There’s always jobs for engineers they said
By - lompocmatt
Job Requiring a college degree: We pay $12 an hour
Me: But that is how much I made when I worked at Target.
Job Requiring a college degree: Did I say $12 I meant $10.
"Well I might as well go back to Target then"
Target: "Sorry, you're overqualified"
Luckily for them some things are more important to me than money.
Target was a soul crushing job.
Damn, mind telling why? I’ve heard *generally* that Target is pretty decent as far as retail but I’ve only ever heard this third hand
Every month or two they would add a new duty. By the end it was just too much.
By the end of my 3 years there, here was a list of everything I did in a typical shift.
Take carts in from the parking lot, check people out at checkout, work the return counter, take defectives to the back room, stock non-defective returns and "items customers decided not to buy" and put them back on the shelf, clean the restroom, clean up spills, deliver pickups to customers cars, load heavy items into customers cars, and if I am working close I have to make sure the store is empty.
I am one person doing a ton of different tasks. I also had to fit a 15 min break into this mess. It was hard labor intensive work, and now that I am getting older I can't really do such a job anymore.
That does sound tough, I’m sorry you had to put up with that. Hope you’ve transitioned to something that works better for you
Not yet, still in the process. Hopefully now that I have a shiny college degree I have more options in life.
Found this recently in pharmacy work. When I did it five years ago I was an assistant dispenser, preparing medications doing prescriptions. Very occasionally would do the shop front if it was super busy. But pretty much in the back just working on prescriptions (which believe me, kept us busy enough).
Now, you're expected to do all the previous tasks. But also they don't hire a separate person for front of house. So now you have to run the shop front, do stocking, serving customers, cleaning the entire store daily. Whilst also processing the same amount of prescriptions. The manager told me "The company just wants everyone to be able to do a bit of everything!" no, they want to hire less employees per store by having everyone be "flexible". It's absurd.
That happens? Omg
Ia the situation really that bad that even careers fields such as engineers, lawyers and medical doctors experience difficulty during the hiring process and/or find employment conditions sub-optimal (e.g. uncompetitive pay, average-mediocre benefits etc.)?
Edit: Serious question, not trying to troll or bait people
The engineering hiring process is just weird as hell. I struggled for a few months, then out of nowhere had two companies wanting to hire me on the same day. It's a matter of spinning the wheel until you either 1. get a company that's looking for trainability, and manage to convince them you're trainable, or 2. get a company whose very specific requirements happen to be exactly an area you're familiar with. (Type 1 is likely to be nicer to work for.) Once you're hired the pay and benefits are generally good. I'm sure it varies by field though; some are oversaturated and some there's a shortage.
My engineer husband is about ready to switch careers. The market is so weird. The are 300 positions at a nearby company but he applies his application to the void.
Any advise or should he just go into data science?
I wonder how many actual positions there are at nearby companies.
What type of engineer is he? And what industry? I’m a *bit of an* engineer myself so might be able to help
He is mechanical but has worked in aerospace, specifically composites, 3d design (autocad and ansys), and a bit of project management.
Recently he has worked in accounting and dabbled in data modeling and visualization using R (and others).
Thank you for responding even if you cant help. The hiring process is maddening.
Wow, sounds like a great set of skills. Sorry he’s having trouble. I’m a chemical eng in composites funny enough, and the hiring process is grueling especially nowadays. I had to send out over 3000 applications for my last job. Message me and I’ll see if I can help with any companies I know of in the industry. I may have contacts but no guarantees since hiring is still kinda slow
Honestly sounds like that company's hiring process might just be busted and resumes aren't finding their way to the right people. In that case the secret sauce is probably a referral/get a current engineer to shove the resume in the hiring manager's face. Ofc that's easier said than done and no one wants to cold approach a stranger. But esp if the company offers referral bonuses, their engineers are incentivized to find and talk to people like your husband. I've seen a lot of these sort of connections made in alumni facebook groups, etc.
Dude, I totally believe you. A few weeks after landing in South Korea, I needed to use a scanner so I went to a local internet cafe. The dude working the counter was really helpful and after a brief chat he told me he was a computer science grad too. 4 years of college all to end up in a PC cafe serving snacks, working the POS machine and occasionally rebooting the PCs....
There were straight up zero jobs for most of 2020. The economy was on pause.
Suddenly they want workers again and as soon as they can't fill one position it's all over the news as a disaster.
I applied, interviewed, got hired, moved, and started my engineering job all within the span of the pandemic. If you're struggling to find a job after graduating with an engineering degree, you either didn't try in school or aren't sending enough applications.
Cause every person's situations is EXACTLY like yours.
While that would normally be a fair assumption, that's not the case here. In the spirit of breaking the salary hiding stigma, I make about $76k per year with full benefits. That's pretty damn competitive for an entry-level software engineering position.
You made over 100k in an entry-level position and you still expect more? That sounds like a personal problem.
Yes, you're clearly a very gifted student that was well compensated by a company that recognized that talent. However, 100k for the top student is a more than fair compensation rate. Complaining about your pay at this point is frankly pathetic.
It has been that way for IT for at least 25 years.
Engineers I would say yes. Doctors and lawyers though I can’t speak for
Lawyers yes, you only wanted/needed if you have the best grades, and only 1-2% of the graduates get them. If you have average grades you will struggle and they pay is bad, but you can get lucky. If your grades are bad, you start in McDonald's (not the lawyer jobs tho) or open your own office and pray
Doctors only if you want to work in popular hospitals. But normally you're good. But I guess it's different in other countries. Speaking of europe
Had to send of 3000+ applications to land an engineering job so yeah it’s ugly
I got a degree in chemical engineering in 2016 and I never got a job. I went back into construction. My classmates include people who now work as a bartender, the help desk at Home Depot, and the front desk of a hotel. The degree is worthless
I worked as a leader in a glass factory for 5 months until I found the job I start on Monday.
Sadly over saturated careers exist in so many fields, I feel your pain
Me thinking I picked a super obscure job that no one would do but now I can’t find a job in it 4 years after graduating 🤡
Oh man welcome to all the people who became pharmacists and lawyers 10-15 years ago because they were the “hot” degrees (along with STEM.)
Same thing at my uni and area. Too few graduates, very high demand. During the massive hiring freezes of 2020, computer scientists / software engineers or various kinds of developers were still getting hired.
can confirm. linkedin was still hot and heavy through covid for soft. engs like me
Salary inflation for CS throughout the pandemic has been insane. Not sure it's entirely sustainable but hey, I can ride this new job for a few years at least.
I think its sustainable. Lots of new startups, lots of new software to right, not enough supply! :)
Is this the Marines? Or do they actively discourage you from graduating?
I understand more or less letting few people in, even if I think elitism is counterproductive. But this sounds like people who got in are not supported enough...
Do you know why?
I only have experience with universities where it's really hard to fail unless you just quit yourself. So would the reasons be financial?..
A ton of people end up employed while pursuing their degree... And then just kind of work more and more until they don't see a need to graduate.
It’s like Boomers expect you to be able to see the future or some shit.
I was in college during the mid-80s and I saw the rug get yanked on Chemical Engineering students. It was supposedly a hot high-paying field, but during a fall semester, it collapsed. Students due to graduate the next semester had offer letters in hand, then they received flush letters revoking the offers.
A similar thing happened in the IT field during the early 90s when the flood of H1-B visas hit.
A lot of countries have protections for startups and ways to encourage them yes
nah we just gotta stop allowing companies to hire foreigners to do American jobs at slave wages
Companies shouldn't be allowed to pay slave wages. It doesn't matter what country they are from.
They honestly have to. Otherwise they’d have to admit to their role in fucking everything up. It can be the system they made or the politics they supported, so it has to be some individual failing within each atomized member of the generation. This person got the wrong degree, this person didn’t budget right, etc etc.
If the problems are systemic than the ideologies they’ve cling to and fought for over a lifetime must also be wrong, and that *just can’t be possible*.
IMO, things started going to hell during the Reagan administration concerning the cost of education.
I remember the cuts in student aid.
No, things went to hell when the democrats "fixed" the problem of the high cost of education -- by making student loans much larger and easier to receive. Naturally, the schools upped the cost to max out that loan money, while degrading the education, and here we are.
I earned a BA in the early 90s, and a BS in the early 2000s, and the difference in affordability was a complete joke ($4k in debt vs $40k in debt).
I got a stem degree last year and have applied for over 100 jobs between now and then. So far 1 company got back to me to say they wanted an interview and then they never showed up.
I’m thinking of doing a masters to get through another year but honestly I think I’ll just come out the other end and still have no career path because YoU nEeD 3 yEaRs ExPeRiEnCe FoR tHiS gRaDuAtE PoSiTiOn.
Don't do a Masters if you don't have experience. You'll still get told not enough experience while saddled with more debt. I almost went your route and saw the writing on the wall one month into my Masters. I withdrew immediately.
Then what the fuck do you do?
How do I get into my field, assuming that I already have a relevant masters degree, if I don't have professional experience, employers don't care about my degree, and my dad isn't the CEO?
You keep applying, or you fall into an industry you didn’t expect to be in because you need a paycheck.
See, I always assumed that would be an option. Now if I hear back at all it’s usually saying they are impressed by my resume but i wouldn’t be a good fit for them. Yes I know I’m overqualified for this front desk position. I just desperately need a job with health benefits so I can afford my medication.
I’m kind of exhausted at the moment so excuse my confusion but do you mean I should lie or that what I just said was a lie?
Sry tired myself so I thought I could get away with one word answer lol
You should lie to them :D
Ah, ok. Thanks for clarifying!
As much as it sucks, you just keep applying and see what comes your way. The sad reality is it's just random chance if you have no connections. Getting into more debt won't resolve the situation without building connections. Even building connections doesn't necessarily help you.
It's all random luck. Unless you're in a field where there's absolutely no chance of being considered without post-grad qualifications like Law or Medicine, then a Masters is a complete waste of time.
I would hazard a guess and say offer your services as a slave- I mean unpaid intern and hope that the stars align correctly for you to get a job offer. Or a personal connection somehow? Other than that, I'm out of ideas
All I can advise is to get creative and be personable. Even if it means a little self deprivation humor. The job I have now was more about how I get along with people than my talent. I’m ridiculously under utilized, but I’m happy.
Typically, universities that offer masters also offer students to do internships over the year. A masters might be a good idea
At the risk of sounding like a massive shithead, try calling ahead before you submit your application to let them know in advance. Something like “If you could give my resume a look I’d really appreciate it, I’m trying to break into this industry, etc.” Take whatever you can get, make connections, work your way up with promotions and company hopping.
Experience is worthless too. Companies just need people to exploit. I have almost 20 years experience in my field of engineering and they still offer 22bucks an hour. It’s a joke, management is beholden to directors who are beholden to share holders. We are pawns. It’s the American way
I deliver food and make more than that
Wtf? Okay you must live in a lower cost of living state but that’s crazy. What kind of engineering? Not saying you’re lying but hard to grasp.
Indiana definitely has a low cost of living. Not like Arkansas, but low cost of living.
I’m in Clinical Engineering (medical equipment)
I make more than 22 an hour, but I have been offered this in the recent past.
Even though I live in a higher cost living area you should be compensated much higher. That’s crazy. So do you live pretty good over there? What the hell do they pay jobs with lesser titles over there then that’s so odd to me.
Phlebotomists were the real wage crime victims through the pandemic. Most of them are paid around 15bucks an hour and were drawing blood from covid patients daily. All this while restaurant workers were getting paid more to stay home.
I think we live pretty well here. You can get a 3000 sq ft house for a little over 300k in a nice area. The same house inner city is less than 200k.
Our main problems are backwards rednecks and a tough climate. Very humid summers, wet dreary early winters, frozen tundra late winters.
Eh, a research based masters can get you actual experience that is applicable to industry jobs from my experience.
Do graduate schools not offer experience positions? Internships? Direct research?
Depends on the school and type of education you're going for. All my Masters was offering was some sort of path way program for some project (it's been awhile so I don't remember the details).
I didn't stick around because one subject spent the first month telling me what quantitative and qualitative analysis were. That single subject was going to add $6,500 to my debt and spent the first month teaching me something most people learn at High School. I'm not sticking around for that horse shit.
Where I live you always do Master's right after Bachelors and you often take some masters courses before graduating as a bachelor. You are simultaneously selected to both and it would be trickier to get the right to study for your masters if you did it later. There is a limit to how many years you can study without separate permission. And you basically do nothing with just a bachelor's degree here.
They tricked me with a full scholarship and stipend. Bamboozled! Hoodwinked!
I graduated back in 2011 in electrical engineering not too long after the housing collapse. Couldn't find a job so I decided to a city college to get a cheap Masters degree to stave off the interest on the federal loans. The one thing they really should have nailed on the head is not what you know it's WHO you know.
I couldn't find a job, so I had applied to any civil service job relate so to my field. The civil service exams are pretty easy, basic math and some common sense. I got a graveyard shift position doing circuit breaker cleaning/maintenance for the subways in the tunnels. The pay was okay. $23 an hour back in 2013.
Eventually word got around that I have a Master's degree in electrical engineering when most of my fellow workers at most have a high school degree or not at all. Some had associates or a trade license. So one day my direct supervisor's boss called me into his office to ask about my background in more detail. He passed my information to someone in the engineering division, and told me to apply to open position on the website.
After another month of bureaucratic stuff I finally got into doing actual engineering work. When my supervisor at the engineering division left to go into the private as sector, he gave me a call saying he needed a capable engineer to work for him during the pandemic. So I left and ending up making almost double my civil salary.
TL;DR Knowing the right person or people is what usually gets the job. In fact some positions are only posted for legal reasons for the Equal Employment Opportunity, but they already have a person in mind for that position.
Only do a masters if it pivots into a field with high demand.
Agree. I have a masters that was very difficult, at least for me (applied physics), but literally no one cares because I work in engineering and it’s “not an engineering degree”. Thankfully I have plenty of other good credentials so it works out, but yea no one cares about your masters unless it’s literally the same exact degree and concentration in which you’re working.
Getting an auto filler setup for applications saved me a fuck ton of headache. 1128 applied, 4 interviews, 1 being a waste that was only curious about my degree, 2 offers, 1 HR wouldn't let them offer.
Common questions I copied the text I wrote so I wouldn't have to write stories again.
Which one do you use?
It was through LinkedIn, but doesn't look to be supported anymore.
I believe LiveCareer is what a friend used in his search.
They still make mistakes putting info in the wrong blocks on occasion, so check before submitting.
I’ve had so many jobs go “yes we really want to interview you!!!” and then ghost. It’s so frustrating.
Keep trying friend. It took me 6 months and over 1000 applications to get a job in my field.
You give me hope
Oh I feel this one. My progression went:
* Get degree in field *supposedly* in great need of engineers
* Get rejected everywhere in my country and neighboring countries
* Learn to code because even shitty memes are right twice a day
* Make bank making peoples shitty fart apps
Every time I look back at my life learning stuff I fear I could've cut out all the university part and substituted much less learning. I mean, I grew as a person as a good engineer, but the specialized knowledge I carry around from my field of study is just wasted.
Now that you've graduated everyone can tell you that the secret was to go to career fairs, doing internships, and participating in co-ops while in university but now it's too late.
In my experience, even getting internships was hard af, if you didn't have enough connections you wouldn't land one and a lot of companies required a lot of hours a week and sometimes it was quite hard to accommodate your school hours with the internship hours.
That was pretty much my experience with the co-cop program at my university. Minorities seemed to have a much lower placement rate. Unless your parents lived in the cities with co-op jobs, you risked paying to work because the pay would not offset the costs of moving and short-term rent.
Yep, so many people with suggestions all of a sudden, and every one of their suggestions needs a TARDIS to implement.
Too bad my civil engineering ass doesn’t know the difference between a modem and a router
I graduated with a civil engineering degree a few years ago, a lot of graduates end up being material testers and construction inspectors which dont require a degree at all. They also pay pretty bad. We were definitely lied to.
I graduated with a Civil degree in 2008, right as all hell broke loose. I even did the "structural" concentration. You know how many people were looking to staff up for structural design?
I would up driving a truck for a few years until my now wife convinced me to go back to school part time. I'm now working as a software developer with a BS in Civil Engineering and a BS in Computer Science. It kinda sucks that I have a degree I'll never use, but the info I learned has come in handy.
Was wondering what kind of engineers you were referring to. Lots of folks talking about computer engineers in here but the civil world is way different
From what I’m seeing there is plenty of hiring going on by civil engineering consultants in my area. Did you attend any job fairs during your time in college or work any internships? What has your application experience been like so far?
My brother has his civil degree. Got his PE, now runs his own company doing house designs. His company is growing and is looking for more employees. Hit me up if you are serious and I can get you in contact with him. No promises, but he is doing well and happy. Maybe you can learn from him and start your own gig down the road.
How many years of experience did your brother have before he started his own firm? I have my license and thinking about being my own boss.
5 years. He set himself apart by always picking up his phone and having great customer service. A lot of people in the building industry lack accountability and customer service.
Maybe consider working on the public dollar for a while? Fast growing communities need you.
Not likely to pay well right away, but you will make connections and gain valuable experience.
>“No one wants recent college graduates because they don’t have any professional experience,” he says. “Those who graduate from top universities are safe, but the majority of recent college graduates are not wanted.”
This rang painfully true from my personal experience.
I also like the casual classism with “top universities” lol.
Top uni never did much for me
Yeah. 99% of the time I’d say it’s code for having connections. Most (but not all) of the types of people who can afford a top university are gonna have a job lined up through friends or family regardless of their actual skills
I think it's obvious that we've already become like Earth in *The Expanse*, where there are more mouths to feed than work available to keep them all gainfully employed, so implementing a program like Basic is the only step we haven't yet taken, and is necessary to keep society from totally breaking down.
Hell, even that’s too little too late. MLK was already pushing for UBI back in the 60s. At this point I think we gotta just push straight into direct services. Just give necessities unconditionally
"There's always a job for ^^^^^^^software engineers."
Not saying this in a mean way but it does make me with my useless Japanese degree feel a bit better than even people who did """real subjects""" are finding it difficult to get jobs
When I was in my junior year of undergrad, I realized the degree I was pursuing wasn’t for me, and I considered changing majors. My parents were like, “Just finish your degree and then decide what to do. It’s easier to get a job with a degree, and you don’t want to spend the extra money on college if you don’t have to.” Well, here I am 4 years later, in a low paying job that I don’t like, about to go to back to school and spend more money on college anyway. I should’ve listened to my instincts.
Everyday, I think of committing suicide, I don't see the point of living anymore...
Why does it seem like every 3 - 4 year the economy just takes a nosedive and no one wants to fix it?
In my opinion there are not enough job positions available which require a degree.
I am in biomedical science which is starting to take on the same road like chemical engineering.
Just look at the basic structure of a research lab. One professor, about 1-2 postdocs and 1 doctorate. Then you have 1-2 technical assistants for each doc. TAs do not require a degree.
My advice: Specify in something. Become an expert in a certain method. Has to be state-of-tje art and ideally a gold standard method. And by this I dont mean learn how to operate the machine. How do you become an expert? Internships, research projects at uni etc.
This is honestly why I got a nursing degree. Job security AF.
I see a lot of people in pain here. And I thought I would give some advice. Maybe it will help. I have about 30 years of experience in IT. I'm a senior developer at the moment because I've avoided going into management. I generally have a small team of developers working for me. I write the hard or critical pieces and hand out the rest of the work to the other developers.
I've interviewed about 300 people over the last 3 or 4 years. And I can tell you that while a computer science type degree is helpful, it's not what I look for. Some of the best programmers I've ever met had degrees in statistics or accounting. And one of the worst had a PhD in computer science.
Unfortunately, a CS degree is often the cost of entry because of brain-dead HR departments. My advice is to start learning programming skills as young as you can. I started when I was 13 and had my first professional programming job when I was 19. I didn't get my CS degree until six years later.
My son in law recently graduated with a CS degree from liberty university. He did the entire degree online, most of it from south america. He graduated with zero debt. He has about a year of experience now and is making around $55k. Over the next five to seven years, I expect his salary to go up to $120k. The only help I really gave him was with the occasional programming assignment, plus interview coaching when he got out. They later told him the reason they hired him was because he was able to answer all of the questions in the interview.
My son is in his second year in the same program. I'm paying his way so that he doesn't have any debt. But it's a lot cheaper than a normal university. So the cost isn't oppressive. He could work his way through if he had to. The school is accredited. And once he gets out, no one will care where his degree came from.
So my advice is this. For IT, it doesn't matter what degree you have. What matters is what you actually know. If you want to go into software development, pick a tool chain and start learning it now. Devote an hour or two to learning something new every night. Try to get an IT job now. Then keep going to school while you work. There is a ton of excellent online material for learning any development tool you can think of. You can learn more in a couple hours of youtube videos than what you can learn in a CS class at a university.
One thing that helped me get my first programming job was a program I had written on my own time. This is back when they published source code in computer magazines. I had a magazine accept my program for publication. In the interview, I was able to provide the boss with the acceptance letter and a hard copy of the source code. Today, the equivalent of this would be code you've published online, maybe your own IT blog, or contributions to open source projects. If I were hiring a junior developer with no experience, seeing code they had actually written would definitely improve their chances of getting hired.
Avoid all debt. And I mean all debt... cars, mortgages, credit cards, student loans, all of it. Keep your monthly expenses as low as possible. Live below your means. Drive reliable used cars, even learn how to fix them yourself. The lower your expenses are, the lower salary you can start with. Then build your life up from there without debt.
I hear you. I have almost a decade less of experience but:
- dropped out of college in my native country due to a mix of family tragedy + significant economic shift in the country.
- got hired anyway as trainee engineer
- used some programming experience to automate several task in LISP
- got a job in a better company
- started studying databases
- automated the shit out of everything and became the “go to” person for automation
- got sponsored for a L1 visa (yes without a degree, yes the company did it)
- kept taking all the tasks where automation and domain knowledge where the prerequisite just to see what could have been done
- had to take a long break from work because HR wouldn’t touch anyone without a degree… so I went ahead and got my bachelor and two masters (the second while already working full time again).
- every single application I send out (several hundreds) gets automatically rejected because:
1) employment gap (which is covered as FT education + jobs in college)
2) too much experience for mid level jobs
3) not enough management experience
- every single job offer I got are coming from:
2) recruiters find me.
===== Conclusions ======
When they tell you to “create your own path” is a massive pile of steaming bullshit. I did, and I get automatically rejected for not being a standard borg drone.
Network, network, network, network, network… the people telling you to keep doing what you do for work in your spare time to get better at it are just protecting themselves and not doing you any favor. Go have a beer with colleagues, play tennis or golf or any other sport where you might meet people. You won’t develop many friendships on the job, the few you do, stay in touch, especially when the path separates.
If you have a job, pay it forward. Check for open positions in the company and ping people you know telling them you’d be available for an internal referral if you think it would be a good fit. They will remember about you if the positions turn around.
==== Additionals ======
As you said, save from day 1. If you can live with X, you can live with x -10%. 3,000 a year saved in your early 20s will be more than 20,000 a year saved in your 40s and 30,000 a year saved in your 50s.
Take chances with your investments.
80% in a SP500 low fees index fund, 20% in stocks of products you love and go long. If the stocks increase 10,20,30 time and you still love the products… hold on them. As soon as the products become “meh” and you wouldn’t buy them… sell them even if you lost something.
Walmart is always hiring. The only requirement is your soul.
The only jobs where you can actually be employed relatively easily and make at least 50-ish k/yr right out of school is truck driving, nursing, and being an auto / truck mechanic
There’s always jobs for experienced engineers looking for entry level pay as a contractor with no benefits.
And for IT.
The title is so true. It took a year for my boyfriend actually get offers
if you are getting out of university now, you were likely not told you needed a degree by a boomer.