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‘United in our decision’ – Team GB footballers to take knee at Olympics

‘United in our decision’ – Team GB footballers to take knee at Olympics

Random_Machiavelli

Didn't realize they were doing team GB football again. Thought that was a one off at London 2012.


carpetbotherer

Only women's. Wales, Scotland and NI FAs rejected mens proposals for a GB team again, for the same reasons everyone except Wales and England rejected them in 2012


TIGHazard

We only got one in 2012 because it was a home games and the IOC expects you to send someone to compete in everything.


carpetbotherer

Yeah and it was a struggle to even get that agreed between Wales and England. Scotland and NI still refused in 2012


No-Scholar4854

I’m sure I’m going to regret this, but what we’re Scotland and NI’s objections?


fdgfdgfdgedfare

Fifa have never been that keen on the UK having 4 national teams - so a more regularly occurring GB team could create a precedent


No-Scholar4854

Ah, got it.


Badger1066

The more the racists scream, the more I'm up for this. Stop screeching and they'll stop kneeling.


reacharoundgirl

Racists will never stop screeching which is why this is so important. Our team is full of top lads and their cause is just - kneel away, boys. And screw anyone who tries to put our England team down. Unpatriotic, racist swines.


TIGHazard

My only problem - and it's not really a problem, I hope they continue doing the knee - is that Kick It Out has existed since the 90's and they've promoted it at matches but not recently. When there was that awful abuse during the England/Bulgaria Euro qualifying game, they started talking about the app on TV > Kick It Out provides a facility for football lovers to report incidents of abuse, both via its website, and through a mobile phone app. And they kept talking about it on every televised game until COVID hit, project restart happened and the footballers took the knee. At first I thought it was because there was no crowd, but they didn't mention it on the Euros games either. So preferably, do the knee and display information about the Kick It Out app on the advertising boards?


Badger1066

Exactly. They have my full support.


PixelBlock

I have a feeling racism and hooliganism will far outlive kneeling if that’s your metric, screeching or not.


Weeping_Angel72

I'm black and I think it's a disgrace. Do you even know that out of all the racist tweets sent after the match on Sunday, only 4% were from within the UK? Over 50% of them originated from countries such as India, Pakistan, and Middle Eastern countries such as Egypt, UAE and Iran. Out of 105 Instagram accounts that the Centre of Countering Digital Hate found to be racist towards Rashford, only 5 of them were from within the UK? Now you can say whatever you want, the mods can even ban this inconvenient post (because it's the truth and doesn't fit the agenda), but **the facts are the facts.** Even the response to the racism all across the country - including, get this - MailOnline readers, which as we know is Brexit Central, even those comments OVERWHELMINGLY voiced their disgust and opposition to the racism, mirroring the response from the VAST majority of the country. Britain is not a racist country. Downvote this comment to hell, I don't care. To the moderators: Ban me for speaking the truth, I don't care. I will never stand by and just allow a false narrative to be pushed, not when I have the ability to at least point people to the real truth!


SuprNntndoChalmers

Where did you get the 4% figure from?


reddit_police_dpt

It was reported on Newsnight on Monday or Tuesday


Hungry_Horace

Imgur.


turnipsurprises

Was the stuff on his mural done by people outside the UK? Was the systematic targeting of Raheem Sterling's tattoos done by people outside the UK? Was the Met stopping the two sprinters done by people outside the UK?


jmabbz

police say they don't think the vandalism was of a racist nature. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/police-say-vandalism-rashford-mural-21065063


MarxWasRacist

>Was the racist stuff on his mural *A picture of a penis


nutmeggerking

Didn't you hear, those fans booing the kneeling all tournament inside Wembley were actually coming from overseas!


Weeping_Angel72

a) Racist stuff on mural - I never saw any actual racist words on the mural, only words referring to his skill. If I am wrong I have no problem with conceding on this point, only to push back and ask: How many people would have defaced the mural, again, as a % of even the local population. b) Personally, I think Tattoos are abhorrent no matter what the skin colour. I've never liked them, I think it makes people look thuggish. Indeed I have just googled them and yeah, if I didn't know him as a footballer, regardless of his skin colour I would think he was some sort of mental criminal. c) I don't know about this Met stopping sprinters case. Though again - just because they are black that doesn't necessarily mean they were stopped because they were black. Again, if you can show proof to the contrary, I am more than happy to concede. Regardless, I'll say it again - as a Black man in this country who was born and bred here and has lived here for 31 years, you will never be able to convince me that Britain is a racist country. I would love to tell you about my upbringing, and how I first "became aware" that I was "different", but it is not entirely relevant to this post. Suffice to say - it was other black people who brought to my attention that I was "different", not white people.


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Weeping_Angel72

Oh get stuffed man, people are allowed to have opinions different to yours without being a troll. Grow up


nutmeggerking

Thinking people are thugs because of tattoos... i think you need to grow up


Vobat

How is it any different to thinking your a white supremacist because of a hair cut?


nutmeggerking

A hair cut?


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Weeping_Angel72

It may be ridiculous to you, and that's absolutely fine. You're entitled to your opinion, as I'm entitled to mine.


ArchdukeToes

What in the world is a 'mental criminal'?


NJH_in_LDN

A ‘mental criminal’ for having tattoos? The Victorians called, they want their views on personal presentation and morality back.


Weeping_Angel72

The guy literally has a gun tattooed on his leg


Tailend22

>"When I was two, my father died from being gunned down to death," he wrote in a message shared on Instagram. "I made a promise to myself [that] I would never touch a gun in my lifetime. I shoot with my right foot, so it has a deeper meaning [and is] still unfinished." Imagine kicking off about people not looking into the deeper context of a situation but not even doing it yourself


NJH_in_LDN

What’s your point. I’ve got a flower tattooed doesn’t mean I’m a gardener. Get a grip.


Wyndegarde

What’d you mean ? I have a Penrose Triangle tattoo and I’m an optical illusion that looks both 2d and 3D


ClausMcHineVich

Oi no he's got a point. My 18yo brother has the Master Sword tattooed on his back. 99% sure he's been running about with thugs smashing up our neighbours pots and unevenly cutting their grass


NJH_in_LDN

Of course! If that’s how this works I really need to get my Final Fantasy 7 materia slot combination tattooed on my arm so I can finally take on Emerald Weapon solo.


Sleepybear56

So why shouldn't they kneel if they want to?


Badger1066

>only 4% were from within the UK? So? Even if that's true, what's wrong with bringing that number down? I'm frankly embarrassed by some of the behaviour of our fans. Just look at the way Rashford and Saka have been treated. Until those people sort themselves out, let them kneel. If they find it annoying, well, we find their behaviour annoying. >Britain is not a racist country. I don't believe that we are, either. Not generally speaking, anyway. I think we're generally quite inclusive. That still doesn't change the fact that there's a proportion of the England fan base that need to reign it in.


Weeping_Angel72

>So? Even if that's true, what's wrong with bringing that number down? There is absolutely nothing wrong with bringing that number down, but that is not the point that is currently being made - by the way the coverage has been, you would think that it was a sizeable proportion of the country being racist. Remember, that 4% is not 4% of the population, it is 4% of total racist tweets sent that night. Twitter themselves have said that they have deleted "over 1000", so let's be generous and double that number to 2000 tweets. 4% of 2000 is 80 accounts. Now you might say "80 is too many", and certainly no level-minded person would disagree. But 80 people out of a total population of 65million? Let's be even more generous, and say only 25% of the total population are on social media (of course it's much much more), but that brings it to 16million. As a percentage that's 0.0005%. Come on.... it's hardly the basis for this false narrative that is being pushed.


Badger1066

> by the way the coverage has been, you would think that it was a sizeable proportion of the country being racist. I agree with that and it angers me, too. >but that is not the point that is currently being made This is where I disagree, or at the very least, think it doesn't matter. All the time our players are receiving the shit that they are, they deserve to take a knee until it stops. It's as simple as that in my mind.


Top_Excuse1680

Do you mind me asking where you live in the uk? Because I think that would make a huge difference in whether or not you believe it’s a racist country, living in the countryside vs a a fairly liberal city etc. also British racism isn’t anything like the Americans shouting the n word in the street at people, and it generally won’t get said to a persons face or it’s subtle or passed off as humour, I can assure you it’s there though having witnessed it on multiple occasions in multiple different areas.


Weeping_Angel72

Sure, I live in the South. Thames Valley area to be precise. I grew up in what would generally be described as a White, middle class neighbourhood. Primary school majority white, Church was all white, Secondary School was majority white, and I had the fortune of being part of different clubs and societies, all of which were predominantly white. I don't share experiences with other black people who claim: "I used to look at magazines and TV and be upset that nobody looked like me" or anything like that. Honestly speaking, it never really hit me that I was "different" until I started secondary school. It started in around Year 8 or 9 - where OTHER black kids would tell me things like "You're so white", "You're a coconut, you're a bounty". I didn't understand what these words meant, until I forced it out of someone. He was like "You don't behave like a black person, or seem to like the things that black people like". I still didn't understand - what has the colour of someone's skin got to do with their likes/dislikes? I went home and asked my Father (who grew up in Brixton in the 60s and early 70s). He told me (and I quote): Stay away from these kinds of people. There are a lot of Black people out there that think you should behave a certain way, like certain things, dress and talk a certain way because of the colour of your skin. Don't listen to them, and stay true to who you are. Carry on liking the things you like and don't listen to them. If they call you a coconut or whatever, smile and walk away, because if you start to hang around with them **they will eventually cause you to make bad decisions for your life**". Fast forward 15 years and honestly I see it clear as day: Those that make an issue over their own skin colour seem to have the most problems in life.


sheepinahat

I live in the countryside in Tory country. I spoke to one black lady in her 60s about the race issues at the minute and she said basically the same as you. England is not racist and it's all ridiculous. My best friend is Asian, and she's said the same, never experienced any racism. Leads me to personally believe a lot of the issues are more to do with class than race. I spent a long time working in prisons and I can tell you they're all the same. The colour is irrelevant, it's 100% culture, based on where and how they've grown up. I totally understand that due to racial history this leaves more black families in these 'lower' classes, but that's a different issue.


Weeping_Angel72

That is absolutely correct, it is a class issue, and that because of history (and just general immigration to be fair) that most black people fall within the lower class. An interesting disparity that doesn’t get talked about a lot is that of the difference between Africans and Caribbean’s: I’m personally a believer that a child needs both a Mother and a Father. I know that in this day and age that’s a VERY contentious thing to say (perhaps a more 2021 way of saying it is “2 parent household”, but for simplicity I will use Mum and Dad), but the evidence is clear that children overall do better when there’s a Mum and Dad around. Why is this relevant?: Because usually (not all, but most) African families when they come here, the African Dad has a sense of duty to come, work, do the right thing, and stand by the family at the very least until the children are grown. They emphasise and re-emphasise the importance of education and getting a career. More times than not this leads to the child following this advice and getting said career. Caribbean fathers on the other hand (again, not all but most) for whatever reason, don’t seem to preach this as much to their children, and in a lot of cases decide to abandon the family and go back to the Caribbean, or even end up in prison here in the UK. This is where the stereotype of fatherless black kids come from. This naturally leads to the children not valuing the education, leaving school with few qualifications, leaving them with few options in life - hopping from one dead-end job to another, or turn to a life of crime. This then of course means there is very little social mobility within the Caribbean community. Of course, there are always outliers. There are kids that have no Dads that end up doing well in life, and they should be commended for that because life is tough if you don’t have a guide and “shown the way” so to speak. But overall, the evidence really is clear that there is a positive correlation between having a father around the house and doing well in life. And vice versa.


_tpyo

> So? Even if that's true, what's wrong with bringing that number down? from a sociology point of view it's likely you get diminishing returns beyond a certain point. We can totally argue where that point is but 0% is likely an impossibility due to humanity's adoration of counter culture.


Badger1066

I'd take it a step further and say 0% is an *absolute* impossibility. There will always be one group of people who hate another group for some stupid reason like skin colour unfortunately. My take away point was only that it didn't matter how low that number was. There's no harm in addressing it.


reacharoundgirl

> I'm black and I think it's a disgrace. Ok 1 month old account whose main was banned and thinks he speaks on behalf of all black people 😂 There's no reason for anyone to take this seriously and waste time reading this.


Weeping_Angel72

Here we go, an emotional response to what was a post laid out with statistics and facts. Why do people ALWAYS have to get emotional? - At what point did I ever say "I speak for all Black people". This is precisely why this false narrative continues to get pushed, because nobody wants to LISTEN or READ, they just want to infer things that aren't there - I NEVER said I speak on behalf of all Black people, you have completely made that up INSTEAD of addressing the facts and statistics that I laid out. Why did you do that?


dbxp

Britain has its race issues but i think it's more between white and south Asian rather than white and black


xVocalTestx

4% is fine then. Job done, racism ended. Well done everyone.


SteeMonkey

As a black man


PixelBlock

Damned if you do mention it, damned if you don’t bring it up. Bit of a catch innit.


Weeping_Angel72

If I hadn't mentioned it they would ALL have assumed I was white and called me racist or defending racists. On the flip side, how many times do we hear the likes of David Lammy or Dianne Abbot saying "as a black man/woman...."


Ultrasonic-Sawyer

I mean the thing is with it, I'm less than a fan of the links it had to the BLM movement, particularly due to the groups that pushed themselves as representatives of the movement, but in the past year the "taking the knee" has largely transcended it. Perhaps due to all the shouting about it, perhaps due to those doing it making it about racism and not BLM. It still feels a bit clunky to see, almost like that south park episode on it but realistically it causes no harm. Bloody let em do it, if people want to get angry at a little gesture like that then so be it. It's their own life they are making miserable by letting things like that anger them so.


UhhMakeUpAName

> I mean the thing is with it, I'm less than a fan of the links it had to the BLM movement, particularly due to the groups that pushed themselves as representatives of the movement, but in the past year the "taking the knee" has largely transcended it. I'd say that in the wake of George Floyd's murder, the BLM movement itself already transcended its origins. A general anti-racist (and anti-police-corruption) protest movement occurred there that just took on the BLM name. Most people who talk about BLM these days are talking about that, and probably don't know or care about the "founders". It seems that mostly the only people who still talk about that small origin are the ones looking for a way to put it down, but the origin is mostly irrelevant to what it is today.


naryn

>Most people who talk about BLM these days are talking about that, and probably don't know or care about the "founders". Most people in the UK if asked about it would point towards the actions that happened in the UK which were incredibly unpopular. Things like defacing war memorials, attacking the police, trying to tear down statues of figures like Gandhi and Churchill, shouting slogans like *Don't Shoot* and *Defund the Police* that made no sense at all here BLM moved past simple don't be racist the moment they started in this country and people *do* remember these things. There's a reason why footballing organisations have tried to distance themselves on paper to it.


ParkingMachine3534

The problem is calling everyone who disagrees with the gesture as racist.


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ParkingMachine3534

Is it. Or is it that calling people racist makes you feel good. People have a legitimate issue with the political baggage of BLM, and when they raised it (in this case by booing), they were shut down as racists.


cultish_alibi

And do people think that the England team are espousing all the politics of BLM? Taking a knee wasn't invented by BLM, it was started by Colin Kapernick, an NFL player, to protest racism in America. So the political baggage of BLM doesn't really have anything to do with it, unless you really want it to, so that you have an excuse to boo the people doing it.


ParkingMachine3534

If I made a gesture, in the same place, at the same time, in the same way in solidarity of a political organisation, with the name of the political organisation written in place of my name for six months, then all of a sudden, when said political organisation was discredited as being antisemitic, and had unpopular aims, I carried on with said gesture, at the same time, at the same place, in the same way, but with a different shirt on, and said it was now for a different reason. Would you believe me? And Colin Kapaernick was protesting the national anthem of a country that he believed to not represent him due to systematic racism. Do you think that would go down any better?


cultish_alibi

> with the name of the political organisation written in place of my name for six months Sorry, I didn't realise the England team changed its name to BLM. I watched the Euros and everything, I must be really unobservant.


ParkingMachine3534

This all happened in the football league last season. The players had their names replaced with Black Lives Matter on their shirts.


dtr9

If, instead of taking the gesture made by players as being for the reason given by the players, you've taken the effort to go down a Q-anon style rabbit hole of following the internet connections that make it about marxist plots and the overthrow of capitalism... ...it's because you've gone looking for a reason to say you're against it. What started as sitting during the anthem was changed to kneeling specifically because athletes did not want to disrespect servicemen or the flag, then changed again to not occur during the anthem, again to specifically demonstrate that it is not an anti-patriotic symbol. The athletes keep changing the gesture in a genuine desire to avoid disrespect while trying to make the point about anti-racism. Anyone still trying to dig up spurious objections even after these multiple concessions by the athletes is clearly and obviously going to object whatever the athletes do. The reason for that is equally clear and obvious, as is their fundamental dishonesty and cowardice in trying to present it as being about something else. Particularly when that "something else" is off-the-wall internet shitposting about footballers wanting to destroy our way of life.


ParkingMachine3534

If I made a gesture, in the same place, at the same time, in the same way in solidarity of a political organisation, with the name of the political organisation written in place of my name for six months, then all of a sudden, when said political organisation was discredited as being antisemitic, and had unpopular aims, I carried on with said gesture, at the same time, at the same place, in the same way, but with a different shirt on, and said it was now for a different reason. Would you believe me?


dtr9

if you'd supported Oxfam, been totally open that you were supporting Oxfam, maybe even done some campaigning and fundraising for Oxfam, saying you were doing it because you care about alleviating poverty... Oh, then the leadership of Oxfam is totally discredited, guilty of complete moral failure, atrocious sexual exploitation, etc... And afterwards you carry on with the same behaviour, saying you're still committed to trying to alleviate poverty, maybe even still supporting Oxfam... Yes, I'd believe you. Because it would be frankly malicious of me to ascribe the clear failings and awful behaviour of some of those organising the movement that you support to the supporters of said movement. Some people did try to find a way to believe that though. The Oxfam failure was used by some as an excuse to try to put a stop to foreign aid, the support of aid charities with public money, etc. The thing is, we know the people using the discrediting of Oxfam's leadership to justify ending foreign aid were already against public money being used for foreign aid. It's simple justification. When there's something we don't like, we latch on to justifications and ascribe them all importance because they reinforce our sense that we're right to feel the way we do. I understand what drew people to support Oxfam, and would absolutely believe that those still supporting it are doing so for their stated reasons. I believe they are motivated by a desire to take action to alleviate global poverty. Just as I understand what drew people to BLM as the broadest and most public global anti-racism movement in the wake of George Floyd's murder. I believe they are motivated by a desire to take a public stand against racism. I also understand why people go out of their way to find justifications for their antipathy to any public anti-racist movement...


nutmeggerking

There is taking issue with something and then there is booing. If you boo players taking the knee AFTER they have made it very clear why they are taking the knee (as in, addressing those supposed BLM concerns of some), then yes, you might be racist. No one said you can't think one way or the other but if you are going to audibly boo someone else's quiet protest, you are going to look like you support whatever the protest is against. So when the England players say they are taking a knee against racism, booing them makes you look like a racist.


ParkingMachine3534

So if they have to believe the reasons for kneeling, surely you have to believe their reasons for booing.


Argikeraunos

Of course they have reasons for booing; they don't like to see gestures of solidarity between races, because they are racist. Players kneeling on a pitch has nothing to do with the twitter operator of the official BLM account, nor does it have anything to do with whoever is in charge of the BLM organization in the US, both things you're using to deflect all up and down this thread. It has to do with those players saying that racism is unacceptable. If you're booing that, you're showing what side you're on.


ParkingMachine3534

They're doing exactly the same thing as when it was connected to BLM, the political organisation. Nothing changed. Which says they're supporting BLM, not anti racism. When the gesture was changed to a banner, it was met with applause. Which says they're against BLM, not racists. So keep calling a third of the country racist, hope it makes you feel good.


Argikeraunos

You're still talking about BLM; I'm talking about players taking a knee on the pitch. Stop deflecting: when players kneel on the pitch to protest racism, do you feel attacked? Do you feel like *your conduct* is being called into question? Why do you think that is? Answer without referring to the American political organization. People who boo kneeling players cannot distinguish themselves or their motives from the people who booed Jesse Owens or the black-power 1968 salute. Today, we call those people racists. I'm not sure what else to do with the booers today.


dbxp

Booing isn't how you raise nuanced political issues


ParkingMachine3534

It's the only avenue they gave though. They could try making their case on reddit, but reddit doesn't like it and your comments get hidden.


Darzok

Or you just want to watch the fucking sport with out all this political bullshit.


denk2mit

Asking for people not to be racist isn't political, it's basic human decency


nutmeggerking

Lol clearly you don't, otherwise you wouldn't fucking boo. If you can't even stop yourself from interrupting something that takes 10 seconds, there's something wrong with you


qtx

Bullshit. You are trying to dictate how and when they are allowed to protest. That's the sign of a racist. If they stop doing the kneeling you will find a new way to be against it. At least man up and admit you're a racist so we can just move on and ignore you.


ParkingMachine3534

Have I ever said they can't kneel? All I'm saying is that maybe people have an issue, and shouting racist at them isn't helping.


Dragonrar

> If they stop doing the kneeling you will find a new way to be against it. I don’t think so for most people against it, an issue is it’s so connected to the American Black Lives Matter movement (I think kneeling took off in recent times with the George Floyd protests following his murder?) and by extension all the culture war ‘white privilege’ style rhetoric which the BLM movement in America push is inextricably connected.


ParkingMachine3534

This right here. Kneeling was introduced to the football league last season specifically in support of BLM.


red--6-

>[I'm not a racist or anything](https://imgur.com/gkO9gtI)


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RtHonMember4Reddit

\> selected three captains – one from England, Wales and Scotland each – for the tournament Embarrassing. What about NI?


duckwantbread

It's amazing how many smug comments you've got from people that don't realise Team GB is just a nickname and are calling you an idiot even though you're correct in saying Northern Irish athletes are allowed to represent Team GB.


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RtHonMember4Reddit

If you can't complete the set then don't try. By choosing an incomplete set they highlight their exclusion of NI. Not to mention the absurdity of there being 3 captains, from a practical perspective.


Patch86UK

Northern Ireland doesn't have any footballers in the 2020 Olympics, so making a Northern Irish footballer a Team GB captain would be quite the trick. It's also worth noting that a sizeable fraction of NI athletes choose to compete for Ireland rather than Team GB. For example, of the 7 NI hockey players who are going to the 2020 Olympics, 5 of them are playing for Ireland.


denk2mit

> It's also worth noting that a sizeable fraction of NI athletes choose to compete for Ireland rather than Team GB If you understand Northern Irish football, you realise that there is a very good reason for that.


creamyjoshy

Isn't the nickname "Team GB" already exclusionary?


RtHonMember4Reddit

Absolutely.


carpetbotherer

It's actually called 'Team GB and Northern Ireland' if you give it its full title, which no-one ever bothers to say


creamyjoshy

For sure, but there's already a term for that grouping: the UK


carpetbotherer

Bit weird I agree. Bet some consultant got paid a lot to come up with that name too. Maybe it's a historic thing.


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lemon_cake_or_death

Yes they are. The team is officially called the Great Britain and Northern Ireland Olympic Team.


BlokeyBlokeBloke

Team GB is the brand name used since 1999 by the British Olympic Association (BOA) for their Great Britain and Northern Ireland Olympic team


meshuggahio

>GB


duckwantbread

Team GB is a nickname, the official name is "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" (although Northern Irish people can also represent Ireland if they want). The actual reason there isn't a NI captain is because no Northern Irish players were selected.


BlokeyBlokeBloke

Team GB is the brand name used since 1999 by the British Olympic Association (BOA) for their Great Britain and Northern Ireland Olympic team


lemon_cake_or_death

'Team GB' is a nickname. They're officially called the Great Britain and Northern Ireland Olympic Team.


EmeraldJunkie

I don’t know if you’re aware, but Team GB is just a nickname. I guess you might’ve missed it but Team GB is just a nickname, not the actual name, and that the actual name is actually the Great Britain and Northern Ireland Olympic team, and not Team GB, as thats a nickname.


Khrusway

Who you calling up from the Northern Ireland team


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Veridas

Brilliant, ain't it?


CountManDude

> The fragile “England footballers are Marxists” boomers The past 24 hours have been an education in that /r/ukpolitics is *really* the "They throw you in jail just for saying you're English" sub.


ParkingMachine3534

For using a gesture introduced in support of an organisation that today professed support for a communist dictatorship who shut down the internet to quell dissent.


Surprise-Walrus

If the Instagram account 'blklivesmatter' thinks that the embargo of Cuba is unjust then obviously team GB is marxist. Are you aware that people who agree on one thing might disagree on other things? Similarly are you aware that owning a domain name that is a popular slogan doesnt mean that you speak for everyone who uses the slogan?


reacharoundgirl

I love how you're spamming that fairy tale ferociously hoping it will catch on. You're unpatriotic and hate the English football team and probably hate your own country too, we get it.


ParkingMachine3534

A third of the country don't support kneeling. Do they all hate the country too? Where's the fairy tale? The kneeling being introduced to the country as being in support of BLM? Or BLM today releasing a statement in support of the Cuban dictatorship?


Veridas

>third of the country don't support kneeling. Do they all hate the country too? I think they hate what the country could become if open expression of support for racial equality became the norm.


ParkingMachine3534

If a full third of the country were racist do you honestly think that any of this entire situation would happen?


Veridas

Yes. Was that a trick question?


NathanNance

Thank heavens for that, looks like racism will be well and truly solved once the Olympics come to an end.


dublem

When will they learn that the best solution is to do nothing!


Norpar

Kneeling and doing nothing are essentially the same thing, but the former you can give yourself a pat on the back for how you're saving the world and so morally superior


dublem

Simply through kneeling players have kept a topic that would otherwise have fallen out of the news cycle (if it made it there to begin with) into a regular dialog that has touched the whole country. The animosity generated by them doing so has been incredibly useful now that things have boiled over into explicit outwards racism to show that this is an underlying problem with the country, as opposed to the temporary minor matter some are trying ro present it as. We can point back to weeks and weeks of hostility to anti-racism and say "See? This national attitude breeds the contempt that gets unleashed at times like now". Hell, even Boris and Patel are catching serious flack for their hypocritical attitudes to racism that were only revealed through their responses to..? Players kneeling. Without that, their empty cynical soundbites now would be received as entirely uncontroversial. Instead, Boris' history of past racism is plastered all across the papers, and the Tories as a whole are under scrutiny for their tendancy towards rather than against racism. Awareness is impact, and high profile people using their platform to voice important truths to power makes far more of a difference than you could ever hope to as a nameless redditor by doing whatever activism you think counts as actually doing something. Feel free to prove me wrong though, I'm eager to hear how you've transformed the fight against racism in a way that's gotten ahold of national attention and entitles you to deem the objectively significant efforts of others as essentially the same as nothing. But something tells me I'm going to be waiting a while...


denk2mit

Is your takeaway from the past week really that 'no, really, our footballers should stop protesting against racism now'?


NathanNance

It depends what you mean by "protesting against racism" - I support the continuation of the existing campaigns (e.g. Kick it Out, No Room for Racism, Show Racism the Red Card), but believe the hysteria over taking the knee and online abuse should stop, yes. Wall-to-wall coverage every time a few moronic kids in south Asia and the Middle East leave racist comments is just daft and counter-productive.


denk2mit

> every time a few moronic kids in south Asia and the Middle East leave racist comments Right >[The latest arrest was made by Cheshire Police, who have arrested a 42-year-old man from Runcorn](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57848761)


NathanNance

>Five people arrested over racist abuse of England players Do you really think five morons, out of a country of 67 million people, tweeting something nasty are worthy of days of news coverage? Does that really justify this narrative we're being fed that the UK is somewhere which has a serious issue with racism?


black_zodiac

yes, its been eye opening. the amount of outrage and coverage over a handful of tweets, if true, is staggering.


denk2mit

Do you really think that five arrests equates to five people behind it all?


NathanNance

Possibly not, but equally I've not seen any proof that there was any more than that from the UK either. Every analysis I've seen of the number of tweets/IG comments from UK accounts puts it in the single figures. It really is a storm in a teacup.


Mrfurball_II

Ok but what is your proof that this is not from the UK you can spout conspiracy theories all you want but in reality until they analyse the data ip addresses login activity etc no one will know


jonnyhaldane

You mean it isn’t already after the Euros? Fuck sake


NathanNance

Nobody could have predicted it, but it turns out that an obsessive and disproportionate focus on race at the start of each and every football match actually led trolls to leave *more* racist abuse than normal.


denk2mit

Victim blaming much?


Hungry_Check_9153

All racists ever: stop making a fuss about racism, stop with the protests, the marches etc. Footballers and other etc: find a non-violent non-intrusive way to protest racism, 15 seconds of knee before international games, which don't happen that often. All racists: stop that shit too.


koalazeus

How is it obsessive or disproportionate? How can you blame the negative behaviour of trolls on anyone but themselves? There have been many protests and actions that caused annoyance to racists that have improved people's lives and have been instances of doing the right thing. Did Rosa Parks stop all racism? Did doing what she did make things better? Should she not have done it? Don't get annoyed by gestures of anti-racism it isn't good for you.


NathanNance

> How is it obsessive or disproportionate? Because the event that instigated it has nothing to do with the UK, and probably had nothing do with race in the first place. Police brutality is of course tragic to the victims, but it is not the only form of discrimination/abuse that is happening in the world. So why exactly do the English football team make it their mission to protest that, whilst doing nothing about all the other issues happening worldwide?


koalazeus

They're protesting against racism now. I think I've heard they've made that clear now. So worry about the racism if you're interested in what they're saying. I guess they felt passionate about that issue in particular.


NathanNance

If that's true, then they really can't make their mind up. Last time I heard it was "all forms of racism **and** discrimination". It used to be explicitly linked to Black Lives Matter, now it's apparently got nothing to do with Black Lives Matter. It means something different every day of the week, or so it seems.


koalazeus

I don't know the exact details, but if that's your only umbrage then racism has to take precedence.


NathanNance

> racism has to take precedence Why?


koalazeus

Because racism is much worse.


NeuralTactics

"The racism will continue until complaints about racism stop"


NathanNance

"Shoving race-based identity politics down people's throats at the start of every football match, for no discernible reason other than the fact that one black man was a victim of police brutality in USA, encourages trolls who feed off notoriety to leave even more racist abuse".


NeuralTactics

Please keep telling black people what forms of protest against racism are acceptable to the white people.


NathanNance

Is it only black people who have been taking the knee? That's news to me.


NeuralTactics

Where did I say 'only'? Oh that's right, I didn't. Instead, you thought it'd be a good idea to imagine that I used the word 'only', then respond to that imaginary version of my comment. Though I do sincerely hope it's not a case of dementia, nor bad eyesight.


NathanNance

By saying "please keep telling black people...", you implied that my criticism was directed at something which was done solely or primarily by the black community. Else why mention them at all?


NeuralTactics

Do you feel like you've won with your semantic nitpicking? I do hope so, can't have you feeling otherwise can we.


neolib1488

​ It's amazing how the entire UK political news cycle has been turned into who, where and when someone is getting down on one knee. I'm not even against it, but why is it 90% of the headlines I now see?


ignoranceandapathy42

Happy for them - startling that racism is still so prevalent in our society. They should continue to do so until the racist abuse against players stops.


BoopingBurrito

>startling that racism is still so prevalent in our society. Disappointing yes, but anyone startled by the stuff thats recently happened hasn't been paying any attention whats going on in society over the last few years.


45h4rd

Thank god we have kneeling to finally put a stop to racism. Totally not divisive and counterproductive. Anyone not taking the knee should be thrown off the team. RACISTS!


BeBetterToEachOther

Yes, opposing a gesture against racism probably makes you either: a) A racist b) Someone who listens to popular racists or gets fed content from racists in their feeds, and therefore thinks it's about some marxist movement to have the police arrest you for just saying you're english these days or some rubbish. c) Ignorant/Unaware. Not in a mean way, not everyone can be informed about every thing.


45h4rd

Do you ever get tired defending multimillionaires that pretend to be sad at nasty words while partying on a private jet to the Turks and Caicos Islands? Such difficult lives they must live. Good job they have people like you defending them.


Mrfurball_II

Do you ever get tired of having to defend the billionaires in the tory party at any cost


Anasynth

It’s put a massive divide between racists and everyone else.


troopski

It went from taking a stand (or a knee) during the American national anthem (which was seen as incredibly controversial) to the ref blowing whistle for FA sanctioned gesture politics. Surely its lost its meaning a bit? Taking a knee isn't controversial, it doesn't mean the same thing here right? Just seems oddly uniform. Is there anything more creative that can be done?


Wulfram77

Its got enough meaning for people to boo it


troopski

I don't know why people boo. Might be because they're racist, might be because they don't want to think about politics at a football match *shrug*, might be because they think its associated with something other than racism. I dunno. Football fans are wild. A lot teams bood at each others national anthems. I don't get it.


ChristinaM1

What is ‘gesture politics’? I don’t think that anyone is saying that ‘taking the knee’ automatically eradicates racism. It’s symbolic. >is there anything more creative that can be done? Like what? I’m pretty sure that whatever people do to protest against racism it is always going to be criticised by a certain subsection of the population. Because these people have already made up their minds that they don’t like seeing people protest racism, which is essentially a way of life in this country for a lot of people.


Tawnysloth

'Gesture politics' is a term Priti Patel threw out which means nothing, she just doesn't want to call them 'protests' or 'demonstrations' because those are widely accepted activities that people support. But if she can re-label basic civil liberties with dismissive and reductive names like 'gesture politics' she can get useful idiots to follow suit and continue her agenda of dismantling our right to assembly and protest.


blahblahblah80

The Millwall approach was universally applauded, and sends a clear strong message. A team uniting behind a banner that spells out exactly what is being united against, no ambiguity, no lost in translation, no route for criticism.


AlterEdward

It doesn't mean anything beyond "racism is bad, and we understand and support you", and frankly I'm tired of the right's desperate attempts obfuscate that, and to throw people off the scent. It just demonstrates even more why it's needed.


troopski

I'm not a man of the right, just seems very close to state sanctioned protests that can just be ignored. "Here is your allotted 4 seconds of kneeling time, granted by the FA". It isn't really taking a stand is it. When literally everyone feels obliged to do it, doesn't it lose its meaning a bit? I could be wrong, and tbh the disgusting racism that has been thrown around since the match has made me more sympathetic to the cause.


BeBetterToEachOther

Well when it gets ignored it won't have any purpose. As long as it keeps pissing off and outing the racists it's purpose remains.


Falcahtas741

Virtue signalling loses its meaning if you can't use it to show how morally superior you are.


AlterEdward

Replying to a post about how the right throw around ulterior motives for taking the knee by throwing around a clichéd ulterior motive for taking the knee. Smart move.


NathanNance

Aren't you aware that a few kids in India left a bit of racist abuse to England's black players? If that's not justification for the gesture to continue forever more, then I don't know what is.


dbxp

I agree, I have no problem with taking the knee but it's lost the original meaning. The original idea was excluding one self from the national anthem as it didn't represent black athletes, it was a form of protest. When the protest becomes the official standard performance then it's no longer a protest. It's like an officially arranged and approved protest march, at some point it just becomes a street party.


troopski

This was my point, perhaps not well articulated.


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Lukeno94

The footballers don't, because they're all young pros (bar the 3 that are allowed to be over 23). Other athletes, yes.


carpetbotherer

Countries set their own prizes for athletes. A gold for GB is worth £0, whereas Indonesia for example pays their athletes £289,000 for gold. USA £18,000. Google 'Olympic pay for medals countries' or something similar for the full list of what countries pay


Googlebug-1

They could do another job that pays better. They choose to do the job knowing what the pay is like. Fairly sure pay isn’t discouraging many elite athletes perusing a sporting career in their younger years. To then likely go onto another sporting career after they pass their best.


TIGHazard

I suggest you watch the new BBC 'Gold Rush' documentary. We went from 1996 Atlanta with our athletes having no financial backing, to John Major launching 'UK Sport' to make sure we actually fund athletes via the Lottery. https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m000xpmd/gold-rush-our-race-to-olympic-glory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Sport


Roddy0608

Why though? All I can think is virtue signalling.


Hungry_Horace

That says rather more about you than it does about them.


oCerebuso

Citizen, have you taken the thrice daily knee today? If not be awarded 10 racist points. Keep tuned for further American gesture politics. Call be nostalgic but I remember when you just had to just not treat people of different races differently.


Hungry_Horace

I remember a little further back than you, when you just had to not call people darkie or Paki, but could still tell jokes about minorities on national tv. Things change. Nostalgia is overrated.


oCerebuso

I remember when someone was set in fire for being the wrong skin colour in Tottenham.


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oCerebuso

So the attempt to remove taking the knee away from BLM continues. OK, good luck but for me it still associated with a race based political movement and those have no place in todays society. Moving along then those that do this are they doing to protest all racism or just anti black? Are Asians in people's minds this time? Secondly, kneeling is an act of submission. Who are they submitting to?


mobjusticeCT

You should take a stand and boycott the Olympics.


SuperVillain85

>Are Asians in people’s minds at the time? Yes, we fall into the category of: > racism and discrimination in all its forms, standing in unity and solidarity with all those whose lives are affected.


hlycia

Taking the knee didn't originate with BLM, it started out a protest by Colin Kaepernick and was adopted by other sports people as well as BLM.


NeuralTactics

Also https://globalnews.ca/news/3769534/martin-luther-king-jr-take-a-knee-history/


hlycia

Yes, technically Colin Kaepernick reintroduced/re-popularised the form of protest rather than inventing it from scratch.


TIGHazard

IIRC he actually asked a war veteran 'how do I protest without anyone saying it is disrespectful to the anthem', and that was the response.


hlycia

Yes, it kind of suggests that all the claims that taking the knee is disrespectful are basically arguing that any protest against racism is disrespectful.


ChristinaM1

It’s because Colin Kaepernick refused to stand for the US national anthem


RosemaryFocaccia

> Secondly, kneeling is an act of submission. Who are they submitting to? Who do *you* think they submitting to? I've never got an answer to that question.


Existing_Currency257

> Secondly, kneeling is an act of submission. Who are they submitting to? Oh give over.


studentfeesisatax

It's just anti racism, that's it. Can't wait for you to accuse the Queen of showing support for BLM & marxism, when she has people kneel for her :) After all, if context and what people that kneel says about a symbol, doesn't matter ,then it must mean it has a universal meaning that always means the same. As that's the only reason why anti kneelers keep going on about BLM and Marxism, despite what the England team has said, despite what GB team has said, and so on. As it requires you to stubbornly ignore what they are saying, as you refuse to listen to them. Even GB news aren't being as nutty about this anymore, nor is some tory MP's (like Mercer and Baker). As polls show the vast majority of people support the England team and their decision.