T O P

Player attitude is part of the problem

Player attitude is part of the problem

TheOutsideWindow

I'm a pretty new player, still figuring stuff out and got my first T6 yesterday thanks to the Risa event, and I can't say I agree with you. Everyone I have met has been incredibly friendly. People answer my questions, invite me to join if I ask, and no shit talking when TFO's aren't going well (mind you, I'm only playing on normal at the moment). The community, compared to other games, is actually really great. Perhaps the role playing side of things is disappointing to you, but that's what I'd expect from the amount of freedom people have with their characters. However, the game itself is not friendly. The UI is a cluttered mess, and systems such as duty officer assignments, admiralty, and reputation are unintuitive, and don't feel impactful. I had to turn visual scrolling damage off. The game is beautiful once you turn down the information overload that's onscreen during a fight. Items have things such as "+12 turn rate" which means absolutely nothing to a player who doesn't know how that factors into calculating your turn rate. This is everywhere. Research materials and crafting? I have no idea what that's all about. I've just been collecting and holding onto research materials until I finally find a use for it. And the last thing I'll touch on, even though there are so many things I could mention, are lockboxes. As a new player, I don't understand lockboxes at all, and they are so awkwardly plugged into the game. I find the implementation of lockboxes in this game to be insulting to a new player. They are inadvertently thrown into your inventory and pushed as some normal thing to open, when they are actually something you should rarely open. There are a lot of things wrong with STO, but I disagree with your idea that it's the community's fault. I enjoy playing with a free to play account, but I won't put money into it because the corporate level folk have obviously written STO off as a dying game, and it's dying because the various systems and mechanics are outdated and poorly fleshed out. That's not on the community.


StandardizedGoat

All of this. STO itself is really really bad at explaining things and the tutorials do nothing to teach you much beyond the bare bone basics. They don't give you any remote idea of how to begin a functional build or provide any gear that could start one either which is pretty shameful. The tooltips as you said are also meaningless to a player who hasn't spent a while looking things up and it takes outside of game sources to understand the game which is silly. Though I will disagree that STO is dying, dying would mean plummeting player numbers. It's more stagnant, and not moving forward, but due to the same reasons you named. Corporate isn't helping because it still generates money, and most of the mechanics and systems are rusty to outright forgotten or simply never went anywhere beyond being a novelty in a mission or two and otherwise never revisited or refined or expanded on. STO has a bad tendency to add "new" things then just forget they exist and leave them there as first introduced.


Massak_

You're right, there are a lot of things in the game and it must be confusing for beginners, but it's nothing easier than playing an instructional video from a youtuber.


Tubamaphone

I agree that the majority of STO players on the Reddit channel are amazing. Some of the people in zone are very toxic though. Also if you need help in game my handle is the same as my user name. I love to help newer players out. Hit me up in game :)


TheOutsideWindow

I appreciate that, and will keep your offer in mind.


Jotaro_Lincoln

Same goes for me. I’ll help however I can, be it Dreadnought, space wizard, carrier, or squad mate. Game name is Same as my username, and number 3402


flyinggremlin83

I've played this game for seven years. And yeah, the first thing I did was turn off zone chat after I saw some players, among other things, calling for the genocide of racial groups. Never have turned it back on because of this.


revtoiletduck

I agree with pretty much all of this. As a newish and basically f2p player, my biggest problem with this game is my inventory. It is constantly cluttered with junk and I have no idea what's useful and what isn't.


thisvideoiswrong

Regarding figuring out which things are junk, first look at what type of item it is, and see if that fits into your build. If your damage source is beam weapons you don't want a Dual Heavy Cannon and you don't want a console that boosts drains or exotic damage or torpedoes. If your damage source is exotic damage then you don't want a console that's going to fill one of your critical science console slots that you can get Exotic Particle Generators skill from but only offers you extra shield healing. Anything that isn't relevant to your build should be sold. Then, if you're still leveling, look at Mk, if you can use Mk VII and Mk VIII stuff, Mk IV stuff is going to be far inferior. Some things can upgrade in Mk for free, so you can right click on it and check that on Rare (blue) and Very Rare (purple) quality stuff. Then you want to look for special things, things that are part of sets for example, look for "Part of set" near the end of the tooltip, others are harder to identify, Fek'ihri Torment Engine for sci builds is very good, the Chroniton Split Beam Rifle is pretty good, Seven's Dual Tetryon Rifles are ok, the Polaric Modulator is useful for Tour the Galaxy, the Trellium-D plating is rather good for survivability, and the various Beacons and things that call in allies are very helpful. Then you have to go beyond that to pick out exactly which sets and such are relevant, for that look up guides and budget builds if you can.


Massak_

It is easy, everything is vendor trash with one exception purple tactical consoles what you need for your build. What would you like to have a build? (dps / tank / support, energy / torpedo / exotic/ something else?) Maybe I could advise you. F.e. I would start with a ship that I like and according to it I would do a build, probably the easiest is the start with energy weapons of one type and one torpedo. 😉 Basically only items worth to upgrade are from the reputations or rewards from the episode missions and events, so do a reputations and episodes and for the engame, look on an items on the exchange and fleet items. Good video for budget build : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TDDEom-Jfo


Menien

I have been playing STO on and (mostly) off for ten years now, and I have no idea how the crafting system works.


_lwky

Beyond a few items, there is not much useful you can craft. Most gear can be outdone by set bonuses, etc. That being said, there are a few specific items that are craft only, one of the torpedos I think is as such. If you want a cheap way to gear up new toons you can craft gear and upgrades for them; gives an excuse to use all of the r&d materials. The amount of effort though - it is easier to just spend some EC on the market usually for starter gear. You can also craft items to sell on the market to generate EC. This is too grindy for my play style, but can be worth it if you are trying to build up EC. All of this is assuming your r&d levels are maxed out and you have decent doffs to maximize success.


UristTheDwarf

> If you want a cheap way to gear up new toons you can craft gear and upgrades for them; gives an excuse to use all of the r&d materials. You can't use up all the R&D materials. To even make a dent in how many materials we have, there'd have to be some kind of minigun that uses them as ammo, launching them at our enemies at several thousand rounds a minute. Even then, I'd get several hours worth of continuous firing out of my stock. And you know they'd only let us equip one.


_lwky

I am glad they made the r&d stacks bigger a few years ago. But yes, like you said...you can never use all of it or even make a dent. The r&d system "works" but it is not balanced with the rest of the game mechanics and resources at all. It would be nice to have a real use for the materials considering how much of those resources the game makes you aquire.


thisvideoiswrong

Going through your questions in order, mobility stats are *really* obscure. [This post](https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/nynids/agility_mechanics_2_flight_speed/) figured out most of it, but they had to work with matrices to get to it because the equations are such a mess. There is a spreadsheet calculator that came out of it if you want to play with that. Really, get one point in Impulse Expertise, that does help, have an engine, and then you want Emergency Power to Engines 1 (this will more than double your straight line speed, as well as providing a small boost to turn, unfortunately it does mean you can only use one other Emergency Power to X (EPtX) because of the shared cooldowns), the Emergency Conn Hologram from the Phoenix store (this resets the cooldown of Evasive Maneuvers whenever you activate the EPtE you just put on), and maybe get the Competitive reputation engines (the Overcharge effect on them is almost a 5 second Evasive Maneuvers every time you activate it, and you can arrange to activate it quite a bit, just make sure you pick one that will activate when you want it). You could throw in the consumable Deuterium Surplus, that's a bit weaker than the other temporary boosts but still quite good, and you get 4 of them each time you run through the very quick Alhena system daily (getting to this is a little messy, first get to level 65, then pick up Spectres from the Available tab, then Skirmish from the Available tab, and then you can go to Alhena). For R&D, the biggest thing you want is honestly the traits, every school you get to level 15 gives you a unique trait, and several of those are quite good. Exotic damage builds (science ships) have to have the Science R&D trait Particle Manipulator, it gives them a gigantic boost to crit chance and crit damage, beam weapon builds might want the Beams R&D trait Beam Barrage, it's a decent little boost to damage, torpedo focused builds (an advanced thing to attempt) will likely want the Projectile R&D trait Kinetic Precision, it's a little more help with dealing with shields and they need all the help they can get (although there are better sources), most ground builds will benefit from Technophile from Kits and Modules, and any space build can get a survivability boost from Give Your All from Engineering. To get to level 15, use the project at the bottom of the list for a given school, which rewards tons of XP for only one material. There are also special batteries you can craft from various schools at level 10, any energy weapon build will want the Beams one, exotic builds will want the Science one, torpedo builds will want the one from Projectiles (all of these are +20% Bonus X Damage), and ground builds might want the one from Kits and Modules, although that's a lot of expense to put into ground that's probably unnecessary. The other good use for R&D is to craft Mk II Very Rare versions of ordinary items, which you can then upgrade to Mk XV. Compared to getting a Mk XII, this gives you an extra roll for increased quality at every Mk from II to XII, and as a result is the cheapest way to get Epic quality gear. Of course, a lot of the time filling that slot with a reputation or fleet item at Mk XV Very Rare will provide better performance, you have to learn which of those are worth it and which aren't. And there are also special gear items that can be crafted at Mk XII, like Omni-Directional Beam Arrays, the Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo, and the Exotic Particle Field Exciter, but you may prefer to buy those from the Exchange and save your own dilithium (the very best modifier types on those sell for *much* more, so there's a continuous supply of more basic ones that are still quite good). Lockboxes, really just ignore lockboxes. Fortunately they have a ridiculous stack limit. Technically you can sell old ones on the exchange and make something from that, but mostly just don't let them take up much space, and they're almost certainly too expensive to open, certainly a very low priority for your zen or energy credits. Finally, I want to include [a link](https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/mp2jn1/weekly_questions_megathread_april_12_2021/gu7nti1/) to a pair of rather good, very cheap budget builds, one for cruisers and one for sci ships. You can't really do Escorts/Raptors or a torpedo build on a budget in the current meta, Raiders/Birds of Prey/Frigates and a few escorts that don't have too many tactical ability slots can be built a lot like the cruiser builds, while Scout Ships can be built like sci ships. And there's a bit on ground and a few other things in the sci ship build as well. If you need some tips on adapting the cruiser build to your new T6 ship let me know, it's straightforward.


Daionor

He said that obviously it's not the whole problem, but it was a considerable part of the problem. And there are plenty of stories from other players in the comments to back it up. Just because you got good people to play with doesn't mean everyone was that lucky. Heck in my own comment I specifically stated why I quit was due to the veterans being toxic trash bags to me just because I didn't know some mechanics and asked for advice or help, and instead just got cussed out for being a "noob" and such. It may not be the entire problem, like you seem to think the guy was saying (but the guy wasn't saying at all), but it's still a large part of the problem and why incoming new players have stagnated to the point the devs have been able to have written it off.


nolgroth

**Character Bios**: STO isn't really a Star Trek game. It has a lot of the trade dress, but it doesn't really deal with complex social issues, outside of a few episodes, in the same way Star Trek television shows/movies did. It is all about the DPS and Kill Count. Just look at most Endeavors. You either get a Defeat, Destroy or Kill on at least one per day. Even without that explicit terminology, it is Play X TFO, none of which don't have you killing a horde of enemies to accomplish the goal. It's like having a cardboard cutout of Captain Kirk that Jeffrey Dahmer puts his head in. Your character isn't. You behave exactly as the script demands, even if it is something that you imagine your character never doing. The only method of player/character agency is building up your ship and away team to your specifications. You then engage repetitively with content in the form of killing vast hordes of enemies. Every once in a while you get a story episode released and sometimes, they are even universally acclaimed as being good missions. Otherwise, you engage that content with the sole intention of getting the goodies. Now the real kicker comes in the form of the recent Klingon arc and some of the older Klingon content. Tell me that's not pure fantasy. You have journeys to the Underworld, magic swords, demonic warpigs, resurrection and probably a few bits that I am missing. That hardly feels like Star Trek to me. I like some of it (namely Grethor) but it is definitely not Star Trek. With all of that, I am 0% surprised that instead of engaging the game content faithfully, as Star Trek characters, people come up with different backgrounds and realities. In many ways, the devs set a precedent that this is clearly not reflective of the Star Trek teleplays we grew up with. **Fleets:** ...are basically obsolete, used only for the function of having access to better gear and unlocking abilities. Even then, the Fleet-quality ship variants, Trait unlocks and a few other items are really all that they are good for. This isn't new. The Fleet I am in has had two "events" in my memory. One was a Colony Invasion where only like 1/3 of the online Fleet Members showed up for and the other was an informal Colony resource grind. For years before those events and for a couple of years past those, nothing. (Note: I am okay with that.) Again, I am not surprised because STO has always been about individual effort. Fleets are nothing but an afterthought. Some Fleets may have a very proactive, selective membership that works in concert to get things done. If two people do something together in my Fleet, it's because my friend and I team up for some content and we both belong to the same Fleet. I imagine most Fleets are like that. **In Response to Your Edit**: I am a solo player. I curate all of my own content and don't engage in things that turn the game from fun to a chore or pain. If you ever read one of my bios, you wouldn't even see a story. I use that section as a place to take notes about something (usually Build info/concepts) I want to remember later. Being solo, I have a very detailed backstory for most of my characters, but I don't feel obligated to share them. It could be that I don't consider myself a competent author. I am in the GMT -7/-8 (depending on Daylight Savings Time) time zone. I am sorry that you feel alone amongst a vast population of your fellows. That is not a pleasant feeling. I, unfortunately, have no advice on how you can make your own experiences better. Best of luck in getting there though.


nasedolyne

Holy crap, build notes, brainstorms, and general note taking on your bio is a crazy-good idea.


balloon99

Players don't create content. Well, they used to, but Cryptic took that away. Removing that avenue of player engagement was a huge loss to the game. The sad fact that Cryptic can't or won't allocate the resources needed for a replacement speaks volumes about their priorities. If it doesn't make quick cash, to the back burner with it. If Cryptic stop treating me like a mere wallet then I'd be a lot happier. While they continue to merely see players as sources of income, don't be surprised when players respond to that.


ramenamen23

The Foundry was the *only* source of new stories that actually felt like Star Trek for a very long time, and while I certainly don't represent all or even most players, I started playing STO because I wanted to fly a Starfleet ship and experience new Trek-like stories. The current state of the game feels like a generic MMO with some Trek branding slapped on, and frankly I just don't really care for MMOs.


n8pu

The OP was talking about 'Devs", I wonder just how many they have left, I heard a rumor (and we all know how good they are, especially on the interweb, that they only have one left. To me that isn't to much of a stretch seeing how long it takes them to attempt to fix something. Totally agree about the wallet comment, it going on two years since I gave them any $$. I also think I'm one of those players "jaded by years of repetitive content" . I bought a life membership back in 2013, to me anyway the game wasn't so boring back then, but now with back to back to back events and sales, I'm not a cash cow.


TurbulentTruffle

I was still spending hard into the end of 2020, so not quite as jaded as you. But once affordable (in terms of $ or effort/fun) meta traits for alts evaporated with introduction of cross-faction flying I find absolutely NO reason to repeat the same old same old the same old way. Doubly so with inflation having rendered in-game rewards meaningless. It's great that whales have been induced to spend more to try different play styles on alts -- but that means \*I\* have nothing new to do. Sitting on a big pile of leftover zen (I used to pre-allocate for future spend during charge bonuses) augmented by blowing out tens of millions of dil. Should last me until the servers shut down. Also, the single full-time coder was something Kael posted on reddit. Feel free to trust that or not.


n8pu

I read where someone 'read' where Kael 'let it slip', I didn't see it myself that's why I said 'rumor'. You make two people that, said he said it, so that is confirmation to me. 👍 Right now the major grip for me is the broken support for the game pads, specifically for me the Logitech F310, For ground stuff I could do about 85 - 90% without needing to use the keyboard or mouse. If they would restore that, well I haven't had all the problems that others have reported. The only Zen I have is the 500 (monthly) stipend for being a lifer, I usually let it sit until it adds up so >if< I want to get something I can, I don't feel like it is directly coming out of my pocket.


TheSajuukKhar

>The sad fact that Cryptic can't or won't allocate the resources needed for a replacement speaks volumes about their priorities. If it doesn't make quick cash, to the back burner with it. The bigger issue is that the vast majority of the playerbase never used the Foundry, and those that did typically only used it for kill/loot grinding missions rather then what itwas meant for. Why WOULD any dev spend resources on something most people don't want, and aren't going to use properly anyways?


TurbulentTruffle

"Properly" is the key word. If it's not fun reflected in the correct metrics, proscribed by marketing, run by a revenue consultant and blessed by a focus group then it just shouldn't be. Great for maximizing revenue per player, but not so great for maximizing players or fun. So here we are now, with Cryptic ever more desperately trying to bigly monetize the remaining whales, with a desert of fun for everyone else. I think CounterYolo is dead on with his analysis of why we're seeing ever more egregious microtransactions ($600 e.g.). I'll spoil it: it's not because of a healthy, vibrant, growing player base. I can't speak for everyone else, but I enjoyed foundry content. I can still grind the living crap out of loot in 9th rule or any other endlessly respawning slaughterfest. In fact, with the constant $ for power creep I can slaughter for loot far more efficiently now than ever. I don't think that "improper use" is pertinent at all. Any break from the endless grind of the same tiny drip of content is better than not.


TheSajuukKhar

>"Properly" is the key word. If it's not fun reflected in the correct metrics, proscribed by marketing, run by a revenue consultant and blessed by a focus group then it just shouldn't be. Great for maximizing revenue per player, but not so great for maximizing players or fun. Or, you know, the system was designed for a specific purpose. That being making Star trek style story missions, and people either flatly rejected using it at all, or simply used it to farm loot/enemy kills faster. And no dev would put money into a system where it clear no one wants to use it for what it was designed for. >I'll spoil it: it's not because of a healthy, vibrant, growing player base. Ironic given that, from everything we know, the DSC content has brought in more new players then even ViL did... which itself was breaking records in that regard. Your comment about "egregious" microtransactions is also entirely baseless. A typical lockbox ship costs anywhere from $200, to $250, worth of keys to pull on average. On the other hand, a full priced single ship on Mudd's is like 170. But full price isn't the "real" price they expect you to pay. The "real" price is like the 50-70% off price. Which makes it even cheaper compared to the original method of obtaining them. Even using the most recent Kelvin Mudd bundle. The 7 ships in it would normally cost anywhere from 1,400 to 1,750 dollars to pull from lockboxes. And those would be single character unlocks that, if discarded, have to be pulled again to acquire. On the other hand the bigger Kelvan bundle is 600 bucks at full price, a 58 to 66% price reduction of their normal cost from getting them from lockboxes/R&D. At any sort if discount this price cut goes up even more. And they are account unlocks to boot. You are literally saying that Cryptic giving away ships at 50%+ off the price they were selling them for before is a sign of them trying to milk whales, and because of a poor playerbase... when thats the exact opposite sign of trying to milk whales/having a poor playerbase. Its, if anything, a sign of a healthy playerbase if they don't have to rely on price gouging via lockboxes, and are making so much they can take half the income on them and it not affect them. But paranoid, conspiracy theorist, doomers, will be paranoid, conspiracy theorist, doomers I suppose.


TurbulentTruffle

You know what GOOD game developers call not using systems for their designed/specific purpose? Emergent gameplay. A good developer would analyze WHY people are engaging with the system the way they do, and adapt that to increase engagement with the game. A bad one would mete out punishments until players complied, or remove the feature(s), reducing engagement. I'm glad STD brought in the hordes, but they're not participating in fleets (lots of anecdotes of fleets dying, more than ever), hanging out in social zones, queuing for TFOs... The game feels emptier than it ever did, in spite of having more players. They're definitely not spending zen to buy dil as players in the past have. As far as price -- we just had this argument in another thread. You were steadfast in maintaining MSRP is the only value metric pertinent. Me, I doubt whales are spewing $1500+ to get those particular ships six years after release. If they didn't buy them 6, 5, 4, or more years ago, why would they suddenly spew all that cash? Why would Cryptic make the reversing toilet bowl if ancient, obsolete content brought in the big bucks? Answer: the price Cryptic sets may be high, but very few belly up to pay it. Fewer then ever. They can try and gouge all they want, but they're running out of gamblers and so HAVE to sell to smaller whales. The sales and discounts have gone into overdrive ever since full refund for Legends. You are welcome to "this is fine" all you like. The inputs to my analysis disagree with your conclusions.


TheSajuukKhar

>You know what GOOD game developers call not using systems for their designed/specific purpose? Emergent gameplay. Emergent gameplay isn't "gameplay where people are using poorly made systems to exploit the game" There is a reason why Crpyitc had to repeatedly nerf Foundry rewards. Your comments here are just trying to hand wave, and sidestep, the actual issues with the foundry. >I'm glad STD brought in the hordes, but they're not participating in fleets (lots of anecdotes of fleets dying, more than ever), hanging out in social zones, queuing for TFOs... The game feels emptier than it ever did, in spite of having more players. They're definitely not spending zen to buy dil as players in the past have. Well this is also incorrect. Cryptic has mentioned several times that TFO participation, especially in events, is only going up. And, at least from my personal experience getting into RTFOs is always fast and easy. Its faster now then ti was back in ViL. Same thing with social zones. I see a lot more people in ESD in the last year or so then I did back during or before ViL. Anecdotal, but its all I can go on. >Me, I doubt whales are spewing $1500+ to get those particular ships six years after release If they weren't Cryptic would keep making these packs. This is the same argument people tried to make for the starter bundles "NO ONE IS BUYING THESE!" and yet, according to Cryptic, they keep making them because they keep selling. >why would they suddenly spew all that cash Because the ships are now account wide, and just cheaper in general. Not only massive reducing the price to get them on one character, but MASSIVELY reducing the price to get them on multiple characters. You are asking why people would spend money when given a cheaper options thats objectively better.... because who wouldn't? >Why would Cryptic make the reversing toilet bowl if ancient, obsolete content brought in the big bucks? This is like asking why would Cryptic make a T6 Oberth if the currently existing ships brought in the dollars. Because, just because the current ships do doesn't mean you aren't going to keep making every single ship you can so as many people as possible can play the ship they want. You are seriously trying to make a conspiracy out of STO's whole premise at this point.


TurbulentTruffle

Nerfing rewards is valid. Removing systems players enjoy a bit less so. One is the lazy (or no resources) way out, and that's the route that was chosen. Nothing more, nothing less. Kael himself posted there was \*ONE\* full time developer on STO. To claim that a thriving, vibrant game with a healthy and growing population can be not only maintained by expanded by \*ONE\* full time coder is insane. There are highly successful idle clicker games with more dedicated resources. I understand Cryptic keeps saying this is the best state of the game ever and players love it. Yet before they removed the queued player counts from TFOs the declining players queued supported what I'm seeing. I'm definitely waiting longer and longer to get into CCA and NTTE. I know I'm not alone in this observation, a fleetie was sad about the lack of people organizing ground tours. Sure, RTFOs still pop. They better: if 4 people server wide can't be bothered to click that at any one moment we got REAL problems. The only data I can present is the population of battlezones, and number of instances there. Voth ground: 2 instances, 28 players Undine space: 2 instances, 25 players Badlands: 2 instances, 14 players. This is on a Sunday afternoon in the U.S., fairly peak time for population. I don't think I've ever seen them this empty since I started playing in 2013 or so. I'll start keeping track rigorously, let's see what pans out. The latest starter bundle was made in 2018 or so, the Gamma starter. The rest are of a much more stale vintage. Hardly "keep making" pace there. You have the last word in this thread, as usual. Me, I'm looking at the EP of this game, whose resume consists entirely of dead, closed down mobile games. I'm sure that's the kind of experience PWI was looking for with an eye toward keeping STO growing and healthy.


darrickeng

Just came back to this game after a 10 year, yes 10-year hiatus. The DPM builds are insane now and more or less makes TFO not fun anymore because your unicum DPS builds just wrecks NPCs in seconds. I still remember Conduit and Crystalline being "difficult" TFOs but I have played about a dozen matches of them in which the game ends in 5 minutes. The single-player content are still decent though and I'm enjoying replaying the entire campaign again.


e1k3

In my opinion a lot of the issues you describe are caused by the fact that there is no real endgame. Players are not rewarded for interacting in a meaningful way, and instead fill the void that they inevitably feel with the latest releases, cosmetics and pointless damage chasing. Other MMOs have endgame content that requires concerted efforts to beat, with relevant roles besides dps machines. They also reward the highest power levels to the players able to build a well coordinated group instead of everyone willing to spend cash. Amending this glaring issue that admittedly would require the developers to spend quite a bit of resources would fix a) that everyone mindlessly collects the latest power crept releases because they would not be desirable for all of the more differentiated roles, b) make fleets more relevant again in their function of forming communities, c) would push back things like cosmetics and dps chasing to the side where they belong as mere fluff and d) potentially even restore roleplay appeal, since there is only so much fun you can derive from pretending to do something compared to actually doing things of relevance. Actual chat moderation for their one single server should also help a lot in curbing undesirable stuff like the omnipresent U.S. politics. The playerbase is largely molded by the world they play in, and if there is very little to do people inevitably try to fill the gap with whatever they can grasp, be it collecting cosmetics, lockbox ships or just off topic chatter.


magic-moose

Cryptic has limited resources, and they devote those resources entirely to things that obviously generate revenue (e.g. Lockbox ships). Moderating zone chat and dealing with inappropriate material in player profiles doesn't generate revenue, so they don't do it. (If the worst you've encountered is immortal vampire fairy princesses, count yourself lucky! There are some seriously disturbed people playing STO, and trolls.) The end result is a gaming experience that, too frequently, feels rather scummy. One of the first things I did when I started playing STO was to turn off zone chat. In the years since, I've never turned it back on for long. I suspect Cryptic loses a lot of players (and money) because of this, but it's a hard thing to quantify. If the first player profile I'd read when starting the game had been one of the more twisted ones I've read since, I might well have noped out of the game immediately, and I certainly wouldn't have lasted if I hadn't disabled zone chat. While it's players who troll zone chat and write F'd up profiles, it's Cryptic's choice to do no moderation. STO is analogous to a bar that is swarming with prostitutes and drug dealers, but whose staff do nothing about it. It's their choice to run an "anything goes" establishment, but the result is that some people are just going to stay away. You might not realize how things are in STO unless you jump into another MMO, like FFXIV, that actually does a good job at keeping things under control. FFXIV is not without its trolls and other issues, but the overall tone of the community is like night and day when compared with STO.


Kelthe

Welcome to the future, where everything is like this. It's not just STO.


Uselessmedics

I gotta disagree personally, in my experience zone has always been pretty friendly, whenever someone asks a question someone will answer it, and aside from that it's mostly just people talking and having fun. DPS chasing is only a thingif you buy into it, if you completely ignore it and make your ship how you like nothing bad happens, the game is perfectly playable without an optomised ship and nobody seems to get pissy. Based on your talk about peoples' bios, and zone chat "not being about trek" I get the feeling that your problem is that everyone else isn't a militant lore follower, and really, that's always going to be the case in any game, lots of people only know a little lore, or none at all and are there for the gameplay (i've personally never watched star trek) so chat isn't going to be people constantly RPing. If that's what you want, find the groups for it and hang out with them, but you can't expect everybody to constantly rp. Also dumb edgy bios are always going to be a thing, the majority of people who write bios are going to be the same kind of people who write edgy sonic fan fics


Deathlands_Mutie

>The few character biographies I still see - yes, I am a role-player I'm also a role player and have added bios to some of my toons but I admit not all of them although in my defense I play on console and have to use my controller to type those bios which is a time consuming pain in the rear, I do agree with the zone chat though especially Risa and I don't really bother with it.


ChaosDreadnought

Currently got a bunch of gamma recruit JHs who are part of a hazmat unit trying to quarantine a unknown virus/disease (havent decided yet) also trying to get the competitive ground set as its the closet thing I can get to a hazmat set just gotta also get past the gamma story missions and the 20hr cooldown for them so I can get the extra marks etc and have to flush out their Bios. I also have a bunch of other toons with bios such as Dark elf, Commander Shepard, isaac clarke, and quite abit of others its just flushing out the bios is the hardest part as I run out of ideas at times


endMinorityRule

I have a different perspective on some of the things you mention as negatives. I'm glad that socialization is not a forced focus. I like being able to join a random tfo and start playing the game quickly, rather than looking for a group or chatting up fleetmates. I haven't encountered people who want to take advantage of newer players, although the exchange prices are so heavily inflated (versus just a year or two ago) that it obviously hurts newer accounts. And I typically prefer smaller fleets. I agree about the nonsense political troll chat in ESD. Its like some people have no place to talk politics other than the game they "play"? or maybe its intentional trolling, pushing dumb narratives to propagandize people that don't pay much attention to politics. I don't know. Its a long term problem, but a problem that exists in every MMO as far as I know (I don't play every mmo).


Random-Red-Shirt

I'd just like it if the game were stable. There is a significant percentage of players who, since House United dropped, have been getting multiple, daily crashes-to-desktop and the devs have done NOTHING to rectify that. All the support "game masters" say is that "the devs are aware and please be patient". It's been SIX MONTHS and they're still saying to "be patient"? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?


refugeeinaudacity

I strongly disagree with you about fleets. They aren't as great as they used to be due to the lack of new fleet holdings preventing a common goal (most large, active fleets have the T5 Colony by now), but that's on cryptic. But it's completely wrong to say the only fleets are RP or DPS focused. It's a bit hypocritical to complain about a hostile playerbase while at the same time complaining about players who don't have an lore friendly bio.


lotusmaglite

>It's a bit hypocritical to complain about a hostile playerbase while at the same time complaining about players who don't have an lore friendly bio. This. Toxic gamers aren't just the 13 year-olds yelling epithets at each other in chat. They're also the ones who loudly and very constantly complain that other people aren't playing the game "right." Goddess Eris help a game when those people become the primary revenue stream. It's like roleplaying with a control-freak GM.


n8pu

I take it the 'lore' is what you put in you toons bio. I haven't put so much as a "." (period) an any of my toons. For me to put something in the bio of each toon, is a waste of time and energy for me, I'm not a role player. This game for me is to have somewhere to spend some part of my day, nothing more.


TurbulentTruffle

You get what you give is my feeling. A neglected game riddled with game-breaking bugs, often unplayable because of Akamai-induced lag. Vast swaths of content becoming incoherent due to so much content having been removed for improvement then forgotten, constant FOMO leaving new players far behind because they've missed too many events, blog posts and news announcements with hilariously misspelled or outright wrong information to really drive the contempt for players home... Those responsible for running the game don't want it to be "alive." They want big spenders to spend big in the casino. Everyone else can just go pound mud -- and that's why it doesn't seem like home. Yeah, I've become toxic. But IMO for many good reasons.


EarlyTemperature8077

Especially hard for lifetime subscribers, I take it?


Syovere

As a particularly jaded lifetime subscriber, yeah. I'm hoping that with their misbegotten Magic game being cancelled they get some more devs back onto STO to actually fix shit. What I'm *expecting* is, of course, entirely different.


sloane31

I wouldn’t count on it. Think they basically laid everyone off (or as many as they could) so doubt there will be a resource diverted to boost STO.


ACrispyPieceOfBacon

I've lost track on how many years it has been since Cryptic removed a chunk of the game to "improve" it with modern STO. They should have just thrown more stuff into the Available tab, honestly.


n8pu

They lost this cash cow about two years ago, they haven't gotten any $$ from me since. I wouldn't describe myself as toxic but I would describe myself as jaded/bored. I feels like 95% or more of 'new content' has a couple of words of dialog changed and a fresh coat of paint hoping us players that have been around for years won't notice.


YoritomoII

I think that the core problem is lots of players hanging on who should stop playing. I’m not sure if I include myself in this as I’ve left several times and come back. But, when I’ve come back the game is still fun and playable but my fleets are dead, and I lack the enthusiasm I had to make new friends, so the only commentary I see is here or in zone chat. I don’t have a problem with their business model, it is industry wide and is likely the model that generates the most revenue. I also don’t have an issue with ongoing events, sometimes I love them and sometimes I just don’t play them. Same with endeavours, admiralty etc, I don’t suffer FOMO. But it’s clear others do. Or they have sunk cost problems or they’re trying to rediscover the magic that they enjoyed in those first few years when the game was definitely worse, not realising that that magic has just dissipated because of diminishing marginal returns. So yeah, I guess the game would just be better if a lot of people stopped playing. They’d be happier and the general mood in the game would improve. If the game had a mandatory subscription maybe that would be better. People weirdly value $12/month more than their time and mental health.


TurbulentTruffle

I took breaks in the past, and that's why I now suffer from FOMO. Those breaks made me miss the tommygun (no way to get that except for big $ on a \*single\* character now), Very Cold in space (3 \*years\* of daily dil refinement for a single character to win on that character) and D.O.M.I.N.O. (another 3 years of daily grind to win). Not being present during the initial FOMO period means getting that shiny, if you want to play with it later, is going to be orders of magnitude more expensive if not completely out of reach. When I'm in the mood to play and not burned out by constant grinding there's still quite a lot of fun to be had. My fleet still shows signs of life, and artificial limits I place on some of my alts (no gacha items or upgraded or ships seen in shows only, e.g.) still yield occasional entertainment. Having stopped whaling cold turkey was a big help too. But then there's the fairly recent issue of traits constantly scrambling or resetting. Makes playing more than a couple of characters with a handful of ships a bigger pain than the fun is worth.


endMinorityRule

I have more than 20 captains. I haven't seen much of the trait bug you refer to. Of course, I don't often switch ships. Or even change loadouts very often. But many people have said its a problem, so I believe it. "Grinding" has a different meaning to people now than it did to the everquest player base. up to 15 minutes/day is not remotely grinding, to me. I also missed out on some good items due to taking breaks from the game (domino, cold-hearted, the tommygun), but I don't view any of those as required. I like leck's knives (as an alternative to the tommygun, which I have on one captain). Domino I use on phaser builds sometimes and PvP builds. Cold hearted I have on a few captains. But then I also have half a dozen epic phoenix tokens to redeem if I feel the need for cold hearted or domino.


Puzzleheaded_Gold379

I didnt have access to half my ship traits for like a month. Then suddenly they came back lol.


YoritomoII

I also missed out on those things. But I don’t need any of them. In fact I’ll go further and say that if I had those on every character it would be very cookie cutter. The game never had any real challenge so getting the BIS stuff is purely a power gamer thing. Games are supposed to be fun, and there’s responsibilities on the players around that too. They shouldn’t do things that make the game less fun for others and if they’re not having fun they have responsibilities to themselves to find better things to do with their lives.


TurbulentTruffle

Oh, I don't \*need\* them either. With over 500 endeavor perks under my belt I can obliterate enemy armadas in a T1 Oberth, with nothing but my bare fists required for ground genocide. But I want them. They are precious in part because I can't have them.


Puzzleheaded_Gold379

You see I actually have a problem with the games complete lack of balance. Its just a DPS challenge. I wish theyd spend half a year releasing nothing and just working on tying up loose ends and simplifying some of the spaghetti code and getting the game to be slightly more balanced and challenging. There are no roles in this games "raiding". Everyone just do as much DPS as possible. Its hardly even an MMO at that point.


TurbulentTruffle

I'm in complete agreement, actually. I'd like more depth. I'd like crafting, an economy, balance, PvP, chill things to do like player housing and a purpose for bridges that brings us more bridges. Heck, I'd even like "raiding" -- what we have now is players making their own content via third party tools to measure their performance, not actual raiding to earn meaningful rewards in game. But with just one full time coder on this game I can guess it's not a priority for Perfect World. We ain't getting any of that, so it's up to us to do the best with what we have. Until the end.


Belka-Chan018

I grew to despise the current direction of STO after the last few updates. Having been an almost daily player for four years. This is why I’ve all but stopped playing, just nothing to come back to when I’m replaying old content all the time. I kinda wish a lot of the more negative players would take a few months away. Constantly beating a dead horse doesn’t do anything but make a negative opinion more so.


endMinorityRule

I have a lot of hours in this game, but I still enjoy even the game. Even the TFO's where nobody seems to know what to do. I get to find out how much a single player can influence the outcome.


defiant224

For all intents and purposes, STO has been a solo game for me for years. There is very little actual MMO element here outside of TFOs. I don't even look at chat. I do what I want to do and when I've had enough, I log out.


audigex

> The few character biographies I still see - yes, I am a role-player - rarely have anything to do with the actual Star Trek property Because there's little incentive to actually do any of this. There are no storyline choices to make, there's nothing you can do differently to make your characters stats evolve in a different way etc. There's very little RPG'ing to actually do other than click your way through dialogue and change your character bio and appearance What we have is a very linear storyline, and very limited customisation... where's the RPG there? The only role-playing is that we're a Starfleet captain. Or rather, Admiral. After being put in charge of the ship about 30 seconds into our gameplay experience and promoted to Admiral within about a week There's nothing RPG about it, really


mckeeganator

I joined 2 weeks maybe 3 weeks ago and have been playing the story non stop, it’s a lot of fun playing with these ships and running around the galaxy in the story, I’ll only every really do the story so my “builds” are more or less just me running with what I’ll keep me alive but also what that factions ship would use. I’m on console and so far the community has been mostly quiet, no open aggression just players doing missions. Tho im gonna be honest i definitely want more lore on all the ships only thing i ever find is DPS builds online and why i shouldn’t be using the Cardassian intel dreadnaught even tho it’s my fave ship and it’s good for all sorry missions.


MrStalfos

Well i say use whatever the heck floats your boat. Any ship is viable for story and normal TFOs. Cant say much about elite though. But honestly play the game in a way that makes you happy. It's a time from your life spent playing and it should be an enjoyable experience.


agitatedandroid

Well, for starters, don't read zone. Zone is bad. Zone is bad in all games. I turned Zone off about an hour after I started playing. Local too. But, I'm in RedditChat all the time. And, yes, we do get up to some hijinks from time to time but by and large, it's a pretty nice chat. Questions get answered within minutes if not faster. No one tells you you're garbage because you don't have the right traits. In fact, if you say you want to do something we can all tell is monumentally a bad idea, someone will help you make it work. As for bios, sorry. I haven't got round to writing them all out. I will eventually. And, I promise they'll be in-world... OK, I wrote one. Just now.


jdmgto

>Well, for starters, don't read zone. Zone is bad. Zone is bad in all games. I turned Zone off about an hour after I started playing. There has never been a game I'm aware of where the Zone equivalent wasn't a neverending trainwreck.


StandardizedGoat

I'll be blunt: This sounds like general bitching about MMOs actually having other humans behind other screens in them that aren't part of "your tribe", and like you are paying an excessive amount of attention to other players with reading the bios or so on. I'll state now I'm a DPS chaser, have blank bios, and zero interest in roleplay, so we probably wouldn't get on too well, but I'll put it aside and give you some different perspectives that might be useful or insightful. Up to you to decide. On DPS and whatnot: You are basically complaining that people are wanting to be good at the game, and STO isn't so much unbalanced given that you can achieve good DPS and performance on a budget, as it is filled with lazy players who expect to reach the top without researching what things do or putting in basic effort. The game is unbalanced because your average player doesn't understand the game essentially and most are weirdly even unwilling to and just demand the game change to fit them without understanding how obtuse that is. Every MMO, hell, most games, will have a good build and a garbage build for stuff and most people here frankly just go with garbage then have a bad tendency to defend it because they can't let go of it that what they are doing just isn't good within how the game works, or get mad that they actually have to play, and maybe even grind if they don't want to pay money, to get better gear and need to put in some time, research, or socialization to figure things out. It personally makes me wonder about the complaints of STO being run by a mobile game man when I run in to a lot of people with mobile game levels of patience. The other problem is a lot seem to think that envisioning STO as a different type of game to what it is will somehow make it that. Playing this game like a space ship simulator such as SFC will make you outright hate it, but a lot of people insist on doing that...and then outright hate it and spend all day beating against the wall of the game being what it is. It's like complaining that apples aren't oranges. These people are also usually utterly learning resistant and act super hostile when someone tries to give them tips, and even when they reached out to the DPS crowd will usually first thing stuff their ego at the forefront followed by taking any criticism of their current build or understanding of the game as a personal attack making it purely impossible to teach them anything because they don't want to learn, they want to bitch and whine that they have to put in effort, or that STO isn't a totally different game. If you want to learn more there, just don't do that and act chilled, and you can even find a lot of advice on how the game works or how to improve builds here on reddit. This isn't an obstacle for a new player looking to really get in to STO so much as it is for impatient people who want a trek themed roller coaster instead of a game. If we want to discuss actual obstacles we could discuss how the tutorials teach you borderline nothing useful, how the game's math is anything but what it seems, and how the tooltips are all treknobabble instead of explaining what stuff is truly doing unless you researched the context in places not in game. (https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/wiki/math) (https://www.sto-league.com/cheap-dps-builds/) What I will give you is that the top extremes are hidden behind lockbox items and such, but again, you can earn everything in STO for free INCLUDING lockbox and Zen store ships if you really want to and are willing to sink the time in. Absolutely everything in STO is free if you are willing to sit down and figure out how to obtain it or listen to advice from people who know how. Going by how you wrote that segment you probably just don't understand how and are making that above superstitious mistake of assuming ignorance means impossible when it comes to the how free to play STO really is. Here I'll give you some advice too: If you see other players doing something, then YOU can too, and YOU are the only thing in your own way of obtaining that knowledge or skill. Basically all of the above could be figured out by someone new too who does a few quick google searches or talks to the guy they see destroying a TFO rapidly or discussing how they earn their currencies. All it takes typically is not backtalking and not putting your ego at the front of things when you approached those people for their help and even the most snobby player will generally offer up knowledge. Now, on Zone chat: Have you ever played another MMO? I spent 16 years in EVE Online, and play WoWS and a few other games and can tell you STO is fluffy kittens and puppies compared really. Asking for advice in Zone or the equivalent is absolutely terrible as an idea in general and best avoided in any game really, and while STO could definitely stand to have a moderated rookie chat or help chat of some sort, it should be pretty clear to anyone after even brief MMO experience that Zone is just useless and best avoided UNLESS you want to join in being a howler monkey or get some giggles out of the general mayhem. Also this complaint about Zone not being "nice" is twofold. The first problem is you seem to expect Zone to have a purpose when it specifically exists as a channel without a purpose. It's just for banter and burning time or throwing shit at others like an ape and not meant to be helpful or for advice or anything else. The second problem is that you find the people there distasteful, where this is simple: Don't interact with it then, go find people you can tolerate being around. Either that or lower your expectations and just take it for what it is. It's not on anyone to "fix" Zone because it's meeting the exact purpose it has as a general chat, and nothing is stopping you from seeking out like minded players or joining private channels. If you're looking for roleplayers in specific they usually are more on DS9. Fleets come in every flavor possible and yes the type you named exists, and they are scummy, but there is a shitload that by now expect zero contributions to buy from the stores and have no expectations at all. They might not go out of their way to be social with you unless you interact or ask, and you might not get the "full fleet" experience but you can always find a little cell of folk to hang out with. This comes across as you not trying or again being picky and focusing too much on one or two little things that aren't fitting. Don't just join random shit that throws recruitment around blindly because you risk running in to a meh experience but maybe use the fact that this is an MMO to make friends and figure out what their fleets are like and someone will rarely if ever run in to those issues. As for why you are personally struggling to connect with other players, again, I'll be absolutely blunt with you here: Frankly you sound like you're actively looking for reasons to complain about things, just default assuming the worst in other players, and being picky on top of that. Introspection is the only thing that will fix this. A lot of the rest is again that you expect the game to be filled with "your tribe", and for an MMO that is frankly unrealistic and would make it go from "MMO" to "gross hugbox with really low numbers due to insane levels of censorship and forced behavior". Just learn to pay attention to your own game, seek out the people you want to hang out with instead of expecting them to come to you, and remember those people with the silly bios or who do whatever else have as much right to play as you do. Nobody is making you interact with them either. As for the rest, as others said, Cryptic makes the content, that is what it is. You cannot put the faults of the company running the game at our feet or expect people who do not even get listened to to fix the game, and people will continue to pay in to the game because the complaints are not "game shit" but "game could be better". People enjoy what is there or else it would be dead and empty.


UristTheDwarf

> Asking for advice in Zone or the equivalent is absolutely terrible as an idea in general Asking for advice in public on the Internet generally doesn't work all that well. If you want to get actual good advice, what you need to do is vigorously assert whatever you're previously heard, something that is probably wrong. Somebody will definitely, in no uncertain terms, immediately stop what they are doing to correct you. Do not take offense at their tone. Merely listen. Some of them will probably also be wrong. This will, in turn, drive someone else to correct them. At this point, the system is in motion, and you don't need to say anything more, just listen. If you merely ask for advice, you rely on that first responder who will actually stop what he's doing merely to answer some rando's undirected question, rather than the umbrage of someone who wants to show off how he's better than you.


nina_blain

God I want to upvote this 100 times. so very well said


MarvynSTO

Almost all of your complaints can be directed back to the game itself, its design and content (or lack of). ​ **Troll chat / politics chat in /Zone** \- because there's an absence of things to do in-game, so people just hang out in social zones talking trash. **Lack of socialisation in fleets** \- again, because this is a game where you can do pretty much everything on your own, and when you need some other people, you just use a group finder. Very little in the way of fleet-only activities or goals. **Absurd focus on dps chasing and the like** \- again, because there's no other end-game content and nothing for players to do to improve their characters other than get slightly higher numbers in ISE. **Role playing (lack thereof)** \- Actual role playing has always been a minority interest in MMORPGs. But again, there are limited aspects for taking part in his activity, other than writing a nice bio or tarting up your ship and bridge officers in a particular style. ​ I'm not disagreeing that players can be toxic - they can be in every game. But I don't think they are particularly toxic in STO. ​ If you want to know the problem, you've answered it yourself here: ***"Players who are jaded by years of repetitive content."***


ADM_Tetanus

When it comes to fleets too, there are cases where there is socialisation etc, it's just not going to be found in game. Community discord servers, the main Reddit one and Thon's one both are better places to find decent, active fleets.


Attentive_Senpai

Speaking as someone who's been RPing on STO since launch, there was a time when public roleplay flourished, but the scaledown in instance sizes made it a lot harder for people to congregate together. Once people started retreating to private fleet starbases, public RP tanked. I think one of the big problems with RP these days is just a lack of good big-instance-capacity social spaces open to both factions. Really, most public RP of consequence just ends up gravitating to Quark's simply because it's well-known and universal, and not a summer vacation gimmick like Risa.


RiskyRain

I got you covered OP, my main KDF man has a bio written in klingon lol


AriaSpinner

I have a rather different experience. Ok there are some truths in what you say: 85% of players don't seem to bother with any RP profile at all. And at least half of the remaining are joke profiles. I haven't seen very much toxicity in chat. Oh it does exist BUT when it pops up it's usually deliberate, A troll just saying stuff to start arguments. There ARE predatory fleets but if you do a bit of research you can usually avoid them. And if your lucky you can use a predatory fleet to YOUR advantage before dumping them for greener pastures. Most people I have talked to in game are helpful to me or grateful for any help I give them. And if you're lucky you can meet great people.


commanderzoink

In a game where you can be a Starfleet captain, a Klingon warrior everyone's a ferengi. Sto is a clear reflection of the current human world as you can get.


UristTheDwarf

> everyone's a ferengi. Rule of Acquisition #284.


tupe12

I’m going through the Kobali arc on my delta recruit, and I was found it a little sad that working together with strangers in a none TFO mission was a rare experience in this game. And I say this as someone who prefers to be alone in MMO’s Also in my experience it’s almost always winter wonderland that has the political arguments, everywhere else it’s dead silence


Snoo_63389

Thank you. Yes to all of what you said. That is why I unfortunately stick to my circle of friends and my fleet. I don't even have any channel but my fleet active. When I forget to close a tab with local for example I hear the most terrible, ridiculous, and unsupportive things: foul language, politics, and all the stuff you mentioned above. This saddens me coming from City of Heroes where rarely did anyone have a bad time or have to deal with issues such as these. The community did their best to rally against it. And yes, the devs better figure their shit out. I NO LONGER spend any real money on this game when it became apparent that is all they care about anymore; so much for my purchased at pre-order Lifetime Membership. This game is starting to feel mandatory to play or you will miss something (overlapping with no breaks before the next must log on). I am growing tired. If not for my fleet and friends I would not bother anymore.


Zeropointeffect

I disagree. I haven’t found a friendlier game since the alpha days of Minecraft. There are always trolls in games if you think Star Trek online is bad I’d invite you to an old TF2 or COD lobby. I had to mute both because of the pure nastiness. When I started I had a player take me under his wing explain the game got me into an awesome fleet that has team TFO runs, colony invasions, and give aways. I was shocked there was zero tolerance for racism, homophobia, sexism or politics. We were all adults that cracked jokes and some were dirty but it never crossed the line. The minute they knew I was new I got a ton of help with my builds and equipment. To this day we have tabs in our fleet bank for free items ( I no longer need help so I try to give) Star Trek as a whole is a very kind and tolerant community.


lotusmaglite

I've been playing about a year, and the playerbase of STO has been better than average when it comes to the usual MMO toxicity. Meaning it's not a particularly bad example of the usual. What I *have* found that seems worse than other MMOs is the level of discontent and dissatisfaction with the game, with the devs, and with new content. And frankly, I don't blame players for being harshly critical. Because more than any MMO I've played (admittedly not many), STO is a fabulous disaster. I've never seen an MMO so clogged with buggy legacy code, nor seen an MMO whose own company doesn't understand half the code. They can't work on an astonishing amount of problems with Star Trek Online, because *they don't even know how it works*. It's not a coincidence that the OP finds the quality of the playerbase has worsened. That's what you get when a company openly declares - by action - that the game is now virtually 100% a vehicle for legalized gambling. Doing the absolute bare minimum to keep the game running, and providing content mostly designed to funnel players toward the slot machines, tells you how much respect for the game the company has. And if they don't respect it, the players will follow that example. Unlike a sizable portion of the playerbase, I *do* have a problem the business model. This is part of a larger complaint I have with video game industry in general, which has in no small part swept aside video gaming for video gambling, and continually puts out shoddy, buggy products. Worse, players reward these lazy attempts, throwing money at substandard products and blatant gambling mechanisms. And since nobody is ever wrong, we have a large portion of the playerbase who is then mortally committed to justifying the laziness, greed, and poor craftsmanship. While we're looking for toxic players, we might as well call those people out, too.


ACrispyPieceOfBacon

Blame Cryptic for creating that environment.


super_reddit_guy

Can you explain to me how Cryptic created that environment and made you act in the way magusjosh describes?


ACrispyPieceOfBacon

Off the top of my head * Cryptic refusing to moderate in-game chat, despite that being asked for at least a decade * Slow trickle of content over the years resulting in burnout after any new shiny thing is acquired, and then being left with nothing to do * Latest EP turning STO into a wannabe mobile game, which has been negatively viewed by players, and continues to annoy many * Devs openly being hostile against the playerbase, which then players go right back at them * Devs unable to even take constructive criticism, which leads to hostile environments * Consistently breaking aspects of the game that unfortunately don't get fixed, which is upsetting players * Players genuinely upset to see what the game is becoming, but still heavily invested in either time or money, or both, which results in them sticking around, but slowly hating the game * "Oh well" attitude that has been adopted by Cryptic, which only gets reversed at times when gaming news outlets publish negative articles about STO Been around since the live reveal of STO. The game was a rushed mess at launch thanks to PE dropping the ball, and Cryptic needing to meet a deadline, but the playerbase was definitely better. Over the years things changed at Cryptic, and even more so after PWE took over, and a heavy eastern influence set in with how the game was handled. Doesn't help that the devs are obviously burnt out at this point and will snap or insult players on Twitter, etc.


notHooptieJ

this x1000


n8pu

Ditto


endMinorityRule

do a lot of games moderate in-game chat? none that I've played do.


Zipa7

No MMO I've played has ever done this, and I've been playing them since Everquest and SWG. Most games (STO included) have a report system and GMs. The GMs get a report of someone or something occurring in game, investigate and act accordingly. STO is also incredibly tame in terms of chat compared to other MMOs, people who think STO is bad should spend some time in DK chat in SWTOR, it will be a eye opening experience.


IMTrick

Same here. Never happens. The fact that people have been asking for it for years is mostly irrelevant. And there are a lot of reasons nobody does it -- from the amount of manpower it would take to monitor all the chat channels to potential legal liability if they start moderating and aren't consistent enough about it. I agree ESD is a cesspool, but I've played a lot of MMOs and I have about 1,000 other possible zone names I could replace "ESD" with in that sentence. Chat being awful isn't an STO problem, it's an MMO problem.


TheSajuukKhar

Ive never seen an MMO that had an active team of people moderating chat. Its always based entirely on player reporting.


TurbulentTruffle

I'll take a stab at it. In the attempt to turn STO into a FOMO-driven mobile game, the focus on story and exploration has taken a back seat to non-stop, supergrind FOMO events. Get the latest shiny by doing the same content over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over for a month at a time before grinding the next thing you've already ground to death in the past. There's no point in engaging with other players. You get in, do your chores, get out. In-game crafting and economy have been neglected for so long they hardly exist. Same with fleets. Everything just feels stale and overgrown with weeds, while the only thing receiving attention are the money grabs. I'm sure I could come up with lots more things to be bitter about, but those leap out as first and foremost reasons I think trolls (I'd include myself, but I don't even care enough to troll ESD chat) do new players a favor by repulsing them early.


Puzzleheaded_Gold379

D'nara Vestuvius Baraseko. Thats my main character and she has a biography that you are looking for. I think the player base is negative because the game has gone ultra greedy. So while we love Star Trek we also feel like we are being taken for fools and having our intelligence insulted. They are so concentrated on releasing lockbox ships that only hundreds will be able to fly and have done very little in the way of fixing long standing issues with the game. Whenever you are looked at as only a checkbook and then they don't even do much to get that to open up but rather playing on your love for a franchise that they have basically imprisoned in its only MMO I can understand the frustration of the players. I recently came back after a VERY LONG hiatus and I love the new missions (new to me) and I like some of the new systems but it was insanely buggy playing through all the new arcs, things still seem ridiculously out of balance, and honestly there is no actual gameplay mechanics besides control and dps. I heal people on my team just for craps and giggles but its never actually needed. Many of us spend good money on this game and we expect more. And more doesn't necessarily mean more ships. I want a more reliable and balanced game. But they are more concentrated on sales and getting me to spend even more money on zen to buy stuff to play on an increasingly broken game.


MingusPho

There are quite a few players I don't like to run tfo's with but I don't let them ruin the game for me. I've only been playing for a couple of years but when I beam up to my ship the players cease to exist for me. At that point it's all about my bridge crew and whatever story I happen to be running in my head at the time. I'm good enough now that I can play my favorite fun-soles without DPS chasers ruining the tfo's. I also employ counter DPS tactics or just go to a different area of the map when they get to be too much. Whenever I see a character with a silly name or design I usually don't even engage with them. There's enough options available that you don't have to let them dominate your play experience.


Endless__Soul

Zone Chat is the main reason why I turned off Zone Chat, and my Star Trek Online gaming experience vastly improved.


HikiTheHermit

Yeah bro I know what you mean experinced it first hand. Alot of things I had to figure out on my own, I didn't meet alot of helpful people in sto. Like I didn't know you can move resources between charcaters like dill for a year of playing. And things like that. No one bothered to tell me things that would save me up time.


Corantheo

So, as the leader of an RP fleet, I was gonna defend our story and say "hey, you're wrong" but then I remembered that while you could jump in and join an RP episode with us, the overarching storyline is hard to parse out unless you hit 9/10 RPs we run. So yeah, you're not entirely wrong there. Plus you're spot on about zone chat. It makes cancer look pleasant sometimes, so much so that I consider it a good day of recruiting when my people don't get trolled. That said, shameless plug, if you want to know more about Nova Star Task Force, shoot me a message here.


Honda_TypeR

> Here's the point: the vast majority of players I encounter every day don't seem to be interested in the game beyond getting the latest and greatest thing, or maxing out their DPS and showing off how quickly they can blow through a TFO without any help. Yes, this is indicative of an imbalance in game mechanics...but people are still taking advantage of it, and always will. This is an excellent identification with one if the main core failings of this game. However, this is not a problem for the player base to fix. This is a content and balance issue. This game is simply not fun to play for long periods of time once you’re “end game”. It’s a common failing in a lot of mmos. Lack of end game worthy content. Simple fix is for them to start putting some amazing ships, weapons and consoles behind content and not behind a paywall. If they have amazing items that can only be acquired by doing extremely hard content that gives people a reason to actually play instead of just spending money…they will play. Perhaps some solo, small group and large group oriented raids (a combo with increasing levels of rewards for the harder the content is to obtain…so people can be proud of their achievements). With no way to buy or acquire with rl cash now OR even in the future. Have it be great enough to encourage people to strive for it, little junky trinkets and baubles aren’t going to cut it for veterans. Then they need to keep adding more over time in the same manner to keep veterans striving for more. The reason vet players don’t play is because you can buy everything good in the game (either with dil, lobi, credits or rl money. That’s not a player base issue for taking advantage of that, that’s a design issue for making content so shallow. As far as toxic players on zone chat that is an issue for the majority of online games to some degree. The only way to truly fix this is for the developer to hire active moderators all day and do their work. The games you think have 100% pure communities in, either a) don’t even have a zone chat or b) have mods ban sticking people hardcore (but under the radar). Even Reddit has endless trolls and look how moderated this place is.


AscenDevise

A few thoughts of my own here, from the perspective of someone who's been around, on and off, since the game went F2P: * Disabling Zone Chat has been one of my best decisions yet. Sure, I haven't done it on all my alts, but whenever I spend more than the required few minutes for marauding, contraband and prisoner turn-ins and admiralty on one of the entities that still have it on I am quickly reminded why it was such a good idea. Even at its worst, however, STO Zone Chat can't hold a candle to a whole bunch of other spots from various MMOs (Dromund Kaas and Coruscant, from SWTOR, being among them; I agree with everyone who mentioned them). For being helpful and getting help, /r/stobuilds, RedditChat and this place's Discord (see the sidebar) can be solid resources. NoP Public Service is another relevant channel; 'NoP', by the way, stands for 'Nerds of Prey', which was founded as the KDF-aligned STO arm of the (in)famous EVE Online corporation known as 'Goonswarm'. Having flown with those people for a while over there - one of my exes is, or was, a member and encouraged me to give the dang thing a go - I can tell you that they were extremely helpful... toward their own. Here? Maxed-out holding invite? You got it. Maxed-out fleet invite? Plenty of people got that as well. Cell Ship? No problem. (You can even end up on mine if I'm around.) Build advice? Gameplay hints, tips and tricks? No problemo. Hell, just to give a recent example, I even ended up with a bunch of lolnuts (Lohlunat Favors) from someone in NoP PS - thank you so much, yet again, if you end up reading this - after mentioning my essential tremors over there. This alone indicates that a significant amount of players, a number of them not particularly nice IRL and/or in other games, are pretty gosh darn helpful here, at the very least. * Can't help you on the RP side that much, unfortunately, because my idea of doing that involves a handful of well-thought-out paragraphs with rhyme, reason, some understanding of creative writing, familiarity with lore and all that jazz in the case of each post; in STO I usually stop around the moment when my characters have names adequate for their species and culture. However, if you want to run ship builds with faction-appropriate or, where that's possible, as-seen-on-TV gear and piloting, do join the Star Trek Battles channel. * Personally, I don't know what can be done, aside from each of us doing a teensy bit more toward lending others a hand, making sure that we're communicating in a civil manner and voting with our feet and wallets when we see something we don't like from the devs, nor do I particularly care. If you ask me, losing a whole bunch of EC due to placing something on the exchange for 100 million, rather than a billion, teaches better than umpteen 'be careful about pricing when you post' carebear messages. I could use resources like that, thank you, since (in spite of being in the EU; /u/magusjosh, since you asked, my timezone is GMT + 2) my country's dangerously close to Third World status in multiple areas and I don't exactly rank among our rich. Ditto for ragequitting instead of giving an honest go at reading up about how the game is played from external sources - I pity da foo' wot can't deal with frustration in a dated, buggy and intentionally hard to understand MMO; no idea how real life must feel for some of them. I also have a problem with anyone who chooses to AFK in advanced TFOs - if ya wanna AFK, solo the dang thing, don't spoil it for everyone else. So on, so forth. Still, not much I can do about them, so that's that.


Attentive_Senpai

Admittedly I've been playing this game since it launched and the "the game is dying and everything is bad" posts started literally on day one, so I can take this one with a shrug. The game is what it is and if I didn't like it I wouldn't come back or put money into it.


BratanApfel

The block and ignore Button are gonna be your best friend. Seriously. So many hostile people.


vaygara

Politics is a thing is a lot of mmo, but I know what you mean. Only yesterday during the dance set on Risa, there was a full on discussion in chat between a American republican and a democrat with the fire being stoked by a German player. I minimised chat. My fleet is predominantly American (im in U.K.) but we get along well enough as a fleet, we chat on teamspeak in game and help each out in missions and grinding and new additions to the fleet get help to level up and any questions answered. I’ve also done TFO when people join and say hi in team chat, before obliterating the npcs in seconds. Something I can’t do lol. I also have contacts on my friends list from other fleets, one of whom helped me develop my first Romulan way back when. So there are some good, nice helpful players and I hope you find them.


Expert-Quote7165

Great post, and great comments.. count me in as someone who wants to learn and help grow the game 🎮 👌 💯 🙂


MrPNGuin

You are just focusing on the bad. This is what the ignore function is for, it amazes me the people who want to complain about a few of the more annoying trolls in the game and not just ignore them, trust me it makes all those "cesspools" just fine.


JermoeMorrow

>I have found the player base of Star Trek Online to be increasingly unpleasant, openly hostile, or - at best - indifferent to the game and other players. It's rare that I ask a question in zone chat and don't get answers. I've seen people respond to questions about obtaining something with "here, I'll mail it to you". And this is in ESD. I've seen no decline in helpfulness in zone chat, which I always have on, either in ESD or Risa during event. >Yes, I agree that the Lockbox mechanic is abhorrent, and I think the developers would both make more money...by putting those items in the Zen Store, The industry wouldn't have moved to lockboxes if that was true, although they do seem to be experimenting with moving away from such practices, given the antagonistic legal enviroment, with equally hated Mudd's store and Legendary bundles. >Here's the point: the vast majority of players I encounter every day don't seem to be interested in the game beyond getting the latest and greatest thing, or maxing out their DPS and showing off how quickly they can blow through a TFO without any help. When talking about the game itself, what else would you expect? In any game,. Conversation about a game tends to be on the latest content and the best ways to get through it. >The few character biographies I still see - yes, I am a role-player - rarely have anything to do with the actual Star Trek property My bio is game relevant, and I would say most people with bios are generally related to universe. Hell, I literally saw someone wearing an elaborate X-men's Cyclops cossplay with an elaborate backstory of how they escaped from a secret weapons program in the mirror universe. And I habitually check for bios on anyone that looks remotely interesting. >Zone chat - no matter where you are, but especially ESD (and currently Risa) - is a cesspit of trolls, political arguments, and if you're very lucky two or three minutes of actual conversation about the game and/or Star Trek. Don't even bother trying to ask for help there. Besides that being my number one place to successfully ask for help, I've found the most toxic people are generally the ones who call it toxic (that holds for most games actually). >Fleets -... - are now a terrible thing to join. The few that are still interested in fostering community are either tied up in long-term RP stories that are too dense for new players to easily enter, or are completely focused on DPS maxing to the exclusion of anything else, including any socialization. Sounds more like the RPers you met were too hardcore for you, and the DPSers are understandably into DPS instead of RP. >often locking newly joined members out of Fleet stores until a baseline of donations has been reached This is pretty standard, since provisions aren't free or unlimited. Haven't heard much of people getting kicked either in zone chat or here. Are you sure you were kicked JUST because you reached the quota? >No, I feel bad for new players because they're being met by an existing player base that is, in my experience, frequently unpleasant, sometimes openly hostile, and often just looking to take advantage of them. We are playing vastly different games. Community both here and in game is generally helpful. If you are having such problems, this may be a case for some self reflection.


neok182

> The few character biographies I still see - yes, I am a role-player - rarely have anything to do with the actual Star Trek property. I've encountered immortal vampire fairy princesses, managers of Space Denny's, and more "woke up in this world" characters that escaped from Isekai manga and anime than I care to count. The last time I saw a bio that was actually for a Starfleet (or KDF) starship captain was a month ago. > > Zone chat - no matter where you are, but especially ESD (and currently Risa) - is a cesspit of trolls, political arguments, and if you're very lucky two or three minutes of actual conversation about the game and/or Star Trek. Don't even bother trying to ask for help there. > > I occasionally hang around ESD and tolerate the Zone chat not to participate, but to try to help any new players who try to ask questions there. Because the ridicule and intentionally bad advice I see people getting is a horrible thing for a new player to experience. > > Fleets - I gave up on my dead fleet several months ago - are now a terrible thing to join. The few that are still interested in fostering community are either tied up in long-term RP stories that are too dense for new players to easily enter, or are completely focused on DPS maxing to the exclusion of anything else, including any socialization. The rest just want fresh blood for their Fleet Marks and Dilithium, often locking newly joined members out of Fleet stores until a baseline of donations has been reached, then bumping the player out of the fleet without giving them access. Just wanted to respond to a few of these as someone who plays another MMO, Guild Wars 2. Character bios being things having absolutely nothing to do with the game is a completely normal thing in MMOs and no reason to put STO down because of it. There are literal millions of people who play MMOs who don't give a shit about the world, lore, or anything, they just like how the game plays and that's it. These are the people who get annoyed that they can't skip cutscenes the day new content comes out. Now I sure don't understand it, but some people are just like that in MMOs. Zone chat/map chat being the worst scum in the world is, again, a completely normal MMO thing. GW2 has gay and trans characters in it's story and the amount of anti-LGBTQ stuff in map chat is just horrifing. Report/block and move on. As a mod of the GW2 subreddit I at least get to ban it there. There is nothing that can really be done about this. Sure some people will get banned for using slurs but no one is going to start banning political discussions unless it turns to threats and violence so map chat is just always going to be shit no matter the game. Fleets/Guilds, this is another thing, everything here you're talking about has nothing to do with STO and is a completely normal thing in MMOs this old. That's why Reddit Fleet exists and there are still lots of great fleets that let people in all the time. My fleet, Access Denied, has 5 fleets in total to fit all of our members and all are maxed out. We even took over another fleet when their leadership retired and just made it another one of ours. In Guild Wars 2 I was with the same guild since launch but they stopped doing a lot of guild content and even they realized it so they partnered with two other guilds so we can rep any of the three we like and maintain membership in all 3. No rules or requirements. It's great. But yeah, for every great fleet there are a few shit ones with wannabe dictators as leadership or exclusionary rollplay fleets. It happens, just have to move on and find another one, and again this is a normal in every MMO. I completely agree with you that all of these things suck. They are not good for the game, but the simple fact is that they are all normal in basically every single MMO and even just multiplayer games in general. Sad but just how it is.


TrunksTheMighty

The attitude is never going to get any better. Players are unhappy, pw is trying to shake every cent they can out of them. We're drip fed content, which is pretty lame in quality. This whole year of klingon was awful. They don't listen to us, they only want our money, I'm unhappy. I don't go trolling zone chat, but I have no hope anymore for the future of this game. As your little utopia of bullshit where the game has potential... Not while PW is in charge. You try having a good attitude while being held by your ankles being shaken for money.


TzuWu

>Not while PW is in charge. Yup and it's been like that for the 8 years they've been in charge. One of the first things they did after going f2p was add loot boxes, the first of 30+? How much "potential" can STO really have at this point, it's going on 12 years old, 8-9 of it under PWE.


dofffman

I am definitely part of the bad attitude players you speak of. I like that although the game is in the star trek world there are costumes and options for people to make all sorts of non trek things and roleplay as they like. Star wars, stargate, babylon 5, anime, whatever. Its part of the game that appeals to me. Im sorry it somehow ruins your experience the way I and others choose to play the game.


nasedolyne

I'm with you. It's also an interesting position for the OP to take in a world where we have official published material (of course non-canon) where Trek celebrates having some fun by doing crossovers with Transformers, X-Men, and Dr. Who.


rodentmaster

If you're a role player, you're in the wrong game. Period. You can add a bit of it to this game, but you need to play another game if that's your primary want/need. The rest of the things you listed? Don't blame the players, blame the devs. Why? Let's review the major points: Zone chat: TURN THIS OFF ALWAYS! Never use zone. It's utter garbage and drivel. Mods and devs don't want to address the abuse in it or the way it is used to troll, harm, or even grift from the unsuspecting playerbase. Fleets: Devs drove the price of any fleet holding up a billion-trillion dilithium and years of hard grinding. They want you to spend thousands of real-world dollars to bypass most of this grind by buying your dilithium. The same time they introduced these astronomical dil prices and time gates, they also significantly reduced the dilithium you got from daily, weekly, and just repeated TFOs, the dil you got from special events, and other stuff like that. They cut back on all sources of dil and jacked all costs of dil through the roof, including upgrading equipment and gear and other general things like grinding doffs or recruiting them as well. These last things used to be free. The constant increasing grind has not only caused fleets to be exponentially harder to progress, it has also killed off most of the player base that was participating in those fleets. We used to have THOUSANDS of fleets for any kind or type you'd want. Now there's only a handful of active ones and they're so impersonal you will never meet or play with the people in your fleet. This, as well as other things, has driven the playerbase down, made it harder to find new friends, and so on and so forth. All ties back to how the game has been (mis)managed for the past 10 years. It's still a fun game, but it's not very Trek at all. It's definitely NOT an RP game. You can find some friends and you can enjoy it, but like almost any game (say, R6, COD Warzone, anything) finding friends takes a lot of effort until you get some regulars.


Kile_Morgan

I started playing this game when it was pay and not free to play. Lets start there. You want to say that Devs are only partly to blame for issues, that's a fair statement. Then however this just goes into one thing after the other that is laid completely at the players feet. Spending money is a voluntary thing, it might be. Except that now over 90% of the new ships are placed inside one form of gamble box or another. Like this new ship. But you can get them in the exchange you might try and say. Only after players gamble away Spock only could compute how much money to get those ships. One bloated bundle after another with 1 or 2 things a player wants and 5-15 ones that will end up filling the limited space they have. They refuse to release the actual odds of winning anything. Then there is Mudd. This is like a store more then doubling an items price then they tout a sale of 20-75% off. Fleets, Character Biographies? Fleets are not made to fill voids left by Devs. Players do not have to create some history full of all ST cannon just to satisfy someone else. Some people just want to play the game and have fun, not create a space opera. The basic game is sometimes solid, but issue after issue. Bug after bug. Pushing more and more events that now aren't just tedious but overlapping. To the point it feels like leaving one job to go home to another. So you go into the sometimes 4-5 missions to find that most of them have issues that make several almost unplayable. Zone Chat .... You're really going to go there. this is supposed to be about playing a game. Not about players spending hours Roleplaying like Spock doing Hamlet in the original Klingon. Yeas there's at times a lot of rubbish like Politics, blame society as a whole because that goes on everywhere. And Reddit is a good place so see it also. Unless you want to likely die of a heart attack please just don't go anywhere near those forums. even though if you're like me you get bombarded with e-mail after e-mail for them. I see a lot of the players in that, what about you? Do you go in and like some try and change or head off those sometimes mind numbing exchanges, or just sit back and blame others? New players meeting a openly hostile player base. Why don't you really look at what you are saying and ask how you would take it if you were the target? You don't sucker punch a person then ask why so upset. And if you do this here you may well do it in the game. I see new players ask questions in the game and get answers. Not always the ones they want to hear but answers. Clean up our collective acts. I mentioned having been in the game for well over 10 years. 1st Anniversary if some of us remember their servers were hacked. Private information of months of players taken and they for over two months said nothing. I was one of the players who had my account cleared of all characters. Loosing everything. Was told it was my fault for not protecting my account well enough. Even after they added new security forcing everyone to have to go through a process to play. They didn't come clean till a employee broke the story on their own. They still refused to do anything at all or take responsibility. Even though they could have just taken my slightly less advanced versions i still had sitting in tribble. **NOTHING** but double down on blaming me. Same for a lot of others. I walked. Between that insult and medical issue it took a few years to come back. Back because I was told new management. While it's never happened again time after time I see misleading or missing details. Bait and switch, and the list goes on. There is no incentive to use tribble because one it doesn't seem or feel like they listen to player feedback, in fact if you're an old player you can't leave any unless youi use the in game ticket system. Period. While most of the time the person responding is trying to be helpful he tells you to post in the forums about the issue. Gives you a link to the forum support if you have an issue. A link that while it does work I have tried several times. Wasted all that time giving detailed information to people who might be dead at their desks or let go for all I know. No one has ever **...** **EVER ...** one of those. I agree that every player including me should try and be nice to other players but really who needs to clean up their act. The Devs who unlike players just go along full speed ahead without ever changing their ways. I'd not be so general in who if I had any real idea which ones were trying but get voted down. You want to say that players like Devs have some blame, I'd be with you. you though everyone playing. Intent or not. You change that to something less all encompassing and you try and not blame them for everything wrong and i'll agree. But I will never agree to this. Especially since reading it has dredged up a lot of less then good thoughts about a game I keep trying to give another chance to.


Minoreva

I've been playing since the launch. I even have bought a limited edition, the one with the science tricorder. To put it simply, STO community (at least in-game) made me hating being a fan of star trek. Earth Space Dock politics & Trump discussions are notorious even outside of the game. I feel like many people forgot what Star Trek was about. Tolerance, sharing something, exploration.. I only see hatred about what people enjoy or think is trash while doing my risa daily, traveling to space dock or asking something on \[Zone\] channel. As a French, the RP is absolutely absent. Only few are surviving.


AndyFewzz

It is on a rundown, the hardcore thats left that actually do end game do the same elite couple of ques over and over and spend hundreds to get 1dps more, there is a couple of Tubers still left doing this and they are not the nicest of ppl ingame unless you run around worshipping them. The game is 11yrs old and even Craptic knows its had its day and why you see so many sales all the time etc, the Devs have only themselfs to blame for its radical downfall except age ofcourse, you wont see no big fixes like the trait bugs as theres only a few devs left on the game and they are there to create the last few money grabs that they can. All sad but true and ive been here since beta, i am the only one left out of my friends but i only log on do a Endevour if i can be bothered to do it then i log off. I most certainly will not spend another penny on the game, even the ships all do the same thing with same stats now. PS The end game is appalling, as for the community, i agree it gets worse and worse, alot of players only have trolling left to do ingame esp at Spacedock and boy do they troll.


DarthMeow504

>the hardcore that's left that actually do end game do the same elite couple of ques over and over and spend hundreds to get 1dps more I don't know who to blame, I've seen the devs in the past try to diversify content and I don't know if it's a loud minority or what but there's a pushback against anything that isn't space combat. Mechanics? What are those? The players ignore the instructions and complain that they can't shoot their way through. They complain about timegates, but ignore that they created that necessity by their incessant demands for power creep and screaming at any attempt to close off the DPS exploits or restore even the slightest semblance of balance to combat --they wanna just vaporize everything and then complain that they're bored. They spend money, though, so of course they get their way. They complain about even simple puzzles, they skip through all the dialogue in story missions and just get to the shooting, and then go right back to running ISA over and over and over again chasing that parse. And they'll buy anything that gets that number just a little bit higher despite that any usefulness for that much damage is nonexistent. It's all about that number, which they will lord over everyone else and if it ruins everything for others they'll just sneer at their "inferiors" and say they don't belong in the game. They've slowly chased away everyone else, and it's a toxic symbiosis between devs catering to them and them demanding more (and throwing money at it) while everything else that attracted other types of players is slowly hollowed out. There was a significant backlash the last time the devs tried to wrangle the DPS monster back into a reasonable balance (and even that didn't go nearly far enough) and since then it's only gotten worse. I don't know that the game would survive another attempt because there isn't much else left but the space power creep and the ship collectors to sustain revenue with. For the rest of us, what is there? Ships and weapons and powers and not much to do with any of it. There's less story content in the game now than when I joined, as much as they've removed, and all the various locations have been slowly abandoned or eliminated. The story itself no longer makes sense as whole sections of narrative are gone and you just lurch through events that no longer have buildup or exposition or connection between them and they only make sense if you remember what was removed. At this point I don't think there's much of anything left for this game except to roll it back to like the end of the Iconian War or something and run the server as "Classic Star Trek Online" in maintenance mode. At least then we'd have the Foundry so the players could actually create the content the devs won't make and the DPS-addicts don't want.


UristTheDwarf

Demanding mental effort on the part of players is far more taxing than demanding that they hammer the spacebar while flying in circles. If you're going to demand more of people, you have to pay them more. There's a reason why an engineer that rarely has to leave his office gets paid more than a manual laborer. STO pretty much never does this. Thus, more demanding content is not seen as adequately compensated for effort. And it's just frustrating when the content demands more of OTHERS, which you have no control over, rather than merely more of YOU.


thebus69420

I really have no idea what you are talking about, really don't. STO has one of the most friendly and welcoming communities. There is always advise and also good advise given when someone asks politely, players usually get helped out and I really don't see alot of toxicity in STO. If you think the STO Community is toxic chances are that that's on your interpretation of what people say and you might need more than just one layer of skin or a protective jacket. And then I don't know how you specifically talk to people, but I connect and form new Relations with both new and experienced people all the time in STO and some of those turn into actual friendships. So I do not see problems there. As for fleets I think again you are way to sensitive. 95-98% of the fleets are casual fleets. For an RP player like you who does 5k DPS maybe getting into a fleet with people doing 50k or 100k might seem like they're extreme DPS chasers, but let me tell you something: 50 or 100k DPS isn't a DPS focus, it's good but it's no numbers when you compare it to actual chart topping and DPS chasing. So yeh, no ,most fleets are not DPS oriented at all. There are definitly a couple of them, but it's a tiny minority in the end looking at all fleets... And now for the thing that actually really pisses me off about your post and which is the reason why above written has a slightly raised tone of voice: What's wrong that you, somehow, think that people chasing DPS is somehow less worthy or something. Like, Roleplaying is not the ultimate thing and everything else is a lesser type of gameplay, this kinda just screams entitlement from your side. Let. People. Play. The. Game, seriously. If you Like RP, that's cool, I don't like RP but I don't somehow see it as lesser gameplay. If I want to DPS and that is what I want to do, damn let me! You don't have to like or do DPS, but let people play how they want. Same goes for people wanting to have the newest stuff btw. This is totally fine and normal and has nothing to do with an unhealthy playerbase... In the end as a summary: I think you are just waayy to over sensitive and/or maybe have just made bad experiences but then I also detect an entitlement towards roleplay so there might again be only one person at fault here instead of the playerbase. It's not a reason to make a Reddit post complaining and judge the playerbase and attitude at large.


JCBourdier

I have three problems with the game: 1. It's not "Star Trek Online." It's "Unending-Senseless-combat-to-the-death-in-every-encounter-in-the-Star Trek-universe Online." What very little science and discovery they had is the very early versions of the game were seriously flawed. Instead of fixing them, they removed them altogether. My science officer captain typically kills more people on a single mission than Kirk (both Shatner and Pine together) did in all of his episodes and movies combined. I play science officers exclusively, and yet my focus is still supposed to be DPS. 2. I'm a rotten fleet member. I don't contribute much or often. (SIDEBAR: I actually had that beaten out of me. I was in a fleet about five years ago that I just about single-handedly built the fleet science station from scratch (consistently in the top 3 contributors). Months later I went on vacation. When I got back, I had been kicked out of the fleet for not signing on for a week straight -- no, I didn't play, I was on fucking vacation.) I typically don't participate in fleet events -- the last time I did, the lowest DPS in the group other than me did an average of 40x my DPS. But my preferred ship is ONLY available to me if I'm in a fleet. It's bad enough that I have to pay real money for the fleet ship modules, but I can't even buy it outright if I'm not in a fleet. I have no problem at all with fleets getting SHORTCUTS to good ships and equipment, but it really bothers me that I'm barred from getting good stuff altogether if I'm not in a fleet, no matter how much real money I'm willing to pay. 3. I'm obviously no lawyer, but the Lockboxes are internet gambling. I don't think they should be allowed at all. I think all the content in the game should be available to all players. I have no problem with fleets getting bonuses or shortcuts to the great stuff, and I truly don't have a problem with those players that choose to bypass the hard work and struggle and outright buy the great stuff with real money. But I think even the Free-to-Play players (I'm a lifetime subscriber, if you're wondering) should be able to work toward and achieve that killer T-6 ship of their choice with the super powerful equipment. Oh, sure, there are a bunch of little things, too... I'd like to see science and discovery back in the game. I think incorporating the tricorder puzzles from Star Trek: Elite Force would go along way to making that more fun. I freely admit that the "enter the system, click Scan 5 times, then leave" was the definition of "boring" and that those missions need complexity and difficulty. I think Captain should be the top rank that a player can have. I think rank and level should be unrelated, with one leveling system for game level, and a different system for rank I want an open option for the Prime Odyssey jacket (like the open Sierra jackets) so my female toons & BOFFs can show a little cleavage without dressing them in mirror uniforms. I think you should have the option of creating a default or ship uniform instead of, or in addition to, designing uniforms for just the BOFFs. Remember the Azure Nebula mission, where you walk in the gangway out to a full-sized Enterprise-C? I'd like to see a "ship inspection" option on the menu to go to your ship interior, an option that puts you in a travel pod or work bee so you can experience your ship's exterior full sized. Strictly RP here: I'd like the option to bring a BOFF with me when I beam to the ESD or Academy. I may be a loner in real life, but if I'm sitting at a table in Club 47, I'd like someone there with me. And this one is really out there: You know that Mezzanine balcony/corridor that no one uses because there's nothing there but the memorial? I'd like to be able to create, past the door on the end opposite the runabout bay, a "captain's apartment" that can be expanded/furnished with various stuff or options opened up as your captain advances (or that you can buy), similar to your ship's bridge, but customizable. But those three up top are my big gripes with the game


mike47gamer

As an extreme introvert, the lack of social interaction of ANY kind is just perfect, in my opinion. But then I'm an INFJ-T at 98% introverted according to Meyers-Briggs. Edit: Downvotes for saying I enjoy not having the company of others...kind of proves why I don't enjoy the company of others.


Isea_R

I'd like to thank you. For providing such a wonderful public service by making such a one sided, blame everyone post. Clearly you must be offering a punching bag in here for people to hit over and over to try and get rid of some of their frustration. The way goes point by point targeting an entire base. And after you toss all those grenades you then toss in something trying to sound positive yet still go after an entire player base. At least at the end you take a little of the blame yourself.


Callahandy

While I can see where you’re coming from, and agree with some of your post, I suggest joining the in-game RedditChat channel. Its a super-friendly, welcoming place.


Magelo77

While I agree that players in this game can be toxic. There are also a lot of good players as well. Yes the devs screw up every now and then and we give them a hard time about it but all in all they know we love them or we wouldn't be playing still or paying out the money that we do. My issue I have with this game currently is the monetization of it. I know the devs have nothing to do with that but some one needs to step up to those who are in charge of the monetization and wake them out of the dream world they live in. The prices of things are starting to get way out of hand and it's feeling more like one huge cash grab before the rats bail out of the sinking ship; rather then a game that designers love and enjoy making for fun. I recently watched a video Asmongold made about how other games are suffering from this exact same issue. The college frat boys have taken over corporate now and it's the attitude of let's bleed them dry of all their money rather then saying hey what new content can we add to make this game even more fun and interesting to the players.


Gorgonops_SSF

Zone chat's always been a wasteland. It lacks full time moderation so features in a lot of acting out by kids let lose in a public forum on the wings of anonymity and their worst impulses. As for fleets, you're shopping around social groups. If you have particular requirements then it'll be more difficult. A fleet like the P1 armada (in my experience, others may differ) is a pretty handy default for an active bunch you can hop in with without feeling a great sense of personal obligation. My own fleets are real laid back, great match, and overall I haven't had that much trouble finding new groups where necessary (though maybe I've just been lucky). Ultimately you have to accept a level of compatibility. Ie. it's as close to dating as the mechanics of STO push for. It's not really a player or developer problem since these boil down to the core aspects of personality and interest among different groups. Not matching is inevitable, and you just have to keep searching until you find a group you can settle with. This may involve reaching out through other networking platforms to find constructive people with like interests (STO community is active on twitter and twitch) so keep that in mind if you continue to struggle finding a fleet. \--------------------- As for the overall social dynamics: I will say that things have declined in recent years with the loss of the Foundry. That served as an in-built too fostering constructive social interactions as one player broadcasted their a story they often crafted with a lot of passion to others and that connection reverberated between them. I've never seen a gaming group that connected, supported, and fun to be around and that served as a nucleus for better interactions across other platforms. Without that, and without any adjustment to community interactions, platforms, or mechanics elsewhere (Cryptic more or less cut the cord); responses at a population level have tended to trend downward a what you have left are the forums, reddit, and social media structuring player interactions (which aren't built to foster constructive interactions). It's just like any other gaming community. There's a few bright exceptions and fun venues but there isn't a special mechanic supporting exceptional behavior. Fixing that is big task. Part of it falls on players to show empathy and initiative, to look at problems and not just think of the most self-satisfying take. This should be basic since it's exactly what Trek preached but with so many threads you don't see people taking lessons to heart (it's something you pay homage to every now and again to make yourself feel better, you don't really act on it though). But as things stand (and people react to the structure of this and other platforms) it's a dedicated effort. The other part is though is the devs. The way they build content mostly pays homage to the IP, creating cool moments that play to iconography (see. Trek theme park) or character arcs they want to tell (see. J'Ula). The problem though is that it sets the player at arms length in their narrative style. You don't FEEL a part of events or the universe. We just fought J'mpok, they guy most immediately responsible for the FED-KDF war that began this game, who framed us for Khitomer...but it had all the personal stakes *for us* as a routine patrol as we were relegated to mobile camera/background as J'Ula took the role of lead protagonist (like a DM fixated on a favored NPC, giving them a full arc while the party waits for at least a chance to roll for something). This hurts the player's experience with an RPG but it also denies a powerful connection between players. Having a meaningful experience builds a point of continuity they can share, build on, and have fun with. In feeling disconnected from the plot and setting we also feel disconnected from those we share it with which in turn contributes to dysfunctional interactions. Ie. Cryptic needs to start building around higher order social interactions and players need to practice what their iconography preaches. Both are efforts but if STO means something to you, you'll give it a shot.


9811Deet

The internet is full of annoying people. STO, less so than most of the rest of it.


NeutroBlaster96

I've been with STO from pretty much the beginning over two accounts and I agree pretty much with all this. I haven't experienced issues with fleets but I can believe it. And with the amount of vitriol and anger that is thrown at the devs by just the people on this subreddit, (and of course it isn't everybody, and I know the vast majority of people in STO are nice, but I see a lot of negative posts) but I can't imagine morale is pretty high for the devs. Criticism is different than just talking about how lazy the devs are because yeah, there might be legitimate issues with the gameplay or the story or the mechanics or loot boxes, but it's always drowned out by the assholes who just whine and give their own ways to make the game better without taking into account that game development is a difficult job, (I imagine, I know nothing about game design but it seems tough so I won't cast aspersions as to how easy or hard it is to fix bugs, etc.) especially when working for an IP that's held in a pretty iron grip nowadays with the Trek resurgence. They attack the devs because you can't attack CBS or the higher-ups, and that's wrong to me. It's like those jerks on Twitter attacking voice actors and writers for decisions that are entirely out of their hands. And just because you personally dislike a story decision doesn't mean there isn't someone out there that likes it! For a game based on a show about when humanity has grown out of its infancy, I don't see that much in the comments and posts here...


Zipa7

I find it kind of ironic that you are complaining about toxic players while clearly engaging in the same behaviour yourself. People roleplaying as characters from different things they love isn't harming you and suggesting that they aren't playing the game correctly is toxic in of itself. A long time friend of mine has his main character look like Joker not because he is a roleplayer but because he thinks it looks cool, who are you to shame him or anyone else?


TzuWu

I don't think OP is saying it's "harming" anything but you'd think people would want to RP as Star Trek entities in a Star Trek game?


Zipa7

Some people like my friend I mentioned have been here since beta and have done the star trek thing a lot already. Nothing wrong with seeing what you can do with the char creator, especially when STOs is really good.


Daionor

I 100% agree with you, the game's playerbase is generally openly hostile at best to new players, especially in the groupfinder stuff. Like I've been cussed out repeatedly for not doing super well in "dungeons" (using familiar terminology since I can't remember what it's actually called), more times than I can count, to the point I actually just quit. If I'm not given advice when I ask for it, and just cussed out for being a "noob", then what's the point? Why bother trying? I can't learn things on my own, I'm not able to retain information I just read over. I need to DO it to learn. But if I'm never able to because of idiots and ass holes like that then well, I'm not going to bother trying any more. ​ Worst part is, I liked the game. I WANTED to play. I wanted to get good enough to run with the big leagues. But the one fleet I got into that wasn't just a toxic cesspool wasn't able to help out a whole lot due to it being one of those "super laid back aka nobody is ever really online at the same time as anyone else" type of fleets.


Massak_

OP, why don't you just find a good RP fleet instead of complaining here? It would certainly take you less time than to write that weeping long letter. Players are not hostile to each other, maybe they just hostile to you when you annoy them with your crying 😄 Btw probably you didn't play another MMORPG, in STO the community is very good and helpful, in other games I've experienced they call you an idiot, a noob or they mock your low rating right from the beginning. You gave examples of three types of fleets, one focused on hard RP, another on minmaxing and the last even on the abuse of newcomers. I'm not sure about others but I can say that my fleet is none one of them, we will be happy to help everyone, unless they want a stuff for free or to require constant attention as has happened to us several times. Unfortunately, then such people complain like you.


dudeoftrek

Lol.


Deanna_Dark_FA

I wanted to write many words here, but better to say in short. Turn off all chats except your fleet/armada. Especially team chat during the TFO, otherwise you'll hear many insults from "game experts". Sadly, I still see their words in space , as pop-up dialogues, and usually there is almost nothing useful for the game process, just political bullshit or various insults. But I'm still sure, this group of offensive players not numerous. Such people are simply better seen, like a debris on the surface of the water. Sadly, when a newcomer meet them in the chat, they start to think all STO players are offensive.


Sp00ky_Electr1c

Well written and very interesting. This is my first year back after a ten-year hiatus. I can only imagine seeing the things that you've described. I have seen minor things people have done that were a little annoying but I haven't seen the problematic things with other newbies. I attribute that to my lack of using the chat system but I can imagine some "not so accurate" information being offered. All in all, I do feel that there is a lack of camaraderie, and if that's even happening within fleets, I will have to say that I must have completely lucked out. My fleet is great especially since I was offered an invitation by a leader when I came back from my hiatus and I was just at level 15 and have been promoted to the highest levels that don't require fleet management. It's a large fleet with several hundred members and the leaders prune the ranks monthly and I don't see any fleet notices treating the members as children either. I think that I was just naive to what is happening within other fleets and within the game itself. Yes, I consider myself lucky. TL;DR. It's sad to hear that this is going on and I agree, the players have a part in it and our actions will either contribute to making the environment better or making it worse. I am going to really think about what I can do personally to make it better. Thanks for the post, it really made me think.


TSB_1

>Zone chat - no matter where you are, but especially ESD (and currently Risa) - is a cesspit of trolls, political arguments, and if you're very lucky two or three minutes of actual conversation about the game and/or Star Trek. Don't even bother trying to ask for help there. I used to play WOW, and Barrens chat was TAME compared to this game. I turn off everything but fleet chat in settings. No one playing this game is worth listening to.


Salt-Presentation248

This is why people only play with friends


Khidorahian

For me what really gets me is the lack of fleets to help new players out, I've been playing for 3, almost 4 years and i've only managed to get one of my ships into 'decent' tier, in which it doesn't die within a couple hits of enemies. Its just, I don't know what to do anymore, all the major fleets have their own websites which are incredibly daunting to me and the only fleet i've been in has been basically left for dead.


cryptkeeper0

People only want to max dps because that's the community the devs are encouraging with their game design, at this point in sto lifespan there is not much you can do about changing this community. There aren't enough newcomers and many left due to cryptics gamble boxs. I don't think it is the communities responsibility to fix or change what the devs have fostered. While I sympathize maybe you need a break from the game?


JimHerbSpanfeller

It’s not like that on the PS4. I see role players and role play fleets every time I login. Although playerbase on PS4 isn’t what it once was since Winters passed. He organized a lot of the cross fleet PvP sessions and always got elite queues running


Messicrafter

Ye


Neinball98411

Hey all everyone on ps4 if you're looking for a friendly fleet/community try shadow riders


nakrophile

Here is my experience. This might be long, but then again I'm quite tired and should probably just go to sleep letp, so we'll see. I've never been a PC gamer, but I have been a console one since I was about ten, thereabouts. I'm also really slow at buying consoles, so I only got a ps4 last year. I remember reading the plot or missions of Star Trek Legacy on memory alpha year ago and thinking it would be nice to play, and also looking up on some of the details in STO about Tom Riker and some other stuff. It would be great to be able to play that, but alas. So I was really excited to finally play it last year. I created a starfleet character and had a great time playing the tutorial. Lovely to hear Aron, and I even bumped into Quark in some random ship. Cool. I could see it was an old game and that the gameplay was not the best, but oh well. After the tutorial I had bo idea what to do or where to go. I kept trying to start some mission to defend a starbase which never worked and eventually I gave up and went cack to dark souls. A few weeks later I tried again, had no luck and started a new character. Still starfleet, but this time a TOS character. Story was a lot better, and somehow I seemed to have a better grasp of what to do, or maybe those missions were just better designed. My character was thrown into the 25th century, I received a token to get a ship and I of course got the refit connie, and it was great. Story is very enjoyable and which each promotion I got another ship from the show. I still had no idea what I was doing and I must gave missed several events, I remember doing the battle of the binary stars one and being confused why rhe counter was still showing one after I had done it three times in a row. Eventually I found this place and asked a few questions, eventually I had a decent understanding of why I kept blowing up, and eventually I started to talk to the guy who randomly invited me to a fleet and join in with TFOs. Nowadays I have what's provably a pretty good set-up, I log in daily and have fun. I have spent a bit of money, nothing ridiculous but more than is sensible. Still, it's fun and I can afford it so it's okay. I don't think the game is actually very good but it's good enough and it's star trek so I have no huge complaints, and I'm still playing it so there you go. As far as the playerbase goes, the guy running the fleet I'm in is sound and we have a message group. I don't bother with the random in game chat stuff but have had many amusing times emoting, slow motion running, spamming dance moves or sitting on the beach with strangers. Or using my Defiant's new pilot maneuvers to barrel roll around orbit. One time I found someone else doing the same thing which was fun. Anyhow, unsure of the point of this post and I'm thinking about abandoning it. I'll probably post it though.


Alchemist_Moon

Nice post. but to be fair, well "immortal vampire fairy princesses" they have survived countless encounters, and had their ships explode, and fallen on the battle in personal combat many times, yet they rise up again. lol. edit: I can't type.


UristTheDwarf

Yeah, they respawn when they are killed and there's a kit module that straight up lets you be a vampire. Immortal Vampire Fairy Princess is absolutely a legit character in STO.


bionicsuperman

You rant is part of the "player attitude" problem... just complaining without offering any solutions is not gonna make things better. Its simple, if u don't like the game or the player base stop playing


jmaugrim

i must be blissfully ignorant. Thankfully I rarely encounter jerks and if I do, they are only in a TFO. I dont have to interact with anyone so I do think I encounter the same problems


Jotaro_Lincoln

Yeah, I feel your pain. I just automatically turn off zone chat whenever I enter, especially ESD. I find New Romulus Command is the safest from trolls and bigoted bullshit. But it’s not foolproof. It seems these days that everything is about grind and DPS, I too rarely see any player bios. But I know that does not necessarily mean they don’t have stories. I had a rich stockpile of character stories for my toons, but never thought anyone would be interested in reading about it, so I didn’t bother. I wrote out the stories in one toon’s bio, and that same exact day I got positive feedback on it. RP seems to be less organized or common, but it may well be there, just that people don’t think anyone cares anymore, and keeps it to themselves. My particular playstyle is to go for aesthetics and RP value first, and then CRAM as much DPS into that aesthetically pleasing shell as will comfortably fit. I play sci ships with beams on them, I use dual beam banks and normal dual cannons all the time for aesthetic purposes, and I like how things turn out. By the way OP, my pal and I have a full-ass RP based around tensions and politics in the 25th century mirror universe, and occasional adventures with the characters’ counterparts in the prime universe. PM me if you’re interested, we’d love to have someone else to enjoy stories with.