T O P

Love the insane upkeep reductions on black arks

Love the insane upkeep reductions on black arks

steve_adr

😮 HOW !?


Ausar_TheVile

Upgrading main black ark buildings gives massive unit upkeep reduction + research + admiral traits.


steve_adr

Nice 👍🏻


Ausar_TheVile

Upgrading main black ark buildings gives massive unit upkeep reduction + research + admiral traits.


TheBladeRoden

Nice 👍🏻


asdfreddi

all the ppl that say they think DE are to weak, nothing special, don't get them.... don't understand how these black arcs are the bread and butter of any DE campaign


Fukiers

just wish you could dock them at a port and within the circle range go pillaging and stuff outside of the ark but if you go outside of the circle range then they take heavy attrition...


Phelyckz

It just sucks that you need to essentially have a lord tag along to take over the doomstack once you captured a port.


Lurking_Gator

You can least recruit the lord at the port you conquered but yeah it is annoying.


Phelyckz

Yeah, woohoo, a lvl 1 sucker. I'd be afraid some dragon just sneezes and routs them.


Lurking_Gator

Well they can be higher level than that adm juts chilling in your recruitment pool. Idk if getting Vlad's trait affects how long it takes for Lords to be available again after disbanding but that could make it a bit more viable.


Zathandron

Pretty sure it does, any disband counts as being wounded.


Togglea

Doesn't work.


Ausar_TheVile

If you’ve confederated with someone you could have their LL just sitting in the recruitment pool


them_apples_

If you have the queen and the crone dlc, then you can recruit supreme sorceresses at high level very easily. Also, if you're playing morathi, you can recruit the sorceress hero from anywhere and recruiting them at a high level is easy as well, so even if you have a level 1 lord, you can still get a high level fire sorceress or something to go with them. Also, black arks take a while to really get going with all their buildings, so by that time, you really should have a decent amount of tier 5 capitals with the +1 lord recruit rank building, plus tech, etc. Again, supreme sorceresses are the best though, since there are way more ways to increase their recruit rank compared to the other lords.


[deleted]

Honestly you don't even need the BAs, slave economy is absurd in vanilla and they have one of the best scaling t1 archers and one of the three best missile infantry overall. BAs are still really good though.


asdfreddi

If you want to maximize your output as DE you need BA. Fully upgraded BAs: \-Free your provinces of the need to build military recruitment buildings except for high tier, seeing as they sometimes provide additional bonuses next to recruitment of units. You can have slave profit buildings and public order buildings and income buildings and still have walls if you wish. \-All your recruitment takes place from BA and they can churn out rank 9 units in a super fast manor. Getting fully experienced troops in a couple of turns is insane. By that point you can also recruit high level lords right away and thus your army profits right away from the special red line skills.


[deleted]

BAs are super good, I don't doubt that for a second. Whether you use them as mobile recruitment centers and free mages near coast-related frontlines or use them as floating armies to sack the old world, they are very potent. The point was more why anyone would consider DEs a weak race? They have to deal with Ulthuan and a bunch of them doesn't have the easiest start, but in a vacuum they are a really powerful race with one of the strongest economies in the game.


Cardinal_and_Plum

Except maybe Malus.


Gatsby890

Dark elfs are great .... until you go inland then you have an expensive army and very little replenishment.


webate

Sure, but upkeep "cheating" so they can spam more units isn't addressing the core issues of the Dark Elves. It is a band-aid solution, and they sort of did the same thing with the Beastmen too. "Faction is too weak? Remove upkeep!"


them_apples_

What are the core issues of the dark elves? I'm assuming you think they're a weak race because of your last sentence. Personally, i think they're easily top 3 in the game. They're so easy to snowball with and i did a full map complete with malekith recently in 160 turns on mortal empires without even trying to. They're just that strong.


mistranslatedlexicon

Not the guy you responded to but I think the core of their issues is that they aren't particularly strong until you have certain research and lord upgrades. Every DE LL starts around terrain that's difficult to pass and/or surrounded by enemies, but they have no underway, no faction starts with a 10% move bonus, and the research to upgrade their movement range takes a while to get. On that note, they need certain research but their research tree is set up to move very slow, and the only way to get a substantial buff to its speed is to steal tech, which you need a couple of t3 settlements to get enough sorceresses to get a decent increase. Shades are are actually better than sisters of avelorn, but only after you've upgraded both their range and fire rate through research and your lord has the rank 7 range increase, and all of that takes a while to get. Basically I find they are the weakest elves in the early game, then become a top tier faction as it transitions to the mid game as their research starts completing and their black arcs are pumping out rank 7 units. High elves and wood elves are definitely stronger right out of the gate though.


webate

Sorry I am 2 weeks late, haven't been on Reddit lately! No, I phrased that confusingly! Of course Dark Elves are strong (but every faction can be OP if managed correctly but that is another debate). What I mean is that they would be weaker without the Black Arks cheating upkeep. And the Black Arks upkeep reduction is not an *interesting* way to make go from weak to strong. As for what the core issues are, I'd write them all up but nobody is going to read that essay. But the short, short version is that I 1) don't think they have any interesting, unique or deep campaign mechanics 2) their roster at their base form is clunky and fights more poorly pound for pound compared to other rosters.


Psychic_Hobo

Lokhir's ark changed my whole perception of Dark Elves


WilmAntagonist

Slave economy goes 📈


Daemir

Terror of UlthAUn


Ausar_TheVile

He was too busy enslaving to spell it right


ProxyX13

I assume getting everything that provides upkeep reduction, including buildings amd blue line.


Ausar_TheVile

You got it :)


besnizec

Finished DE camp with malekith, had all tech, had ark fully upgraded, blue line maxed.. but 3 gold upkeep? 🙀


Ausar_TheVile

The 3 gold upkeep was the admiral too


Thaurlach

I suddenly need to play a Lokhir campaign feat. the Ogre party boat.


Ausar_TheVile

I love the idea of ogre pirates


Nigrinus

Yeah how?


kostandrea

What's the difficulty? I have a rough idea on how you did it but I'm curious as to the difficulty since it affects supply lines.


Ausar_TheVile

I just left it on normal


kostandrea

Makes sense you can't really do this on Very Hard and Legendary the supply line penalties are too big but you can still get them pretty cheap and that's always been the case with Black Arcs


[deleted]

IIRC upkeep reduction and supply lines stack multiplicatively. So instead of 3 you might spend 10 gold on L.


Bogdanov89

yea it makes them really fun to use