first main question you all have been asking me is, ‘what’s my favorite business trip that I ever took?’” Literally, no one was asking about that, even in the comments people were like, “no one is asking you that…we all want to know if you are ok?” Once you realize how she speaks, like the hearing, and you see the long posts like the fairy tale post where she says “pretending that I’m ok has actually helped”….that’s not her writing that stuff.
Her Instagram is run by a woman named cassie. She also runs the backstreet boys account and doesn't make them look crazy, Britney's instant is purposely run like that to make her look unhinged. If you go back 2-3 years her account seemed like it was run by britney herself and then it changed after the last Vegas show was cancelled....
Most people I see defending this situation *literally* use her IG as “proof” as to why she’s incompetent.
I have no idea why ones social media, that's clearly run by someone else, would be used as a measure of their sanity..... it's so obvious she doesn't run it and is forced to do those pictures and dumb videos. She looks so uncomfortable in them!
Response, "so you are saying this instigram shows the person in charge of it is incompetent?"
"So we agree Brittany's father is incompetent and shouldn't control her life and direct what is written in her Instagram account?"
And like...just spend two minutes on facebook and you will see grown adults acting totally unhinged and childish. I bet none of them have conservatorships though!
It is pretty much assumed that she has no control of her social media. Someone else writes all the captions and stuff. There has been at least one person on social media who claimed they used to run her instagram and would be given pictures and be told what to write for the posts. But they didn't outright say it was for Britney because of an NDA. But everything pointed towards her
They had her on lithium and all sorts of shit. All it takes is playing with doses a few times and recording it for IG... She looks drugged out of her mind often.
This is obviously scuttlebutt but I've been hearing this ever since [the yellow shirt thing](https://goat.com.au/entertainment/fans-reckon-britney-spears-yellow-top-is-actually-a-cry-for-help/). Even if she is in need of the conservatorship, which I highly doubt, her testimony should give anyone serious concern over how she and her affairs are being managed.
The comment asking her to wear a yellow shirt if she was in trouble, was posted after the yellow shirt video came out.
That’s not to say she isn’t in trouble, she clearly is. And her Instagram is clearly tightly controlled. She doesn’t post about the biggest thing happening in her life right now. But the yellow shirt thing is trash.
You can prove your insanity but it's impossible to prove your sanity.
No. If a doctor examines her and is of the opinion that she is competent to handle her person and property then the judge can terminate the conservatorship.
Who appoints the doctor? A doctor got her locked into this bullshit conservatorship to begin with. Like they can't be bought off. No one involved in this has an interest in Britney going free. Even her so called lawyer keeps getting paid as long she is in this situation. She is fucked.
Iirc she asked that her dad be replaced, so the conservatorship would still exist, but under new management.
This would be for the dissolving of the conservatorship itself.
This confused me too.
If I'm reading [this NPR article](https://www.npr.org/2021/06/30/1012027100/judge-denies-britney-spears-request-father-removed-conservator) correctly, her original petition only applied to financial aspects of the conservatorship.
>A Los Angeles Superior Court judge signed an order Wednesday denying Britney Spears' request to have her father, Jamie Spears, removed from the financial aspects of her conservatorship.
Later on in the article:
>The next hearing in the case is currently scheduled for July 14. It is possible that Spears will submit a petition for the conservatorship to be terminated. In her comments to Judge Penny last week, Spears said that she had been unaware that she could take such an action. "I didn't know I could petition the conservatorship to end it," she said. "I'm sorry for my ignorance, but I honestly didn't know that."
They’re from two different petitions. The first one, about the finances, was made in late 2020 but was only signed off on today. It basically means that a trust company called Bessemer Banking will become co-conservator of Britney’s estate alongside her father. I don’t get why the judge signed it now though, especially since it’s clear that Britney wishes to end the conservatorship.
The second part is Britney’s request from her testimony: to end the conservatorship altogether. These are two different petitions.
Better to start 2 requests now if the one you really want fails.
She didn’t know because her legal representation is also chosen by the conservatorship. She aren’t informing her of her rights
This is a modern day Brian Wilson Eugene Landy. For those that don’t know, Brian Wilson was and is the brains behind The Beach Boys. He suffered from schizophrenia and drug addiction so the family hired Dr Landy for a conservatorship in the 1980’s. What went from an extreme weight loss and drug rehab regimen, became Landy taking control of everything from what he could eat, to the music he wrote, to even making the Schizophrenia worse by forcing cocktails of medication down his throat. It was so bad that the maid had to hide some of the drugs but couldn’t go to the police because she was illegal. Great movie about that called Love and Mercy.
Doesn't the film take some artistic liberties? Not sure but I tend to be highly mistrustful of Biopics. Absolute tragedy regardless, though - interesting to see the connection here
Shes in contracts. One that if she decided to stop performing. Could be grounds for lawsuits. So what's to stop her from refusing to work? If she stops working what can they actually do at that point? They can't drag into the studios.
I feel at this point if so many people are making bank off of my performances and I can't end this conservatorship I would let the entire estate burn to the ground.
I mean last time she tried to refuse something minor they apparently put her on lithium and had her committed sooooo
also keep her from seeing her kids.
her kids have a restraining order against their psycho grandpa btw, Britney's conservator.
This is a bit of what is happening now. She is currently refusing to work.
For everyone who doesn't know how to read articles or hasn't actually researched anything about this case, this decision does not mean that her conservatorship can't end.
This was an informal proceeding. There was no trial. This was a courtesy granted by the judge so that Britney could speak on the record on her own behalf. There was no way this judge was going to end the conservatorship without an actual trial/investigation.
She instructed her attorney to file a formal petition to end the conservatorship.
Edit: Wow. Woke up to seeing this blow up. Thanks everyone for the awards!
Wanted to add a couple of things for clarification. Changed "He" to "She" in the last paragraph when referring to the judge. Her name is Brenda Penny, and she is an LA County Superior Court Judge. She has been presiding over this case since last November when Britney's attorney, Samuel D. Ingham III, filed a petition to have Britney's father removed from her conservatorship.
So again, up until this point, ending the conservatorship altogether wasn't even on the table. Britney's next court date is July 14, and I would expect a petition to end the conservatorship to be filed then. This would likely be the start of a lengthy process however, as there will be investigations and testimonies made covering the last 13 years.
What are the judge's options if there is suspicion that her lawyer is not acting in her best interest? There were a few articles that pointed out some of the things she said (eg she didn't know she could petition to end the conservatorship) might indicate that he isn't.
That's what I am curious about. I watched legaleagle and he mentioned that the lawyer made half a million from just Britney's case (he been working with her since 2008 apparently) so he probably wants to keep stringing her as long as possible since it's unlikely he will get another client as profitable as her. He should have know working this long with her what she really wanted yet he never mentioned it. It's quite sad really
He’s actually been making 10K a week since 2008. It honestly seems like everyone needs to be investigated. If she was poor they wouldn’t give two shits about keeping her in a conservatorship.
This, everyone is making money off her. She has to pay for her father's lawyers that are fighting against her in court due to the conservatorship.
During the early days she actually went out and found her own lawyer. She brought them into the proceedings and the judge removed them and told her she didn't have a right to her own legal representation. Then her father put the lawyer he hired back in.
There needs to be a massive overhaul of conservatorship laws. If a fucking woman goes out and find her own lawyer, she should have them as her representation no matter what. If that lawyer can pull some magic and get her out of the conservatorship, then guess what there's not enough evidence to have one anyway. A lawyer can't magically get their way out of a legitimate conservatorship by just saying some magic words.
There's no excuse for anyone to *ever*, under any circumstances at all, to lose their right to council. The supreme court needs to come in and fix this shit. I'm not sure if Britney has ever submitted a writ of centaur Ferrari to the SC, but she should.
The only way the Supreme Court can fix this is if Brittney's case gets there, or someone else in a conservativeship sues for precisely this thing.
It would be easier to just straight up make this a federal law, which means going to your Reps and Congressmen and telling them that you want this right written into stone.
People in *jail* have a right to representation. People in insane asylums have a right. *Children* have a right to representation, especially if the people they are suing are their own parents. But not conservatorships?
> The only way the Supreme Court can fix this is if Brittney's case gets there, or someone else in a conservativeship sues for precisely this thing.
All she has to do is submit a [writ of certiorari](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certiorari#United_States), and the supreme court can then decide whether or not they want to hear it. Normally they would expect it to work its way up the courts before accepting a writ, but given she doesn't have a fully normal right to representation, the SC would be much more willing to just take it immediately.
>It would be easier to just straight up make this a federal law, which means going to your Reps and Congressmen and telling them that you want this right written into stone.
I'd say that's a rather complex route with a lot of potential holes in it, but yeah it's still worth trying.
>People in jail have a right to representation. People in insane asylums have a right. Children have a right to representation, especially if the people they are suing are their own parents. But not conservatorships?
They technically have the right, but the way it's implemented means it's really not legitimate in my opinion. She will still have representation, but I would argue if you don't have control over who it is, you don't really have that right.
The worst part of it all is that the reason her chosen lawyer was rejected was probably along the lines of "you need a conservatorship so you by definition can't enter into a contract to hire your own attorney and your conservator has to do it for you."
It's like if a felon wasn't allowed to go to the courtroom and they denied you entry to your own trial because "you committed this crime so you can't enter the court to go to the trial to see if you committed the crime."
> The worst part of it all is that the reason her chosen lawyer was rejected was probably along the lines of "you need a conservatorship so you by definition can't enter into a contract to hire your own attorney and your conservator has to do it for you."
It pretty much was. She was under the temporary conservatorship at the time, and had obviously already significantly recovered from the breakdown, but they denied her.
There shouldn't have even been a temporary one. It should have instead been power of attorney and a temporary mental health hold. There was never a reason for the conservatorship. The conservatorship was only granted because of the almost assuredly bullshit "early onset dementia", which conveniently suddenly stopped progressing immediately.
>It's like if a felon wasn't allowed to go to the courtroom and they denied you entry to your own trial because "you committed this crime so you can't enter the court to go to the trial to see if you committed the crime."
Not exactly like that, as she had been placed under the temporary one. I'd say it's more like someone being falsely convicted of something, and then them being denied a lawyer to appeal or for any further crimes.
> centaur Ferrari
I know this is a typo for certiorari, but it’s such a cute typo! Please don’t fix it!
I'm going to use this intentionally. Will it confuse whoever I'm talking to? Sure, but I like it.
Certoriari? Tho I am interested by the design of a sports car for a half-horse person
Yes certoriari, I can just never remember how to write it.
Hers is not a normal conservatorship. Normal conservatorship for poor people usually involves an individual who is severely disabled with 0 chance of overcoming said disability and can’t make rational decisions. Brittney may of had some sort of psychosis event but it never was as extreme as the normal circumstances where they grant these sort of conservatorships
Show me a woman who would ***not*** attack a man with an umbrella when he keeps following her over and over and over taking pictures of her on the street so he can talk shit about her during her divorce and custody arguments, and I'll show you a woman who *isn't* sane.
I really hope something comes of this, and she not only gets her freedom, but hopefully gets compensated for the years of her life and her fortune just pissed away by her dad and all of the bad actors in the legal system that have worked to keep her in this situation.
She didn't even attack him, she hit his car. Not saying that's not a scary and awful thing to be on the receiving end of, but if I snapped like that, I could imagine thinking "I want to fucking kill him" then my gut morality redirecting me to the car instead of him. To me, it suggests a level of control and reason.
I would like to see how many men were put under conservatorship for violent behaviour.
Shit, Chris Brown damn near killed Rihanna and faced virtually 0 consequences
Or irrational behavior. Remember Charlie Sheen's "winning duh" and tiger's blood moments? There was also that escort that claimed he became violent & she had to lock herself in the bathroom.
I didn't see him being put under a conservatorship. Shia LaBeouf had a streak of violent & bizarre behavior too. No conservatorship in that scenario either.
Exactly. She had a whole ton of things going on at that time as well. Her aunt who she was close to died, she had 2 babies back to back, she was being harassed by paparazzi, her bodyguards were taking bribes, etc. I would be more surprised if she didn't have a breakdown!
There really needs be a criminal investigation on the people involved in this.
Preach, I'm not a Brittney spears fan by any means but her current situation is bs.
She wasn't even attacking him. Just his car, mostly.
Conservatorship gets abused like crazy in the US for a variety of reasons to the point that I think the system should be completely redone. I've seen individuals who should have been able to be autonomous lose the right purely because they aren't neurotypical but are still functional and have desires that get neglected.
I'm pretty sure john Oliver did a piece on how shitty it can be in the US.
Ya, that would be half a million a year, not since 2008.
Plus I think Legaleagle also mentioned an additional percentage of all her earnings.
Yeah that's a ton of money. He is either incompetent lawyer or he is greedy and using her like everyone else. Isn't he the lawyer that made the excuse that he didn't file it or tell her about ending the conservatorship because she didn't ask about it? Which is ridiculous because its his job to tell her all of her rights. If he doesn't tell her then how the hell is she supposed to know what she can legally do to help herself out? What else does she not know that she can do because he didn't bother to tell her?
Every lawyer I hear talk about this mention that this is something that you'll see in the bar exam and that every lawyer should know enough to tell their clients what they need to know. He has no excuse and should be dis-barred or removed as her lawyer and get someone more competent. Come on he has been with her since 2008. He should have at least mentioned the options to her. Of course if he does tell her and she wins then no more easy money for him
Don't forget that's 10k a week base pay and doesn't include legal fees and additional charges for actually doing the job.
It's disgusting how the system can be manipulated by unscrupulous people.
I think one thing brought up in the article is interesting, because it talks a lot about how she's prevented from having relationships, but the father says " James Spears emphasized in a pair of documents filed late Tuesday night that he has had no power over his daughter's personal affairs for nearly two years."
So is one lying? Is this crafty interpretation of business interests?
Nearly two years, is the thing that sticks out for me. Was he controlling them up until 2 years ago? Maybe it's still in the legal paperwork that he has a say in it?
I think two years ago was when all this came to light and people started feeling that maybe she wasn't just a crazy person. Maybe some changes happened at that time?
The conservatorship has two parts, one for her financial affairs and one for her personal affairs (think things like doctor's appointments). Her dad lost control of the latter two years ago.
Then who isn’t letting her take out her IUD?
Jodi Montgomery is in charge of her personal conservatorship, so that would imply it's her, though I presume this has been a thing for longer than that. She's now claiming she's actually been fighting to end Britney's conservatorship, but I'd need some answers to a bunch of questions before I'd consider believing that. It certainly appears to be the case that more than just Britney's dad is in on this, and lawyers and specialists are being paid off with Britney's money.
>Her dad lost control of the latter two years ago.
Unfortunately it's not black and white. The reality is that having control over someones financial affairs, gives your great leverage over their personal affairs.
Financial conservatorship means that Britney cannot access her money without her dad's permission. This means that if she wants money for whatever reason, she has to go to her dad. This gives him great power to reward her or punish her for her personal affairs.
That's what it sounded like to me, well never truly know unless it's released bit I hope not every detail about this is scrutinized for public consumption. In my heart, I feel like this will be resolved for her. At least I hope so.
Yes, he was. He stopped being conservator of her person in early 2019 when he had all those health problems.
Apparently she is not allowed to be alone with her boyfriend in his car, not have her IUD removed so she can have a child with him. This is beyond fatherly concern.
In the meantime she has been forced to work to death.
Disgraceful. Ok, she had a public breakdown years ago and needed someone to oversee things at the time.
She now needs to live her own life and get this toxic father out of it. Engage her own lawyer, her own support team, her OWN financial manager. Where has all her money gone?
Apparently she is permitted an allowance of $2000 per month, while she has to pay her father $16000 per month.
It's very creepy. If she is so mentally ill, why is she being pushed to perform night after night in Vegas.
Am also wondering how it was set up in the beginning. Most of her money seems to be gone (rumours her dad stashed it offshore) considering how big a star she is. Just get her away from this man.
>Ok, she had a public breakdown years ago and needed someone to oversee things at the time.
This isn't even really the purpose of conservatorship.
If I have a mental breakdown, try to kill myself, get hospitalized, and put on medication...
... It's still extremely unlikely my mom would be granted conservatorship. It's possible, but they're not exactly thrown around like crazy. If you can speak for yourself and walk on two legs, no judge is going to take away your autonomy just because you might spend all your money impulsively or something. The fact her dad was able to achieve this is solely because he's filthy rich and well connected.
If you're schizophrenic or some other form of severe mental illness that is extremely incapacitating, it's a little different. But shaving your head isn't really the same thing as schizophrenia lmao.
They're designed for people who are like, vegetated or demented so that families can manage a person's affairs on their behalf.
My brother has schizophrenia and it took 8 years and a dozen court appearances to get him committed by the state (for his own safety). Even that was a lot easier than trying to get a conservatorship, and the only reason it was granted was because he nearly died so many times.
And the reason they are difficult to remove is people in those sort of situations are easy to manipulate, trick, change their minds contrary to their best interests etc. If they were easy to remove they would be basically useless.
They're so difficult to remove because the people in them have virtually no rights. Let's remember that Britney went out and found her own lawyers, and the court removed them from the court and told her she didn't have a right to representation anymore. She was then forced to use her dads lawyer, which is a mega conflict of interest...
The supreme court needs to come in and fuck shit up. They need to establish that the right to picking your own representation can *never* be removed. No argument for it works. "it's to protect the defendant" - no it's not, if the defendant can prevent themselves being put in a conservatorship by just hiring the right lawyer, then guess what, there's not enough evidence to put them in one anyway. The best lawyer in the world cannot prevent the court from seeing the truth in a real conservatorship case.
The thing is that people who are competent have the right to do stupid shit.
If brittney wanted to pick a shitty attorney, its her right just like it would be my right.
If brittney wants to have a poorly considered child it is her right to do so as it is the right of every competent woman. People stay off birth control and get pregnant when it's a bad idea all the time and for a variety of awful reasons (it'll make someone change. It'll make the relationship better, etc, etc). There is nearly no way to legally force birth control or sterilization on someone.
If brittney wants to get in a relationship with a guy who sucks she should be free to do that just like anyone else.
A friend of the family has a daughter with fairly severe Down's syndrome. She's turning 18 soon, and he has been working to set up a conservatorship because she's not capable of handling most of her affairs. It is an extensive, complicated and expensive process - this is not a thing which is done easily. Unless, it seems, you have a ton of money to throw at the system.
Are these conservatorships not time limited/ frequently reviewed? I feel like the conservator should have to convince a judge at least on a yearly basis that it is still necessary. And if he can't proof his point beyond reasonable doubt it gets annulled immediately.
> Apparently she is permitted an allowance of $2000 per month
WEEK. $2000 per week. Not that it matters. It is her money and she should be able to use it like she wants.
Even so- she is involuntarily paying her father twice that.
It's insane that a pop star worth $60MM is spoonfed $104k/year. Yes, that sounds like a lot of money to many "normal" people, but it's absolutely nothing compared to just the passive income of her estate, let alone what she earns from performing and royalties.
I'm sure she's worth more than $60M, given the span of her career. Unfortunately, her father has clearly swindled most of it.
The more I learn about this story the more I’m shocked this could happen. I hope she is able to get away from this soon. Whatever mental health issues she had were almost certainly made worse because of this treatment. I find it hard to believe she is still incapable of managing her life though. I’m sure she could do a better job than her dad at this point
To put a little context here.
I think that was $2000 a week. And that was a cash stipend. Not, "All she was getting"
And the $16k was salary for conservatorship.
Still fucked up.....
Estate attorney here - her opening move was a very clever tactical publicity move, essentially drumming public support before the matter is properly filed for review.
Conservatorships are complicated proceedings that require considerable review of the conservator, the conservatee, the estate under governorship, and about a million other things - which for regular people take YEARS.
It isn’t as clear cut as Reddit might want, but the law is nuanced. She’ll have her say in court though.
This needs to be higher up. I hope this doesn’t get lost in this thread.
Quite the opposite. Glad it was the first thing I saw.
Its almost as if the media wrote an article with a misleading clickbait headline in order to get people to view the article or just generate false outrage! I'm shocked I tell you, shocked.. well, not that shocked.
Probably to catch the thousands of idiots that will ask why no one covered that?
Well, it’s the top comment now, so thanks for hoping.
Just out of curiosity, how much of a trial or investigation is needed to let a 40 year old human who has not committed a crime control their own life? I think just generally showing up and saying, “hey, I’m good now,” should be enough.
Yeah, her initial request was also to be released from conservatorship without examination, something that just wouldn’t happen.
I think just LOOKING at what Britney does in the media should be enough evidence of fuckery afoot. I've weighed in on conservatorships before and someone who is doing everything she is doing is just being taken advantage of on some level. Obviously I don't know the subtle details going on here, but from the surface someone, somewhere is likely over-reaching IMO.
The BIG warning sign for me is the fact they allow her to date and have sex with someone, but won't let her marry him or control her birth control. If you feel she is competent enough to CONSENT to sex willingly, but not competent enough to consent to marry him?? The only reason I see here is the new husband would automatically get a heaviest chunk of power in the conservatorship, which would cut off what is likely hundreds of thousands of dollars to lawyers and professionals.
I think the first line in your comment is something more people should remind themselves of. This whole situation is absurd. It's like looking at someone actively beating their child and going: "well I don't know about arresting them. We should probably investigate first."
Whole situation is fucked up. You’d think if her dad really cared about her he’d voluntarily give it up and let her live her life without the need for a trial.
No one's ever thought Brittney's dad ever really cared about her
He makes too much money off of her for that to happen
There's no amount of money I could get paid from my daughter, or anywhere, to just ruin her life for my own benefit. What the fuck is wrong with these people?
I think you might understand or at least have a clearer picture if you do a brief tour of r/raisedbynarcissists . Not everyone has parents who actually care about them.
imagine being a grown ass woman that earned millions of dollars and someone else that you don't even have a good relationship with gets to decide over your money because you had a mental breakdown like 15 years ago
also 15 years ago *she was a grown ass woman*...
this shit is unreal. They're acting like she has dementia
Dude, not just money. She has to have an IUD against her will.
It's the classic Catch-22: You aren't proven sane enough to manage your own affairs, but that leaves you stuck in a situation that is literally making you crazy.
Not just her money her entire life she is a literal slave. She isn't allowed to have her birth control thing removed and have children.
To be honest, I’m a little surprised if she’s never tried to kill him or herself. Or at the very least find some way to flee the country. I’m sure having children you love and need to take care of changes things, but I feel like a lot of people trapped in that situation would snap, and I wouldn’t really blame them.
I can’t believe her money is paying for her own abuse and imprisonment. Her lawyer was clearly not working for her, but her father!
Too many people are stealing her money. I hope justice is served. But I also hope there is someone genuine who can help support her and make sensible decisions. I think she needs a little help but she should be in control of her life and the money she worked for and earned
What really gets me is that she is willing to have a financial conservatorship. She asked for a professional such as a bank. She is being more than reasonable. A bank can be held legally responsible for squandering your money and can be sued. A bank cannot charge outrageous sums for helping with your finances. A bank would certainly let you pick out new kitchen cabinets. This situation is beyond crazy. Wealthy woman shaves her head, like many women who are not wealthy, and literally is put in a gilded cage for 13 years.
There had to be some fuckery afoot for her to even be in a conservatorship in the first place. They’re generally reserved as a last-ditch effort for a severely mentally ill person or disabled person completely unable to make decisions for themselves, not someone going through a mental breakdown.
Money. It is usually used for people who have like dementia and shit too. From her statement and everything she has been trying to do to get away it is clear that she can and does have the resources to make decisions. Seeing as her networth literally went down and he controls all of her finances. The fact that she said they purposely put her on a fucking anti-depressant while she has a mood disorder. He wants her to be manic. And did that to punish her. It's disgusting
Can anyone with legit legal knowledge here ELI5?
Brittany asks the court to do an administrative thing because she claims a super bad crime occurred.
Dad’s attorneys said hold it a minute on answering small administrative thing because Brittany just said she’s the victim of super bad things that are way more important.
This doesn’t mean Dad wins anything. The judge is still going to determine the small thing. It’s just that there’s an emergency that needs immediate attention first.
That username tho
Sure. ELI10 though
Britney has been under an agreement to have someone else make personal, professional and financial decisions for her for a long time. Because of that agreement if she wants to change that agreement either the people overseeing those agreements need to agree to relinquish their responsibilities in conjunction with a request from Britney, or Britney needs to file a request and have a judge determine if it should be granted.
Her particular situation involves three different parties, each of whom deals with one or more aspects of decisions. Her dad, and a bank, control her financials and professional decisions. Another person controls the personal decisions. This person was put in that role by the courts 2 years ago and is a professional decision maker (supposedly, I don’t know anything about them).
All three are supposed to have Britney’s best interests when making decisions. She has said they do not and that they are in fact abusive. The judge in question needs to talk to everyone, as well as outside professionals, to determine whether to end the agreement. Right now, the judge has said that the agreement continues as is for the immediate future in regards to a request to **immediately** remove Britney’s dad from the agreement.
That’s the summary based on this article. I know nothing more about this case.
ELI5 attempt: Britney wanted her dad to go away, RIGHT NOW. The judge-lady said “Maybe, but NOT RIGHT NOW”
From what I know and have gone through (my kid needs this) it is a high bar AND it doesn't have to be all or none. My son cannot read,write, speak, feed himself, shop, bathe and dress independently and so on. If he was as functional as she was, even if I wanted it, I doubt it would be granted. (I dont want it and am trying to keep it as least restrictive as possible.) It is hard enough to get someone committed. This is harder. This is absolutely outrageous.
I never expected to have this much in common with the "Leave Britney alone" guy.
The devil always takes a little more than he gives.
This is fucking ridiculous fuck that crotchety old man. Free Britney.
Did the judge say why? Does anyone know why a 39 YO woman has been under a conservatorship for 13 years?
Admittedly, I know absolutely nothing about conservatorships or Britney's specific circumstances, but it seem like if you're going to put someone in control of another adult's life, you'd provide some guidance like "until such time as you no longer do X, Y, or Z and you are able to do A, B, and C". I mean, even prisoners know when their sentences are up & when they're up for parole.
Iirc it started when she had her breakdown. I also think she went into this with no lawyers and refusing to get re-evaluated.
The lawyers bit it's because I don't know if she is allowed to hire her own lawyer and the refusing to be evaluated bit is lost on me unless it's done kind of public record thing.
Supposedly she isn't even allowed to hire her own lawyer. Her lawyers are appointed by her conservatorship, who are making money off of her and have interest in her not leaving her conservatorship.
This is a California case. But where I live a ward has the right to challenge a guardianship (conservatorship in California) annually and the court will appoint an attorney to help him or her. The standard is whether a person can manage his or her person and property. The only way to get a guardianship terminated is for a doctor to examine the ward and prepare a statement of expert evaluation saying the ward is not incompetent and does not need a guardian. (The guardian must file a report annually that includes an evaluation of the ward by a doctor that reports that the guardianship should be continued.)
How is this legal? This a clear conflict of interest!
Just about anything is legal if you can afford it.
If she's really mentally deficient, she needs more help than this.
But she seems lucid and of average intelligence, so this is just old people who disapprove of how she wants to live.
This is misleading. The motion was denied in February. The judge, reasonably so, wanted to keep Jamie on for 6 months to ensure a smooth transition. The hearing to determine whether to kick him off is on July 14.
It's criminal that the father can make so much money while doing this. If you're doing something out of "kindness" you don't exploit that person's bank account. And that just incentivizes all the people involved in this to keep this arrangement going.
Michael Jackson never had a conservatorship. No way Spears should have a conserver.
Just so everyone is well aware. These civil filings are paying the courts thousands of dollars in fees as well. Also her lawyer was sued by Casey Kasem’s family. The attorney she hired and they denied him, he was a very good attorney. It’s absolutely insane.
Freaking gross dudes, unreal. It was supposed to be short term all along, but once you let the system get a hold of you... yikes, she was really railroaded into this. Then never even informed how to end it?!
She's a working, performing adult, she should be making her own decisions. Regardless of what we don't know, it doesn't really matter, everyone has their own struggles including mental health and anybody working and making their own money should be able to expect a certain level of autonomy PERIOD. If her making her own decisions ruins her own legacy, then thats what happens, but she SHOULD be in control of it/herself and her own destiny.
That she finally voiced that this should end and how frustrating it is, and the judge not only maintains it, but keeps her father as co-conservator is just... wow.
Meanwhile everyone including the system continues to garnish money from her in the guise of fees.. awesome.
Conservatorships are for old people, this is just legally sanctioned abuse.
Everyone: Free Britney!
Legal system: Best I can do is a Cosby...
When you’re ready to talk about it, I think people would benefit from understanding just how awful an ill-placed guardianship really is.
Talking about your own experiences might help the stubborn people who think courts are always right understand that they are not.
I’m very, very sorry you went through this abuse. When you’re ready to talk, I’d be happy to listen.
Glad you got out of it. Sounds horrible and I'm sorry you had to go through that bullshit. . .
I just wanna hug you. Glad to hear you're free and doing better.
Sending much love and support ♥️♥️
Meanwhile Cosby gets to walk, what utter bullshit.
Yeah shit timing. While at least the Cosby decision makes sense legally, (I fully believe he should be in jail for the rest of his life but the prosecutor did fuck up terribly) this just makes no sense to me whatsoever
Good lord. She had a rough patch 13 years ago. This isn't right.
For everyone saying: well the courts have a better understanding of her mental health than we do. Okay...she may or may not have a mental illness. A lot of people in Hollywood do. Where’s Charlie Sheen’s conservatorship, then? Tom Cruise’s? He’s literally a member of a goddamn cult. Where’s Kanye West’s conservator? All of these men have children too. Yet they are freely allowed to make their own financial/independent decisions. Britney may or may not still need a conservatorship, but there isn’t a way to slowly loosen the reigns for her? She needs to be FORCED to have an IUD, yet is still mentally capable enough to work and perform for a Las Vegas show (pretty much against her will.) Idk, but it seems to me that if her mental health is so fragile as her family/the courts claim, she probably shouldn’t be performing in front of large crowds. She should take personal time off to seek whatever treatment she needs. But that’s not what is happening. They can’t have it both ways. Either she’s mentally unwell and needs to be out of the spotlight and take a break for awhile, or she’s competent and can perform, under extreme pressure, in front of a huge crowd, and is capable of making her own decisions.
Guess there's just no getting out of a conservatorship, even if you're famous and being abused by your conservators.
They still get to keep the money. Wtf is that
The thought is once you go into conservatorship it is almost impossible to get out, and I mean like basically impossible
Obviously. She literally laid out how she was being abused in open court and it was televised, and still nothing...
This isn't right. That isn't justice.
I was recently in a mental health facility, and basically once you're in, you have no rights. You might as well be in some black site. The burden of proof to get you into one of these sorts of situations, is next to nothing. The burden of proof to get out is like, god himself could come out of the clouds and it'd be like "sorry you don't have a psychiatry degree :("
Its basically the same crazy shit that was happening in the old mental asylums back in the day. Once you got checked in, you pretty much never got out of them.
Yeah is there any way to say you are not crazy without sounding a bit crazy? "i'M nOt cRaZy!!!1!" Very hard to prove that negative because we're all a bit crazy...
There's still hope. There's another hearing on the 14th. This just means the conservatorship won't be dissolved immediately.
And yet Charlie Sheen, Tom Cruise, and Marjorie Taylor Greene are still running free...
Click bait title. The judge basically said, those are serious allegations, let's investigate, then decide.
I had a dream last night that a group of friends and myself befriended her while on vacation. She was really cool in that dream, so I'm going to assume that's what she's always like and hope for this thing to end.
She should get the ACLU involved like they offered back in August.
It just shows that just because you’re family doesn’t mean you can trust them. Her dad is clearly toxic.
This is absolutely absurd. If he dies will she gain control of her own life. If so I think that’s worth the jail sentence.
if it doesnt seem fishy enough for you, while being in charge of britney's everything,her father is being paid 10k/week(from her money) while giving her 2k/week(of her own money)