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AS S06E05 - Pink Table Talk [Post Episode Discussion]

AS S06E05 - Pink Table Talk [Post Episode Discussion]

Lolabird1010

Wtf why did ginger win? It was clearly either rajah or tkb


peldari

Why was Bianca there? Not that I'm not a fan of hers, but if you're gonna have her on use her better. Have her coach the queens when they need to do a comedy challenge or something. Having her show up, throw some shade and then leave kind of baffles me. Doesn't make her ook great and doesn't really make the show more interesting.


hypatiaplays

Particularly in Covid times? Like all the testing and stuff just to get Bianca Del Rio on to do...what? Weird choice. Even the dancers for the Super Bowl were wearing masks.


bklynprince

RuPaul done fucked up drag. I’m ready to see Scarlet on AS7 like for real


youwigglewithagiggle

Ugh, this challenge was so boring and most of the queens were trying too hard to be cute. Loved the runway, though, and the lipsync. And Aisha Tyler!


Jwalla83

I’m not saying Ginger didn’t deserve the win, but I’m baffled that there was basically *no* feedback as to why. “Hey Group A, you were the best! But Ginger wins. Anyways, leave.” Because I could’ve seen a few others winning it and I wanted judge feedback as to why


pink_and_orange

I’m late to the discussion and I know this is an unpopular opinion but I think Kylie is being judged too easily just like Bebe was when she was on All Stars. She’s quiet and doesn’t have a big personality so anything she does is not memorable. Her runways aren’t high fashion at all and if any other queen wore those outfits, they’d be told their clothes look cheap. Kylie literally only said she has a dog this episode. That’s it. Completely boring. I like her but I don’t think she’s as strong a competitor as they’re trying to portray her as and she clearly should’ve gone home this episode.


Mtanic

She did have that "Don't let your inner child make the grown up decisions" moment.


Impulsivitea_

If any challenge should be judged in teams I think it should be this one because the members have to work so intimately with each other and bounce off each other Imo the ranking should have been: 1. Sex Team (aka top 3) -Eureka (def deserved to win over Ginger) -Trinity (honestly trinity hasbeen doing so good and she deserves more recognition) -A'Keria 2. Motherhood Team (the safe team) -Ra'Jah -Scarlet -Kylie 3. Body Team -Ginger -Jan/Pandora Although I think Jan deserved the bottom. I don't like the narrative of people calling her disingenuous (same with scarlet) because we have no idea how these queens are behind the scenes and I think that comment really effected Jan when she cried in the confessional. People can be enthusiastic and bubbly by nature, even if you don't like it. Calling Scarlet's performance "uncomfortable" was also uncalled for imo


youwigglewithagiggle

Do people call her disingenuous, though? I feel like it's been more that she's one-note/ without-nuance, which, to me, mean something different; disingenuous suggests that Jan is actively trying to be fake or deceptive. I feel like someone should just say 'theatre-kid energy' and explain it to her, if necessary.


Brianas-Living-Room

It’s a shame that Scarlett is gonna carry that Uncomfortable label forever now, thanks to Ru.


lananeeneenoonoo

Eureka should have won. Kylie (worst in challenge) or Jan (worst runway) should have gone. Sad to see Scarlet leave


joejeffagenda

One day a RPDR episode will come out that's not just basically trauma porn for RuPaul, but today is not that day. Sigh. I do agree that the way Scarlet switched between her "real" self and her "performance" self was a little uncomfortable, but I thinl that comes down to her "performance" self being so different from her "real" one. I mean, if you look at the top group of A'keria, Eureka and TKB, all of them were putting on a character, but it didn't matter because it flowed well and felt natural. However I think in general this challenge was NOT judged fairly at all. Imo holding a talk show was a good idea, maybe even one where the queens get to be a little more vulnerable, but then judging it based on who had the most traumatic story to tell was bullshit. We're on Drag Race ffs, not some armchair psychology shit. Vulnerability, fine, but not this forced trauma dumping.


Badaroo

Ginger winning 25K .. hopefully now she can afford the designers hunny. That lip-sync was so good and entertaining and she looked good for once. Group Body was so entertaining. TKB looked amazing both in the challenge and on the runway. Rajah, TKB, Eureka & Ginger are for me the clear top four. I can see Ginger being eliminated from the final song purely based on her entrance look. Wishing KSL to bring the sass and country and get load in the following episodes. Feeling sympathetic for Jan knowing she has no chance of winning and how maybe it's not so beneficial for her how she's coming across. Looking forward for the game within a game thing and I hope it's something major. A sweet revenge from Miss Scarlet would be nice. This season is good. I like it.


Irish-liquorice

Anyone else particularly impressed with the runway themes this season?


TomHardyAsBronson

Is anyone else bummed we didn't get to hear Ginger talk about motherhood? It was nice to hear Scarlett effusive over her moms, and Rajah's comments made me love her so much. But Ginger's take, on becoming a mother as a queer gender non-conforming person is such a needed conversation.


MambyPamby8

This entire episode was YIKES. Oh Ru you're uncomfortable?! Well guess what, half the fanbase is fucking uncomfortable with you exploiting LGBTQ people's trauma for viewing ratings. This episode just made me feel dirty. Punishing Scarlett for being a drag queen?! Wtf was that? Telling Jan she's giving too much? I'm sorry WHAT? Yeah Jan stop giving 110% like 100% of the time. Fast forward to next episode judging "well Jan I just didn't feel like you gave us 100% this week". Oh fuck off. This episode left an extremely bad taste in my mouth.


NormalPencil

Entire episode was a f*cking train wreck. Completely agree with everything you’ve written. What a crap challenge lol


youwigglewithagiggle

Hmm, I actually agreed with Ru on Scarlett; her movement between real-talk and 'haha wink at the camera I'm a drag queen' persona was kind of awkward. I don't usually side with RuPaul, who's usually the one making me uncomfortable with her lack of empathy, but her advice to 'get both sides to meet in the middle' was really valuable, IMO. It seemed more like she was telling Scarlett to choose better times to move from one side of the personality spectrum than not to have a drag persona at all. That being said, I found *most* of the queens to be a bit OTT in that challenge. Everyone, except maybe Ra'jah, TKB, and Eureka (because she's always exuberant) looked like they were scared of getting critiqued for not having enough energy or something. Pretty cringey to me and, ultimately, unenjoyable.


astmd123

I’m late to watching but I agree so much with your comment. Everything about this episode was really bad.


MambyPamby8

It was so uncomfortable to watch. Scarlet's face was heartbreaking. She didn't deserve to go like that.


1of1legend

Even Ginger was shocked that she won. I thought someone from the winning team would win or Rajah. I thought the Bianca cameo was not rly needed or would’ve loved to see Bianca lip sync or something. Ru saying Scarlett made her uncomfortable was sooooo cringeyyyyyyy I couldn’t take it. I also cringed when Jan said ‘and that’s the vulnerability the judges are looking for’ during the challenge. On the other hand I understand how it feels to be judged negatively for who you are and how you present yourself so I felt bad for Jan. I still think out of the bottom queens Jan or Kylie should’ve went. Kylie for me hasn’t stood out as a winner even though she is gorgeous and has turned some looks. Would love to see a challenge showcasing her talents. Edit to add - After Scarlet said she didn’t have the worst critiques I was waiting for someone to tell the other queens what Ru said about Scarlet but it never happened. IMO being told you make someone uncomfortable is pretty bad but I still don’t think Scarlet should’ve gone home!


tepals

I feel they gave the win to Ginger so she'd eliminate Scarlet. They had the fight over motherhood, Ginger (probably) wasn't going to vote out teammate Jan, and Kylie is a non threat. Others have said they gave Ginger a comedy song to lipsync to so she could win. So that plus the fact that she really did not do the best in the challenge (Eureka or Trinity did) just makes it all seem fixed for Ginger to win...


Lavieenrose3

God, I really like Trinity this season. A lot of queens talk about how they’ve grown, but she has really grown. She’s killing the runways, has fun confessions and has something to say like in her pink table talk. Rooting for her. I feel Kylie is not a drag performer. I don’t have the feeling I get to know her, it’s all pretty bland. She does looks stunning on the runway I must say. I know this episode was very focused on emo moments, but I really enjoyed the episode. I like the personal stories of the queens.


apricotsandolives

Completely agree with Trinity but I have to disagree with Kylie, I think she’s fabulous and amazing representation for the community- however I can’t say I haven’t had this feeling though with certain queens, I struggle getting to know some of the new Ru girls 🤷🏼‍♀️ I will say tho, Bussy queen did an awesome video on confessionals screen time comparisons in AS6 which has made me rethink how I think about queens and the edits, especially after Pandora’s comments about earlier episodes If I can find it I’ll link it.


lukaeber

I have so many mixed feelings about this week. I looooooved the challenge. It was so fascinating to see the queens be real and vulnerable on the actual show. I hate that they were judged, however, on how vulnerable they could be. Since when is that part of drag? I think all the critiques from the judges were actually pretty fair this week, for once. I don't think Scarlet should have been in the bottom, but I completely understand and agree with the critiques she got. I'm not sure I agree with Ginger getting the win, but I loved her lip synch and agree that she won that. I understand why she chose Scarlet. Jan was on her team. And everyone loves Sonique. I haaaate that Scarlet went home. She was not even close to as bad as the other two. I can't think of a queen that I have had a bigger turn around on than Scarlet this season. I couldn't stand her on her original season, and I was not excited about her being on this season at all. But since the season started, she has completely won me over. She's amazing. I'm a huge fan now. She was not even close to being the worst in this challenge. If we are going by performance in the challenge, Sonique should have gone hands down. And while I'm a fan of Jan's, and feel like she's really gotten a raw deal from the judges, I could have understood why she would have went tonight too. Overall though, I hate that any of the queens got eliminated for this challenge. I loved watching the talk shows, but I hate that the queens basically got judged on who had the most emotional life experiences. They didn't choose that. This show should be based on talent, not on life experiences that they don't have the ability to control.


Brianas-Living-Room

I don’t think Jan was ready for AS yet. It was too soon. She still doesn’t get that people want to see other sides besides the peppy cheerleader. That’s what sent Olivia home too. They asked her week after week to give different emotions and every challenge it was 😀


survivingtheinternet

>😀 thanks for the laugh hahahahaha


hyperactivesoul

I disagree. I think she did not get a good shake on her season and this is supposed to be her getting a fair chance to start off on the right foot. Unfortunately, I don't think that's happen. Honestly believe that she's right about her suspicion that RuPaul just doesn't like her.


lukaeber

Totally agree ... she had no time to evolve from what we saw on her initial season. She should have said no.


peldari

I think she said yes because if she said no, there's no guarantee they'd ask her again. Plus with the pandemic, a lot of queens haven't had time to 'evolve' because opportunities to perform have been hugely limited. So she might not have changed much even by AS7 or 8. I think she's hoping she'll get a third chance somewhere down the line, since that's apparently a thing the franchise is doing now. She's shown she can be a team player and work with the narrative the producers want to give her, so maybe they'll be more willing to ask her back and give her a winners edit.


Nikeororo

Have y'all considered that having them chat about these topics is a way to have them be more relatable to the audience and for us to see the human side of these performers? I agree that it is wrong to try to get vulnerability out of someone by forcing them to talk about their traumas, but I also get that maybe the show is trying to create an opportunity for the queens to show something deeper than just the entertainers we see performing on stage. I personally really enjoy getting to know more about the queens' lives outside of and before drag. This does not mean that they _have to_ tell us anything about them that they do not feel comfortable sharing for them to be relatable, but I found that this challenge allowed us to get to know them a little more regarding the topic they were given. I wish this was the first challenge so that all the queens were given this opportunity. Being a drag queen is not just putting on hair and makeup and doing an acting/singing/dancing/sewing challenge and reading one another. There are real people with real stories under there. I am one of the people that get quite annoyed when the judges go on about not "seeing vulnerability" from queens, especially when their drag persona is the super polished and always put together type, so I understand some of the viewers' frustrations at the judges' critiques this week. I just disagree that this challenge should not have happened. Challenges like these are an essential part of drag race because it allows us to get to know more about these queens past the drag, and the world sees them as living breathing human beings with thoughts and emotions and stories and lives. The world needs to see and hear more about people in the LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC communities and not just see these parts of people as performative, and I think shows like RPDR and challenges like these help with that.


NovaRogue

Clock the flair but I am VERKLEMPT. Scarlet's run literally would have been HIGH - HIGH - HIGH (maybe even WIN) - SAFE before tonight, *if* the judges didn't sleep on her. The bubbles were great and fun, her Blue Ball gown was jaw droppingly gorgeous, and I fully thought Exor-Size was the best commercial. And then her Baroque gown? To die for. From the track record she has, I can't disagree with her elimination this week - but I am **T I R E D** of her being overlooked 💔💔


Brianas-Living-Room

Exorcisize was a lot of fun and I thought she and Kylie played off each other very well as the ditzy 976 type sexy exorcists.


greatjake122

Scarlett's critiques were so weird. Ross said she went into being "performancy" and it was less interesting. Then Aisha Tyler said something about not wanting to take "the mask" off so to speak. Ru was close to getting to something when she said that Scarlet hasn't found that sweet spot between her real self and her drag persona. I think what they were trying to say is " Your acting challenge drag persona is very different from your personal persona and you switching between the two was very noticeable. Also we don't like your acting drag persona, real you is more interesting, be more that when you're in drag. " Cause Ginger had a whole lotta performanc-y moments, it just blended better with who she is as a person. I mean she talked about bowel obstructions, and then by the end of her groups thing she basically went "ya'll come back now y'hear!" \*cheesy smile\* and not just ginger, most everyone in this challenge was going in and out of being draggy and amped up, and "vulnerable" and real. And of course, It's drag race for pete's sake! So it's more like "we don't like your drag persona acting, its not vibing with your vulnerable side, do something different" but instead she weirdly gets told she's being too fake, and hiding behind a character. ALSO Who else here thought the editing with the silent Pandora reacting with a blank face through all of Ginger and all of Jan's sections, was showing how she was not doing well. Where's her personality? How did Scarlett do worse than her. The judging is driving me insane this season lol.


Brianas-Living-Room

Pandora seems…..missing this season. Idk if it’s because she’s older and 10 years have passed since we last saw her on but somethings different this time. Could be that they’re not showing her enough but she seems not even there


lukaeber

I understand the Scarlet critiques. She kept switching between being real and vulnerable and being her drag persona. The whole challenge was really weird, although I enjoyed it. It wasn't very clear what they were supposed to do. I hate that Scarlet left. I don't think she did anywhere close to the worst and I don't think she should have been in the bottom. I don't think this is an appropriate challenge for judging at all, however. It basically turned into who had the most traumatic story to tell. That's not fair. I did enjoy the challenge itself, and I thought that the judging was essentially fair, but I hate that it was judged at all.


DaughterOfGaladriel

I agree with you on the challenge not being clear! This was one of those moments where I felt that the queens who didn’t do as well maybe… “didn’t understand the assignment.” And I wonder how much info they were given behind the scenes to explain what they were supposed to do. Has there ever been a challenge on drag race that required the queens to be (or appear) so authentic? I’m not surprised Scarlet tried to maintain her drag persona at times… she’s a drag artist and that’s what they do!!! I feel like it should have been made clearer that they were supposed to sound conversational and not memorized, because there’s no precedent for that (I think) on the show.


greatjake122

You're right. I enjoyed the challenge too, in that I got to know about the queens lives more, but Its weird to judge them on sharing their difficult personal life stories, while they're also telling them to make it entertaining for the challenge. I was thinking before it started it would be closer to like the news segment type challenges they've done before. I think that would have been better.


hisokafan88

I don't think so, but i see what you mean, absolutely. I genuinely, as soon as Scarlet began, without knowing any spoilers or how the episode was gonna go, thought "scarlet is not comfortable doing this and i bet she's in the bottom." Especially after how natural that first group was. I thought pandora might end up in the bottom for the same reason, except she did better at responding to Ginger and Jan while Scarlets only interaction (that we saw) with her teammates was "that's awful" to Ra'jah.


greatjake122

you bring up fair points. I just IDk I want to feel more Joy from Pandora on this show and I feel like I'm only getting tastes of it, and I want more. And I was enjoying Scarlett's screen time. But there's still the "game within a game" for more Scarlett and a real good chance for Pandora to stand out next episode.


hisokafan88

I feel the same way. I find it funny how Pandora has been quite critical of her edit on twitter, so I'm wondering if she's either unaware of how quiet she is (compared to the rest of the cast) or there have been a lot of moments cut which show a lighter Pandora. Still, next week should be a showcase for her. Tbh i really liked her Carol, and so did Bob, so I guess that's something lol


greatjake122

Okay now that I found this lol, 2.5k comments is a lot, maybe that's why its not pinned anymore.


ryke916

I thought the first team did the worst, but what do I know.


RafLucci

Im alarmed at the level of fragility that’s going on in the comments and the fandom. I may not like some of the decisions the judges make but I have no right to dictate nor influence how they choose to judge. There seems to be an obvious disconnect from what the judges are looking for and what the fans think/assume they’re looking for (🙄.) Until the show’s judging and voting becomes viewer generated people need to back off with the whining and I—know-better-than-you attitude. It’s not like any of your names are in the title of the show. Stop dictating how people should feel, react, and judge especially towards people of color.


joejeffagenda

I think you're in the wrong place then... this is literally a space where people can discuss what they liked and didn't like about the show in detail, I don't think anyone's trying to dictate anything. If it makes you so mad, maybe just stop reading the comments


DaughterOfGaladriel

Can we talk about how fantastic Ginger looked in her lip sync outfit?! Those boots! Her legs! I loved it! I’d like to see more of this aesthetic from her going forward— it’s so glam and sexy while still remaining true to the campiness that makes Ginger who she is.


TomHardyAsBronson

I really adore ginger. I think she's one of the most talented people that's ever been on the show. She seems like a consummate professional.


ichbindertod

It was the only look of the night, to me, that told a story the second she stepped onto the runway. The whole thing was just perfect.


roidesmouches

So confused by this episode… What was that challenge? Since when drag artists aren’t allowed to use a persona when they perform? Why was Scarlet eliminated? Why was the judging so disrespectful? How did I endure such a cringe fest? WHO THE FUCK PRODUCE THIS SHIT?


ushikagawa

This was the first episode where I honestly think they crossed a line. The judging was infuriatingly unfair all around, and Ru's critiques to Scarlet and Jan were straight up bullshit and unproffesional


rayonicc__

this episode was weird to me. I loved hearing what all the queens had to speak about, I agree Eureka's group flowed the best and sure ginger's win is deserved too. But when it came to judging the bottoms.... i didnt understand. Ru basically applauded Ra'Jah for almost having a breakdown and then disliked scarlett and jan for being too 'performative'... they're drag queens? They're literal performers? Im tired of Ru expecting everyone to cry and spill their hearts out all the time, I thought both Jan and Scarlet did well. I couldn't pick who did the worst because everyone had something interesting to say. Just weird to have a whole challenge totally based off who could be the most venerable.


eroticbiscotti

it's kind of ironic for michelle and ru to come for people's personalities when they are 1 dimensional caricatures themselves for maximum marketability


EducationalExtreme61

This is one of the best AS because the queens are so lovable, but the production and judging panel has become such a turn off.


ushikagawa

>Vote > >ReplyGive AwardShareReport Yup, I really feel like this season proves how the queens are what make the show worth watching, and everything else is contrived bullshit


eroticbiscotti

the blantant exploitation of collective trauma is reaching gross out levels in record time in this season


Netherbelle

I love Ginger, but I don't think she should have won because her job was moderator. Right? And she didn't moderate fairly, because it felt like Pandora got no time.


Netherbelle

So... did Scarlet go home because she was too happy? Did she not have enough baggage for this show's weird fetish for people's trauma?


lukaeber

It sure seemed that way.


blushmango

honestly if the “game within a game” isn’t just a full out brawl i will be disappointed bc it’s been hyped so much


urfavgalpal

The judging has gotten more produced in the last couple of episodes. Jan and Ginger’s wins are acceptable enough I guess, but it’s getting right up to that line I think this week with the winning queen not being part of the winning group. Idk I don’t have a major issue with overproduced judging if it makes the show more entertaining, but usually it’s the opposite with drag race.


eroticbiscotti

i feel like they're trying to push ginger into the winners spot which i almost want to happen so she can stop coming on the show and i have nothing against her drag, they just seem to be trying to force it


urfavgalpal

I like Ginger and her drag and I honestly have been rooting for her to do well but the lip sync was the first time I was really excited by what she’s brought to AS6. It honestly makes it so hard to root for a queen though when it feels like she’s getting passes


eroticbiscotti

it kind of reminds me of alyssa in her AS season. i like ginger too! but it doesn't feel sincere to me as a viewer.


EducationalExtreme61

Not to mention that Ru and Michelle sound more and more robotic in their judging. I remember the early seasons where they would actually talk about each contestant in a more natural amd fluid way.


fuckyourcousinsheila

Can we stop with “anybody who is upset by x’s elimination or jumps to y’s defense is just a delusional stan” it’s such a stupid comment and it shows up literally every time people try to support a queen when she’s gotten bad critiques or gets eliminated Like who gives a fuck if stans are supporting the person they support it’s nobody’s responsibly to police how other people feel. If I want to be pissed about somebody’s elimination i can be. Dont come and accuse me of being delusional for not thinking the way you do. It’s a subjective competition, we all have opinions, as long as they aren’t based in bigotry or violence why do people feel the need to tear somebody down by saying “oh the only people who actually thought you did well that episode were delusional stans”


hellageller

THIS. Thank you! Tempted to purchase coins just so this comment can be more seen.


banana-official

For me, this is the final straw. I am so sick of the rigging and emotional blackmail that comes with this show. Why the fuck is 'motherhood' brought up alongside 'body' and 'sex'?!?! It has been clear for a long time that RuPaul digs and fishes for emotional topics. Every queen has to have 'vulnerability' apparently but instead of that meaning all queens have to be understanding and open, it means queens have to have serious trauma they're willing to spill on television. Scarlet did not deserve to home. RuPaul should be ashamed.


Round-Tangelo

My heart breaks for Scarlett, she did not deserve to go home this week. It was so clear how much she adored her moms and how excited she was to share that. How anyone can find that uncomfortable is beyond me.


thebigman045

That elim was telegraphed before the challenge started...an actual edit for the eliminated queen, sad to see her go though, has a real southern belle charm about her drag


starkid910

For weeks I’ve been seeing people talk about how the producers are fucking with Jan and trying to get an emotional response/breakdown out of her. And then it happens, and now I’m seeing people talking smack about her about this whole thing, not believing her about why she chose A’Keria’s lipstick, etc, and it just makes me sad because it feels so “fair-weather fan”. It’s clear she’s taking on a lot of extra pressure (some of which is admittedly of her own making) and it’s affecting her game.


lukaeber

Her breakdown felt very real to me. The producers have done a number on her. While I understand her critiques this episode, and agree that she should have been in the bottom (if there had to be a bottom for this inappropriate challenge), Ru and the producers have manipulated her so much that I completely understand her frustration. It's heartbreaking.


SayceGards

Her breakdown killed me. I've been there. I've felt that broken before and I know how she's feeling. And I just wanted to hug her and tell her it's going to be OK. It's just not fair to fuxk with people like that


RafLucci

Guess what?! Some people just don’t like Jan and for valid reasons. I honestly thought it was hilarious how the other queens spoke my exact sentiments about her but when I typed it on this board I got downvoted. People can see Jan for what she is, it’s her that can’t see it herself. No one is “fucking with her” they’re trying to see the real her because they honestly haven’t yet


taeilor

Out of a morbid curiosity as a huge Jan fan, can i ask what those reasons are? There are probably things i'm not seeing as i am a fan


boo_you_horcrux

I can’t speak for that commenter, but I can say I don’t care for Jan’s sense of entitlement and defensiveness. She comes across as a very privileged queen who thinks she’s owed wins or praise for just performing up to par. She comes across as disingenuous when she says things like she’s only crying because Brita went home instead of because she lost the rusical or how she back pedaled on voting for A’Keria. It’s also cringey to watch her self produce so much and try to shoehorn catch phrases or Jan signatures (stop trying to make lavender happen) in an inorganic way. Those are my valid, albeit subjective, reasons.


taeilor

I totally get the whole backpedaling thing, I definitely think she wanted to save face. As for the Brita thing, i think she definitely didn't want to come across as a sore "loser" and used Brita as a scape goat so I understand that too. I really love her and want her to do well but I definitely think the reaction to her on her season has given herself a slight sense of entitlement. She knows people think she should've this challenge or that challenge so it's kind of inflated her ego a little? It's not necessarily a bad thing because. a lot of queens can be cocky and demanding but yeah, I can see what you mean about it being a little cringy


TomHardyAsBronson

I'm a fan of Jans but have been really turned off by her people pleasing. She doesn't show her own point of view; she shows what she thinks people want her to show.


Nikeororo

Facts are facts America👏🏾


artifexlife

If Jan lies low and come back in a few years those same “fans” will act like she was treated unfairly like they did with Laganja


krystopolus

Scarlett definitely did not deserve to go home. I didn't think she did too bad in the challenge and her runway was beautiful. I was so excited when she came back for All Stars!


LetsGetRowdyRowdy

I think it was a difficult decision. I think it was pretty close between whether her or Jan should go home, and if I were voting, I would have picked Scarlet too for 2 reasons - their records (Jan had already had a win under her belt, and Scarlet has been safe everytime), and the fact that I simply think Jan was more memorable both on her original season and All Stars than Scarlet was, and Jan has more star quality than Scarlet that would make her a viable competitor to continue in the game.


OldCamp3500

I dont understand why nobody is talking about that Sonique should be the one who had to go home. Jan and Scarlet should have been in the top in almost half of the challenges and Sonique was just… kinda there


krystopolus

I wasn’t going to say it because Kylie has a huge fan base but yeah girl I would have chose her to go home. I’m not a huge fan.


MambyPamby8

Yeah I agree. At least Jan and Scarlett were memorable. I can't remember a damn thing Sonique has done this entire season except look really pretty.


LetsGetRowdyRowdy

I’m a Kylie stan so I realize I may look at her with rose colored glasses, but based on the fact that none of the queens voted for her to go home I guess they agreed with me too


day-glow-joe

what got up ru’s ass today? my goodness he was so mean and personal to scarlett. no wonder she literally blocked it out straight afterwards. rupaul is obsessed with ripping people open that when he sees queens like scarlett or tayce who are just… happy… he dislikes them. sorry you are not traumatized enough for ru-emotional vampire-paul


Munvi

Such a fucked up comment? Like what made you uncomfortable. I get that the flow wasn't that natural for scarlet but not something to call out like that and not give anything further to work with.


Netherbelle

The fact you think that comment calling out Ru for this is 'fucked up' but not Ru's behavior is ???????????????


Ok_Concept

I dont think you have read their comment efficiently


Munvi

No I mean Rus comment is fucked up


krisis

This point has always been obvious to me, but it never *hit* for me before as it does seeing you draw the connection between Ru's obvious annoyance with both Tayce and Scarlet.


Bvttle

Exploitation in the name of Emmys..


MarkAscending

Ginger picking Scarlet was shady because either Jan or Sonique should have gone. Also the fashion is really weak and subpar in this season. Season 13 was way better. Raja was the only one I liked this week.


breakfastdemon

This episode all round felt exploitative and gross. Since when is having to confess all your personal shit part of being a drag queen


tommydmac

I wanna know what kind of uppers Ru takes on those days he shoots the season promos and an episode in the same day lol


-Xoz-

Sex, Body and Motherhood. One of them is not like the other two. They could have gone for Love, Relationships or even Drag.


DRES_Neptuna

A million other topics besides motherhood. Money, drugs, alcohol, gender expression, fame, social media...


BlankNothingNoDoer

At what point does forcing people to talk about trauma and family issues become exploitative? Before this season filmed I knew that A'keria had lived as a woman but I also knew that she didn't like to talk about it. This episode felt rather uncomfortable for me.


Ierpier

I was in STITCHES through that lip sync. Ginger cracked me up so badly lmao.


Bvttle

After this episode I completely understand why someone chooses not to do all stars. Super uncomfortable and they were all cornered to talk about things they were uncomfortable talking about. If they didn't, get put in the bottom. Personally I think Kylie was the weakest in terms of performance, and all she said was she has a dog? But I honestly feel the judging is based on other things first... Sadly drag race isn't really about talent anymore


OldCamp3500

I love drag race so much, but I kinda feel that I will not be watching anymore in a few years. The judging is so questionable and its just not really fun to watch. And Sonique should have gone home. Jan and Scarlet were killing this season so far amd they did not deserved to go home


Bvttle

Since VH1 got their hands on it, it's not really been the same. It was amazing with Logo TV, and world of wonder. But now the American version feels way too rigged and produced. That's one reason the international versions (excluding down under) seem to feel more authentic.


datalands

I don't think it's fair to have the queens divulge personal stories about their lives in a roundtable setting and then judge them on their performance. It feels so icky to watch others being judged on their deliverance of their past traumas and struggles. What was the criteria? How "real" they were? How many punchlines they could get in? Were they supposed to be acting as themselves or acting as their drag personas? They're in their characters but referencing their actual lives outside of drag. It broke my heart to see Scarlet get critiqued so harshly when she was legitimately excited and so loving towards her two moms. All of those really sweet feelings were so evident and clearly authentic. I don't think she deserved to go at all. I am a huge Jan stan, but I can objectively see that Jan probably should have been the one.


Szarvas14

Also its not super important since this challenge was kind of gross to begin with, but Jans outfit at the roundtable didn't make any sense! At least Scarlett dressed for a talk show.


tepals

I didn't know about A'keria's case, maybe I'm wrong but I'd never heard of her bringing it up before. Learning about it was very interesting but I can't help but feel it's "prying"... her conversation was very natural and easy to take in, but I can't help feel this isn't how she wanted to divulge it. I get that she "chose" to but it's telling she hadn't touched on that before. It was a private matter that the producers prompted for her to share. It feels so contrived and weird to then judge her on how she presented such an emotionally charged and complex issue.


datalands

I felt this way too! De-transitioning is a very complex topic in general and to just casually drop that bit didn't feel like the proper space or timing for it. I really don't feel like anyone should be prompted to share details about their transition/de-transition unless they totally want to AND there is going to be enough space for it to land properly with the speaker and the viewers.


brynquinn

detransitioning is very complex topic, but its important to talk about, and i think considering the category was so broad it really did seem like a'keria made a conscious "unforced" choice to talk it about it. it felt to me like it was her own way of coming out about detransitioning publicly. she seemed comfortable and brought it up confidently, and (if not coerced) i could see how a challenge would be a nice way to bring it up. i dont think theres necessarily a "proper" way to talk about your experience. im genderfluid and i've come out during a drinking game and an among us game with my friends. and thats what felt best for me at the time!


tepals

I agree with you on all points. It's just that the show has a track record of prodding for drama and wringing the girl's difficult experiences for "good tv" (and then playing armchair psychologist) so that when we see a story like A'keria's it makes us suspicious of how exploitative the circumstances were. This time, as you point out, it seemed A'Keria volunteered that specific topic on her own accord, and the show presents it as such, but at the end of the day they judged her on it. I just feel like the show gave them a platform to be vulnerable and then punished them for not doing it a certain way. This time A'Keria was fine but the challenge felt morally iffy.


FalmerEldritch

There's a word for listening to someone open up and be vulnerable and authentic, it's "therapist", and it's supposed to pay $70/hr and up depending on where you're doing it. I don't like it on my light frothy entertainment show. Stop trying to be Dr. Phil, Ru.


BlankNothingNoDoer

Even Dr. Phil is a very poor example of a therapist. What he and RuPaul do is not therapy and it is not actually trying to be therapy. It is rather Marianne Williamson's spiritual self-help presented in a "therapeutic" entertainment format. Both of them have been followers of hers for 30 or 40 years. They don't talk about it a lot but that's on purpose. Oprah is another prominent follower. Michelle, too.


FalmerEldritch

Of course Dr. Phil is a poor example of a therapist. What I'm referring to is that the show keeps making *us* be the therapist and listen to someone opening up and being vulnerable and authentic, and we're not even getting paid to suffer through it.


datalands

I think a better solve would be to have the queens to do ridiculous or outlandish funny topics instead of serious ones.


stardust_goddess108

Trinity, Ra'Jah, and Scarlet's looks were by far my favorites. Scarlet's judging made no sense whatsoever. No T no shade, Ginger's runway was ok but did not feel like boots fit (although I suppose that's what clash meant in this challenge idk anymore). Jan's look wasn't my favorite either. (I'm writing all this but I could never create a look myself, respect to all these queens). V sad w/ who went home.


123Disneyfan

I found the challenge itself uncomfortable, as Ru would say. It felt like the queens were being judged on how they spoke on their experiences, which is their own to convey in any manner they want. Granted, the challenge seemed like a “fun” one in theory but, in reality, it just felt a bit too out of line to judge, especially when some serious and real matters are being discussed.


ashleymac1613

YES. I was just about to make almost the exact same post. Queens got dinged for being in their drag character... On a show for drag queens? It was so unclear what the challenge was supposed to be. Why have them get in drag if you want them to just divulge their own individual traumas? Also when I talk about deep personal things I often crack jokes, have high energy, or make silly faces, not because I'm not being real but because it's easier to tell my story that way. A lot of people cope by putting on a silly face and that's OK! It all felt very strange to me.


Bvttle

Completely agree. There's other ways to show vulnerability of the contestants instead of forcing them to talk about things they don't want to talk about most likely. And they judged those poorly if they didn't share something dark enough... I understand what scarlet was doing as well, because she was trying to keep it light hearted and entertaining between the serious tone, so it's not just depressing to watch.. but hey, it's reality TV, you sign and they can make you say whatever.


datalands

Completely agree!!


TallTown96

Yes maybe Jan should have gone home this week but how could Ginger vote out her team mate? I also knew it definitely wasn’t going to be her when Ginger gave her teammates a bit of the prize money!!


urfavgalpal

I would have picked Jan to go home because it seems like the critiques aren’t resonating with her so I’m not sure where she goes from here, but I agree completely. Why would Ginger send home someone who contributed to her success and win?


tepals

I was a little shocked to learn Kylie voted for Scarlet, her teammate. I mean I get that they had a little tiff but...idk they worked as a team, the outcome reflected on them all.


apricotsandolives

Ngl if I was Kylie and Scarlet had spoken to me that way before the challenge (which lets face it, wasn’t constructive and could have affected my performance) I’d of probably voted her off too 🤣


tepals

Lool I mean you might be right, but it looked like Kylie was overly bothered by it, which might be on her, not on Scarlet. Also, when she was put in the bottom, didn't everyone agree Kylie was too quiet or didn't hav enough spark? Eureka and others were telling her to be louder and stuff. So I mean, it wasn't Scarlet being overly critical. Maybe they didn't like each other already, who knows.


apricotsandolives

Yeah she was quiet, but Scarlet came through ready to throw Jan under the bus so I think it came down to either tactical or friendships. Here for the drama though ☕️


helvetica_unicorn

Wtf is with the judging this season?!? Why was it a group win if Ginger was the winner? Actually a Trinity v Bianca interaction would be fun. It’s so clear that Jan and Scarlet were brought back as filler. The judges: Jan show us your real personality *Jan shows personally* The judges: Thanks, we hate it


Munvi

Dude Im not a jan fan, but why they gotta do her like that man. I feel bad for her, and I would feel bad if I were in her shoes.


ashleymac1613

Judging as a group vs judging as individuals is purely a production tool. There's no consistency in it whatsoever.


MaradoMarado

>Actually a Trinity v Bianca interaction would be fun. Wow this really would have fed us all


123Disneyfan

Actually, you’re so right. We all know how production loves “gag worthy” moments and a Trinity and Bianca interaction would have done it given their history and Trinity’s growth since their original season. Big L, especially since Trinity could have also easily won this week’s challenge (along with her other teammates). I know when I saw Bianca, I immediately had hoped for an interaction between her and Trinity.


ThatfeelingwhenI

I think the winning group benefited from all three engaging and understanding the assignment. Ginger's group had three who all came at it differently but Ginger managed to moderate fantastically despite her teammates not quite being on her level when it came to the assignment. From that point of view, I think she absolutely deserved the win


DilapidatedHam

No hate intended but I just don’t understand why ginger won. She did well, but any one of the winning team should have been the winner imo. I do mostly agree with the bottom, Jan did the worst overall but Scarlett was about the same level


Healing_touch

Honestly I think Gingers assignment was harder because the two teammates were giving her too much or nothing and she singlehandedly kept it from a full train wreck. Imagine if the other two moderators were there… I think eureka would have fed off of Jan’s energy (which is not a bad thing! Just saying that possibly would have been how it went) trying to turn it into something better, which is a talent but would have gotten it chaotic and Kylie I think would have been more focused on getting pandora out of her shell and possibly steam rolled by Jan like she was by Scarlett. Part of why the winning team was the best was they were the most cohesive, but it was easier for all because all knew the assignment. So idk I look at this like a teacher recognizing that whole one team had a lower grade, then also realized one student did all the work to make it happen and gave her the A. The winning team was deserving but I think ginger did a spectacular job considering.


DilapidatedHam

I just don’t think it’s fair to a group that objectively did better to reword someone for working with worse teammates. Sticking with the grades, Ginger did a B+ at best for her work carrying the other two, while Eureka’s whole group was an A. I just think the group that presented the best overall assignment should have won, but I can definitely see your perspective too


HingisFan

This show isn’t about being fair


DilapidatedHam

Oh that much has been made clear, but I’m still gonna bitch about it lol


Healing_touch

I don’t disagree your perspective, this is just mine. It’s confusing; but ru is all over the place and I can understand and appreciate her win, even if ru’s criteria


_mireme_

Akeria's spongebob comment to Trinity sent me 🤣 I love the interactions between all of the cast but the Akeria/TKB/Ra'ajah chats are awesome.


cyankitten

OMG YES I agree about all of this & the interaction between the 3 of them is one of my fave things to see.


uniqaa

Ru saying to Scarlet “you made me uncomfortable” made me uncomfortable, because what kind of constructive criticism is that? It would feel like a punch in the stomach if I would be Scarlet. Like I got what Ross was saying and I wish they would leave it at that.


dalehitchy

Yeah.... I have to say... Ru is starting to be an uncomfortable person to watch. He's had outbursts on the UK version that was uncalled for. I also feel like he doesn't like queen's to be famous before the show and tends to eliminate famous queen's first. The scarlet criticism felt personal and wasn't constructive at all. Im no die hard scarlet fan but she's beeb safe every week yet her runways have been on another level. Ive has the feeling she didn't like scarlet at all from the start of this season.


sendenten

I adore Scarlet, but she also made me uncomfortable. I completely agree with the critique that she can't find the middle ground between her "boy" self and her drag character. She would swing from an emotional story about her moms to the same expressions and exclamations she made on the Mariah televangelist challenge from s11. It really felt like she was stumbling over herself on camera and was falling back on a goofy character to avoid being *too* open. I absolutely agree Jan should have gone home and would have if anyone but Ginger won that challenge. But I agree with Ru's critique.


Triumphail

Uh… the votes were an exact 50/50 split for the other girls, with Ginger breaking the tie for Scarlet. So this entire elimination was divisive…


oakbones

I'm sorry but Scarlet didn't deserve to go home tonight. IMO Pandora deserved to go, she barely spoke during her teams segment and her runway was pretty half-hearted and busted. While Scarlet's group was arguably the "worst", Rupaul chose Ginger to win so why couldn't have she chosen bottoms from across all the groups?


Munvi

Pandora has been sliding yo.


ThatfeelingwhenI

It's edited.


[deleted]

Well there is not a daily discussion post, so I am throwing this into the ether here. So frustrated. Tickets to see Trixie and Katya next spring went on sale this afternoon... except, the venue where they will perform did not offer any orchestra seats for sale. The venue is itself a ticket scalper, and reserved every single ticket on the first floor to re-sell for exorbitant profit out of its own box office. Of course they also charge you $20 for the privilege of buying a ticket through them, and then they charge you another $15 to pick up the ticket. They also tried to sell me access to a semi-private bathroom for $25. I wish the artists would or could sell the tickets themselves, directly. We have the technology. Instead, both the queens and the fans are being absolutely bilked. So I'm not going. I'm not going to pay hundreds of dollars over the price that T&K set for these seats (if they ever come available). The performers aren't getting this money. The venue and its many armed entertainment overlords are getting this money, by monopolizing their own supply. Fucking broken unregulated everything ruining everything.


yeswereonredditluann

Did I…like Eureka a lot this episode? I haven’t always been a huge fan, but I really enjoyed her and I love-love-loved her runway!!


TallTown96

I found myself enjoying Eureka this episode too!! I feel like in every all stars season I come out liking a Queen I didn’t and then not feeling so fondly about another that I had originally liked!


Falris

I'm kinda the opposite in a sense haha. Granted I was in a similar boat for her previous seasons, but this was basically the only episode this season where I wasn't a fan of *some* of the stuff she was doin. But in general I've really been enjoyin her this whole season!


DilapidatedHam

She has really ha evolved a lot! She still has that same high energy goofiness, but it really feels like she has matured and refined how she presents it. If you are enjoying her, I can’t recommend enough that you check our “Were here”, she shows a lot of warmth that really turned me into a fan


medusicah

Seconded. We're here is amazing and it made me fall in love with her too.


yeswereonredditluann

I need to watch it!!


ichbindertod

Ginger had my favourite runway?!?!?!??!?!?!?! She so deserved to win the lipsync, too. You go, girl. The challenge itself was so uncomfortable and I'm not sure who I would have made the winner. I think the right team won, though. The body talk one in particular was too real and I almost had to skip it, made me way too uncomfortable for a light entertaintment show. They really found a way to mine that tragedy, though. Wow.


sendenten

Ginger going "wow, I didn't realize we were all so fucked up" was the perfect way to end the whole challenge.


Healing_touch

Yeah I think it’s weird they had sex on there and then added two other topics that doesn’t have the vers that one does. Motherhood at its best is talking about how great the moms are (but obvi ru wanted that emotional “my mama dont love me” thing) and body…. Is a really heavy topic for what was supposed to be a satirical challenge. Idk why there wasn’t one about community and DRAG mothers. So many avenues for fun AND heavy discussions… do you date in the drag world, your drag mama relationship, what it was like coming into a community of acceptance that still has exclusivity judgements, pull the curtain back a little about behind the scenes at clubs and shows, a true cost of being a queen (life, money, time) etc etc I have a very complicated relationship with my mom so like Miss Raj’ah I would have also freaked the fuck out the next day about over sharing/what did i just do… Idk it feels gross and inappropriate. Ru really bothers the fuck outta me


ButtonCake

Could the motherhood group taken it in the drag mother direction, though? I was surprised that they didn't.


Healing_touch

I think they took it too literal because of scarlet but considering ru always talks about her mom I’m assuming we all would make a similar logic leap


AvidProgressive

Honestly, here are my thoughts. Jan should have gone home. I’m tired of the meh runways and the exact same “this is who i Am!” narrative going around and around. She’s just not giving as fresh of an overall presentation as the other queens. Kylie is starting to get a little bit boring to me. I get that everyone loves her and all, but she got defensive when Scarlet said “hey so this week youre gonna show more of yourself right?” and then, predictably, kind of flopped. Whoops! I probably would have brought that up during deliberations if I had been Scarlet. I like Scarlet quite a bit, but it was clear she wasn’t going to win the season. She is still a bit stiff but much much better than S11. I would have liked to see Jan go home instead of her, but its fine. Right now it seems the top 4 will be Eureka, Trinity, Ra’jah, and Ginger/Akeria.


Roxy_wonders

I think that everyone did well this episode and I honestly don’t get why Scarlett was sent home. All the critiques were so weird, like how could Ru say she makes him uncomfortable just because...? Also the whole Bianca bit... like girl, let us see you lip sync, otherwise it’s so we remember you exist


Ok_Concept

I dont think a single person who is a fan of Drag Race can forget who Bianca Del Rio is, a very odd comment


Roxy_wonders

Unpopular opinion but I think Bianca is overrated. I liked her a lot in her season but she really only has one shtick


Healing_touch

I personally thought the Bianca thing was so funny. I’m wondering if she was filming something else and they were like “this would be hilarious” and to me it was? It even made me more gagged for miss Kennedy. Edit: don’t type and watch whatcha packin with Kennedy when you mean mayhem. The disrespect I just did 🥴


glamtronian_princess

Mayhem was the assasin no?


Healing_touch

Omg I was watching whatcha packing with Kennedy when I typed this. I feel fucking stupid


glamtronian_princess

I do things like this all the time. Btw shows you have taste, watching Kennedy on the pit stop


TheSamePart

Okay is it just me but where Scarlett and Jan’s critiques not constructive in the slightest. Scarlett was told she basically makes Ru feel uncomfortable and like what’s she supposed to do with that, like where does she go from that? Whilst Jan was told to be herself but to change everything about herself at the same time, completely disregarding that what they see of Jan is her authentic self. It was a very weird episode like the judging made me feel like gross


RafLucci

Here’s my take on it. Jan doesn’t come across as Authentic just like laganja did but for Jan it’s more that she’s always acting instead of being. Every time I’m on stage I’m reminded that she’s just acting instead of embodying a drag persona and it’s very apparent even the other contestants have clocked it.


MaradoMarado

Re jan, the judges just want to see the toned down side of her personality. It's okay to be high energy, chipper, and professional, but Jan absolutely has other sides to her personality and they want her to tap into those parts more, especially if the challenge calls for it. I think that's why they liked her Gaga performance; she wasn't afraid to make the contorted faces and jerky movements and break out of her usual demeanor.


DRES_Neptuna

Jan reminds me of a few acquaintances of mine (and of myself) in that she usually seems to be trying to please other people's tastes rather than showing off what she likes. And I realize that there's a positive and healthy way to be a "people-pleaser". But for some people, it can manifest in an unhealthy way where your actions are based way too much on other people and not on yourself. I feel like this is what the judges are trying to get from Jan, and I see it. I don't see a clear personal aesthetic. I don't really know what she herself likes or some of the grainier details of her personality. Mainly, I get the impression that she wants to win the judges' and the audiences' approval, and that rubs me the wrong way. Don't get me wrong, I love Jan and support her drag. But I can see that there is something off that could take her to an even higher place. For me, she could have used a year or two more to grow her drag identity and to reflect. Instead, she's lowering into a space of needing more approval.


Falris

I dunno, to me oddly enough I can tell Jan has been trying to tone down the energy, but at the same time, it feels like when she does, she *still* doesn't get good critiques. Though I get the judges just wanting to see different sides to Jan in general.


MaradoMarado

That's true, it seems like she can't really win the judges over, which is what caused her frustration this episode. I like Jan a lot and I agree that it does seem like she's trying but the judges just don't vibe with her for whatever reason. I do wonder what ends up on the cutting room floor that we don't see from her tho.


TheSamePart

Honestly all tea I get the impression that Ru genuinely does not like Jan. there’s just something ironically “inauthentic” with the way in which Ru interacts with her


_astronautmikedexter

Eureka, A'keria and Trinity - best pink table talk, why tf didn't one of them get the win?! Make that make sense, Ru. At least my girl A'keria was safe this time. Ginger - the win? Her talk wasn't the worst, obviously, but it was forgettable, imo. When she won I had to think back to what she did, even though it was like 15 min later lol. That bitch _won_ that lipsync though. And a Bianca cameo! Love!


ushikagawa

Exactly, Eureka should’ve won!


DebbyNYC

Trinity K. Bonet is not getting her due! The judges and the producers need to recognize!!


MaradoMarado

I thought her or Eureka could have won this challenge tbh. Ginger did well and killed the lipsync but overall Team Sex did better and one of them should have won.


cinnamonsquishy

Ru was... really weird this episode? He flat out told Scarlet she made him uncomfortable, and then basically laughed at Jan when she got really upset. Idk, came across as weirdly manufactured and unfeeling to me


Falris

it honestly felt like they sped the emotional moment after Jan's critiques, it was really weird. maybe it was the editing? but it definitely felt like they didn't really care lmao


mochrimek

Ru isn't really a nice person, the whole schtick of "everyone say love" is manufactured to hell and back. Just listen to/watch Pearl reacting to Ru and Michelle discussing how Ru wants to "destroy" the queens, Pearl's face just explains everything.