T O P

Daily Megathread - 16/07/2021

Daily Megathread - 16/07/2021

ukpolbot

[New Megathread is here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/omk2a2/daily_megathread_18072021/)


ukpolbot

[New Megathread is here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/olxu3n/daily_megathread_17072021/)


ukpolbot

[New Megathread is here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/olojgo/daily_megathread_16072021/)


ukpolbot

Megathread is being rolled over, please refresh your feed in a few minutes.


redrhyski

I guess double vaccination isn't good enough after all...


AlwaysALighthouse

This fucking government and creating colour coded scales only to undermine them by introducing new categories between the scales, name a more iconic fucking duo.


chrispepper10

We have a France tier now?


Underscore_Blues

Green Green watchlist Amber France Amber watchlist Red


Sooperfreak

It’s ineffective and overcomplicated. Why would we expect anything else?


thecarterclan1

It's the White tier


Scantcobra

"Dad/Mum, what was the UK like before England won the World Cup in 2022?" Don't know what I would tell them, tbh.


DukeofWellington1815

I defend the government more than most here, but the new rules for France are just stupid. They should introduce a tier between Amber and Red for this kind of stuff instead to avoid confusion. - Green - same - Amber - new rules as of 19th - Red - Amber old rules - Black - Old red list


[deleted]

[удалено]


DukeofWellington1815

Civil discourse on ukpol at its finest. I defend them **more than most here** because a lot of the time, people jump the gun hugely here. Read the comments of any independent (and increasingly guardian) column that is posted on here and you’ll see what I’m getting at. I don’t blindly defend the government and I never have.


thecarterclan1

It's going to become last year's tier restrictions all over again isn't it, just a confusing hodge-pogde clusterfuck of inconsistency


DukeofWellington1815

I don’t see any reason why my four tier system would need any additional steps. It goes from straightforward (Green) to nuclear (Black) with appropriate steps in the middle. There shouldn’t need to be any more than that. Needless to say, this government loves to list every single exemption for everything to close loopholes (ironically opening up two more for every one they close) so no doubt there will be 50 million different tiers by the end of the summer.


thecarterclan1

"Double-vaccinated travellers returning to England from France will still have to quarantine for 10 days from Monday" - BBC Breaking But France is on the Amber list? I thought double-vaccinated travellers didn't have to quarantine when returning from Amber List countries from Monday. Unless France is going Red? Or is France remaining Amber, and this is an exception to the rule just for France?


chrispepper10

Nah they've just created a new tier specifically for France alone. Incredible really.


s123456h

Surely this decisive government hasn’t dithered and delayed on the pandemic, they would never do that.


DukeofWellington1815

France on a sort of halfway house between red and amber - still have to quarantine even if vaxxed, just not in a hotel.


JavaTheCaveman

La merde a frappé le ventilateur


compte-a-usageunique

t'as fait quoi?


dratsaab

Il a chié dans le ventilateur, évidemment.


JavaTheCaveman

C’est une nuit de vendredi normale chez nous


JavaTheCaveman

C’est une nuit de vendredi normale chez nous


JavaTheCaveman

J’ai fait rien. On a metté des nouvelles restrictions à ceux qui veulent retourner de la France au Royaume-Uni.


compte-a-usageunique

On est dans la merde quoi! C'est trop tard pour un certain ex-animateur...


Hungry_Horace

Putain de merde.


SwanBridge

I've officially lost the sun in my garden now. Don't feel tanned enough.


HotIncrease

These billionaires are definitely up to something with all this space stuff, is the world really that fucked? Meteor? I don’t like it


BristolShambler

Germany is underwater and Northwest America is on fire. The writing’s on the wall.


Scantcobra

Everything is going according to plan, soon they shall learn to fear us *again*.


SwanBridge

*Do you believe in life after love?*


SwanBridge

r/throawaylien Aliens are coming on Sunday 😎


convertedtoradians

What on Earth is that even about? I invested about two minutes trying to figure it out and I don't think it was nearly enough.


SwanBridge

Some larper on Reddit said aliens would disclose themselves to mankind on 18th July 2021, way back in 2013. It has developed a small cult following. Go to the pinned post on resources to read the original post if you are invested.


w0wowow0w

what the heck lmao, that sub is great. cant believe i almost didn't find out aliens are coming in 2 days. i don't even know how seriously to take some of the posters there and whether it's just hardcore circlejerk or not.


SwanBridge

If you have any passing interest in aliens or ufology it is really good. Nice community as well, with everyone from sceptics to true believers, but little tension. JULY AITEE Edit: I'm 99.999% sure they won't come, but it is still fun!


KillerDr3w

I've heard a number of people say similar things recently. The simple facts are, it would be exponentially easier to revert any damage we've done to *this* planet than it would be to either create a permanent livable habitat in space or on a planet, or to actually terraform a planet like Mars. The same goes for meteors. It would be easier to divert or stop it, or create a bunker than it would be to move into space.


100basepairs

People seem to think we are on the brink of terraforming the shit out of Mars overnight.


KillerDr3w

I think it's a 1000+ year project. Capitalism won't wait that long so I'm not sure how it will ever happen.


illinoyce

Capitalism ain’t going nowhere bro


SwanBridge

Have you not heard about all the underground bunkers from QAnon? /s


psc1988

I've been to Denver international airport. That shit is suspicious. Triangles everywhere....


SwanBridge

I blame the Freemasons... >!Even as one!<


KillerDr3w

If I was rich, I have to say, I'd have a bunker somewhere, like some of the uplands in Wales. I don't think I'd ever actually use it, but I suspect my kids or grand-kids might. Climate change is going to kick off some major issues in the future and I honestly think a populist worse than Trump will take advantage of it.


wellfeelingbishop

I live in a stone barn in the middle of the cambrian mountains and my nearest neighbour is a mile away. I'm not a prepper but with your comment realise I fit the bill for one. House can run completely off grid, solar and batter with a septic tank, a borehole and a wood fired boiler and have 2 rifles. Bout as ready as I'll ever be for the apocalypse. Wouldn't notice up here anyway.


SwanBridge

The future looks bloody bleak. Children of Men was essentially a documentary. But with Priti Patel as PM blowing up all the dinghies in the channel with the environmental refugees, whilst we subsist on cabbage and potato soup, with the odd kipper if we are a party member.


messibusiness

Imagine Rishi’s PS9 giveaway though... Imagine how good Cyberpunk will be 😍


SwanBridge

All hail Rishi, the eternal chancellor!!!


SnewsleyPies

If there were something on its way to destroy the planet, for them to know about it, it would necessarily have to be observable from Earth. Anything that's observable from Earth is (wait for it) _observable, from Earth, by anyone on Earth_. They are spending their money on showy big-ticket projects, that's all.


psc1988

>observable, from Earth, by anyone on Earth. There's ALOT of very keen very skilled astronomers as well. Some of the imagery they have of spy satellites is damn impressive.


dratsaab

Have you read Seveneves? It's like that, except the survival of the human species comes down entirely to Musk, Branson, Bezos and whoever they bring with them. And hoping they brought spaceships that can connect to each other.


HotIncrease

I haven’t read it, sounds interesting though I hope I get stuck in the Tim Martins spaceship


dratsaab

>I haven’t read it, sounds interesting though > If you do read it, stop 2/3 of the way through. It's in 3 acts and the third is utterly unnecessary.


emergencyexit

Literally finished it this week. I felt a bit the same, but the end is kind of fun if both rushed and meandering. What really gets me is how you make the time gap there, after someone says the most provocative thing in history without anyone throwing them out an airlock.


emergencyexit

Threechuds There's just no part 2 because they filled the ISS with gold and share certificates


Jeansybaby

Bulgaria bans travellers from the UK due to coronavirus concerns.


s123456h

Nothing more us Northern Irish love than being told by English redditors that we should just get over the death of our loved ones, forget about those who suffer daily from disabilities and forget about justice because Boris considers the matter closed. If this government loves ‘will of the people’ so much then put the amnesty to the NI public in a plebiscite and let them see percentages not seen since the Gibraltar joint sovereignty referendum.


adenkraytar

The average English person would want to see Gerry Adam's head on a spike before they changed their mind on this.


wellfeelingbishop

Why not both?


adenkraytar

Who goes first?


psc1988

Gotta cut both ways. No pardons for paramilitaries


s123456h

Couldn’t agree more, and that’s exactly what most people in NI other than the criminals themselves would say.


psc1988

Exactly the whole thing is a shitty affair. It's almost like wars fucking suck, asymmetric ones even more so.


SwanBridge

I think that prosecutions against British soldiers who committed war crimes should continue. But likewise I think the same for the IRA and Loyalist Paramilitaries. Fuck them all, such a shit show. It is nice to see all political parties united for once in Northern Ireland over the proposed amnesty.


s123456h

Won’t disagree with you there, very few in NI would.


compte-a-usageunique

I don't agree with the decision to end Troubles prosecutions, why is the Army seemingly held to the same standards as paramilitary groups? When I learnt about Bloody Sunday for the first time, I felt utterly disgusted.


Bibemus

There's a fair amount of us English who remember that shit coming over here who are none too impressed with the idea either, I assure you.


Kross_B

https://twitter.com/davidheniguk/status/1416087306029740036?s=21 > The GB News saga is so far most reminiscent of niche student marxist organisations which almost immediately split between purists and those with a tenuous grip on reality. Which isn't surprising given the culture war prominence of the spiked crowd with exactly this background.


TheFlyingHornet1881

> The GB News saga is so far most reminiscent of niche student marxist organisations which almost immediately split between purists and those with a tenuous grip on reality. Did this person attend the same uni at the same time as me?


sleepymarsupiel

I'm fairly sure this is every university experience ever. I went back for my MA a ~decade after graduating and it was still the same stupid mess of infighting and splinter groups.


psc1988

>reminiscent of niche student marxist organisations which almost immediately split between purists and those with a tenuous grip on reality. Like labour for the last few years then. Horseshoe theory; alot to be said for it.


AnalyticContinuation

Andrew Neil breaks cover: https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1416080461709840389 > Start ups are fraught and fractious. @GBNEWS is no exception. But the news channel is finding its feet and has a great future. Watch this space.


Kross_B

“~~Bullet Club~~ GB News is fine”


SporkofVengeance

Everything is fine. There is no cause for alarm. Do not mention The Event.


WretchedShart

Waiting for him to post the [new line-up of presenters sans Guto Hari](https://www.history.com/.image/ar_4:3%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_1200/MTU3ODc4NjAyOTgzNDE3NTY3/stalin-composite-16x9.jpg)


Bibemus

"...said Neil, before tucking into a plate of escargot washed down with a fine Bordeaux."


AnalyticContinuation

Bordeaux with escargot? What kind of heathen are you?!


dratsaab

Everyone knows you need a dry white to counteract the strong garlic in escargot!


Ivebeenfurthereven

yeah but when's he coming back lmao


stinkyhippy

He needs a visa now to work


AnalyticContinuation

Needs to get a move on before France joins the red list.


sleepymarsupiel

Once he's done his stint boosting their viewer numbers, don't rush him


emergencyexit

Think his backers have given him a kick up the arski


eamurphy23

I’m the LEAST woke. !


Hungry_Horace

“No true culture war warrior “


SwanBridge

Right-wing cannibalism is my fetish.


Multiversalhobbit

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-no-plans-to-change-sensitivity-of-nhs-contact-tracing-app-after-half-a-million-people-pinged-in-a-week-12357177 Yeah I’d say just delete the app at this point


PriorityInversion

My workplace made us all delete it months ago because people were getting pinged so much.


aka_liam

To be fair, more people being pinged isn’t on its own a reason to adjust the sensitivity.


Underscore_Blues

More people are pinged via the app when more people test positive. More news at 10.


Ivebeenfurthereven

The app is to anonymously tell you that you've been near someone who tested positive. Why don't you want to be informed of that? (Or only informed less often?)


iAreMoot

My friend got pinged but she’d hardly left her house. She called the Covid helpline to see if they could tell her why she’d been told to isolate and they said it was due to the fact someone who also lives within the first half of her postcode (a huge area) had tested positive. She had her Bluetooth on, so the person that tested positive could have simply just walked by her flat (she’s on a footpath/main road) and it would have picked her up as ‘contact’.


Underscore_Blues

By saying "hardly" left the house, they did leave the house then. I'm not sure why people need to find a reason why the ping is incorrect when you don't actually know. I think the T&T handler there is pretty irresponsible attempting to tell someone that they know who set their ping off, when it may not have been them at all. Or leaving the person with the suggestion that it picked it up via walking past their house, even though the app wouldn't tell you to isolate because of that because the time detection wouldn't be there.


iAreMoot

They work from home and the only place they’d gone out to in the week prior had been the supermarket. Do we really need to isolate every time we walk past someone in Tesco who may test positive a couple days later?


Underscore_Blues

A queue in a supermarket or maybe going down the same few aisles as a positive would be enough to set the app off yes. That's exactly what the app is designed to do....


psc1988

Because I'm not that concerned of the risk. Given that day to day in likely to be killed doing my job.


Ivebeenfurthereven

Dangerous occupation?


psc1988

Yes. But not overly so. Most people in my line of work know people that have died doing it. Ever single one of us has an "I almost died" story. It's alot better than it used to be 10 or 20 years ago but still. Most people end up with some sort of physical problems as a result of it regardless.


SwanBridge

Barista confirmed!


psc1988

Hahaha I do love my coffee and when I finish I'd genuinely wouldn't mind it!


SwanBridge

No blue light discount? Local garage does 50p brews, which is quite nice.


[deleted]

What's the point in deleting it when isolating isn't mandatory if you do get pinged? Surely it's useful to know if you have potentially been exposed, even if you choose to ignore the notification


tmstms

Lack of understanding of the anonymity of the app?


sickofant95

I think I had the app installed for about a month before removing it.


SwanBridge

Not to sound like a big man, but I never even bothered to keep my Bluetooth on.


aka_liam

You know you don’t have to isolate if it tells you to? It’s just giving you information.


SwanBridge

Oh I know, but I'd rather not have the moral dilemma. Double vaxxed with a vaccine with really good efficacy, socially distance with vulnerable family members, wear a mask in appropriate settings. Don't see the point to the app tbh, made sense in the before times, but circumstances have changed.


BristolShambler

oooo big man


SwanBridge

Lockdown pounds have piled on tbh.


Vastaux

It's quite comical the notion that anyone who downloaded and used the app to begin with would delete it now that they are likely to be pinged. I guess people are finally ready to admit that things like the app have been mere theatre throughout. God forbid someone's holiday plans are screwed up in the name of keeping others safe lmao! I never downloaded the app personally but I find the hypocrisy of many now quite laughable.


Get_Breakfast_Done

Perhaps people, especially those who are vaccinated, are more concerned about having their holidays ruined than getting ill from Covid.


psc1988

It sums up alot of the opinion polls though doesn't it. Want to have the warm fuzzy feeling of doing their bit, don't want to actually be inconvenienced


bulldog_blues

Its not quite the same situation as it was this time last year. Namely, we have the vaccines now so the chances of getting seriously ill from COVID are enormously reduced. Those not yet double jabbed, by and large, are at very low risk of harm.


chrispepper10

Starmer laughs at comment that the youth don't want work because of how disingenuous it was. The left screengrabs Starmer laughing and wages a campaign claiming that he hates under 25s. This level of bad faith from a faction of the party i would *politically* associate with is frankly pathetic.


Sooperfreak

So with you on this. I would have loved Corbyn to win, but there’s a point where you just have to look at things and realise the dream is over. This year long hissy fit that the left have thrown against Starmer for the crime of not being Corbyn is frankly childish and embarrassing. I can’t stand to associate with these clowns any longer. And while I know to them that makes me Thatcher reincarnated, it’s because I really really want to get the Tories out, and right now these morons are one of their greatest assets.


LeftWingScot

> tarmer laughs at comment that the youth don't want work because of how disingenuous it was. You a mind reader here chief? cause Starmer made no retort to this claim saying how disingenuous it was (at least the BBC did not air it). That's why we are upset. this is a horrifically stupid thing to say and we want a leader who would have pointed that out to her intead of someone who just dumbly nods along.


chrispepper10

He didn't even say anything though? "Some people don't want to work and some people lost their jobs due to covid" is not something to start kicking and screaming about. Please explain why that screen grab conveniently cuts off the second part of that quote if its not intentionally designed to be inflammatory.


cellardoorsimon

He actually said - "maybe there are some people who don't want to work, but there are lots of young people who lost their job during the pandemic..." Then the BBC edited the clip, but it's highly likely that wasn't the end of his sentence. The fact that jobs for under 25's was one of the three things he was there to talk about suggests he is taking it seriously. Yes it was a horrifically stupid thing for both people to say, but claiming the views of the people whose votes he's trying to win as horrifically stupid probably isn't the best plan.


LeftWingScot

saying "your right, but some young people lost their jobs" is not an actual retort to the garbage that was being spouted though; he allowed unchallenged the idea that "if [The Under 25's] wan't to work, they are already working" which is complete nonsense and the premis that Under 25's should not receive Unemployment benefits which just traps them in a vicious cycle of relying of a) relying on their parents more or b) ending up homeless. on your second point about not challenging the public on their views, in not doing so you are undermining your own ambition to govern and change this country. As much as i dislike him, Tony Blair never failed to take the opportunity to call out people for parroting false narratives in the '97 election campaign especially.


chrispepper10

This is literally politics 101. Pretend you agree with them by repeating what they've just said, and then spin it to make it clear why their position is wrong without actually offending them. What's the actual point of telling potential voters that they're idiots and completely wrong?


psc1988

Yeah but it was a plot against Jezza. Eye for an eye.


Explanation-mountain

r/antiwork


Mr_XcX

God bless Sir Keir as LOTO <3


Spiz101

> This level of bad faith from a faction of the party i would politically associate with is frankly pathetic. Unfortunately every faction of the Labour party now believes, often with good reason, that all the others are acting in bad faith. The trust is gone.


OptioMkIX

Have they really done this?


chrispepper10

https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1416006279470927878?s=19 Unfortunately yes. Getting retweeted by all the predictable people as well. It even cuts off the subtitles before the "but" where he says that a lot of young people lost their jobs due to covid. Edit: https://twitter.com/BThroughParty/status/1416042682351296516?s=19 here's the one with him actually laughing.


Elastichedgehog

Them calling him "Keith" makes me cringe.


OptioMkIX

I'm barely surprised anymore. Every week, a new way to put a stick in their own spokes and complain.


psc1988

Yeah we have to assume at this point they don't actually want to win. They just want to be in a club where everyone agrees with them.


w0wowow0w

posted by the Southern Independence Party with their new, honest politics of screencapping misleading comments.


NoFrillsCrisps

Went to *the usual places* to see what this was about. Genuinely tragic Trump-supporter level reaching from these people. The same people who constantly talked of "smears" against Corbyn are spreading blatent edited misinformation about Starmer. To what end?


Spiz101

> To what end? Ultimately? Sauce for the Goose


SwanBridge

In three years I've gone from belting out the Soviet National Anthem to Things Can Only Get Better.


Bibemus

This would be quite the mashup, to be fair.


eamurphy23

What a remix by gawd!


tytusthelad

Just been reading the ZOE study for the new 5 most common symptoms and they exactly match to Enterovirus (another mRNA virus which is prevalent in the summer) This isn't a Covid doesn't exist post I'm just wondering with the variety of people who seem to be experiencing mild flu like symptoms to being completely wiped out for 10 days with it if perhaps the PCR is flagging up any mRNA virus and giving a positive. Has any research been done on this topic?


AbhorEnglishTeachers

Ok so firstly, enteroviruses and coronaviruses and positive sense single stranded RNA viruses, not mRNA. Although also RNA, mRNA is something different. The m stands for messenger, and mRNA is essentially the go between code of cellular (human in this case) DNA (genomic code for protein) and the protein itself. The +ssRNA of these viruses is directly translated in to protein. The pfizer/moderna vaccine are mRNA designed to provide instructions on how to make the viral spike protein, based on the viruses genome PCR amplifies exceptionally specific regions of the SARS-Cov2 genome, and the probes to do so have been finely designed to match the genome sequence exactly, and will have been cross referenced agains all other known viral genomes. You could theoretically get off target amplification (e.g. enterovirus RNA), but I would think this to be exceptionally unlikely. Furthermore the PCR test actually probes for presence of a number of genes, so each would have to have major flaws. Its just not possible. I hope this makes sense? Source: virologist


aka_liam

This guy virals.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AbhorEnglishTeachers

I do a bit more than I should tbh, and usually get told that case numbers don't matter and to stop wanting lockdowns forever (not that I do)... Although these people seem to have gone a bit quiet in the last week or so. The last 18 months or so have been rather trying at times.


tytusthelad

Honestly thanks for that summary. Pretty much exactly what I was wondering answered in 2 paragraphs.


AbhorEnglishTeachers

Also just to point out its Rhinoviruses that are typically responsible for summer colds. These belong to same family (picornaviruses) as enteroviruses. Enteroviruses are less common and cause a wide range of symptoms including flu like symptoms (shit tonnes of viruses do), but also mouth and hand blisters if I remember rightly, and can be quite dangerous to children by causing neurological pathology. Polio is an enterovirus.


AbhorEnglishTeachers

Happy to help!


AlcoholicAxolotl

I think more pertinent is just how generic the symptoms they highlight are. Particularly given the hayfever season. Pretty sure 10% of the population would say they have at least one of those at any time.


FlipBoris

DNA and RNA is just genetic material, every virus has it. Two PCR tests aren't going to be positive just because both viruses have RNA. They test for specific sections.


tytusthelad

Thanks for the reply.


hu6Bi5To

I don't know of anything that specifically compared those two. But other than the symptoms I don't think the two viruses have much in common, certainly not similar enough to create false positives.


[deleted]

[удалено]


compte-a-usageunique

They're just following employment law


KvotheQ

Jesus, so the guilty plea on the 8th of June to the charges of rape and kidnap weren't enough to have him sacked?


YorkistRebel

It was but there was an ongoing investigation which they didn't want to even risk prejudicing. It's pretty standard, you have rights as an employee and its safer to sack someone for theft if you don't report it.


DukeofWellington1815

Adam Johnson was sacked by Sunderland as soon as he pled guilty to some of his offences, even though he pled not guilty for the more serious ones. I’m not sure how you square that circle.


NoFrillsCrisps

Even if you plead guilty? What's to prejudice in those circumstances?


YorkistRebel

In this case the murder trial, which he pleaded guilty to afterwards. The month in-between he was suspended, certain to be sacked (kidnap is considered gross misconduct), but not yet sacked.


KvotheQ

Thanks, that makes sense.


Lord_Gibbons

With the rate that the delta variant has taken hold, despite it's the middle of summer, imagine if we hadn't had any success with the vaccine... I think it's safe to say, regardless to everyones opinion on restrictions, a *lot* more people would have died.


compte-a-usageunique

Do people not like the A303? It's got Stonehenge!


corvusmonedula

Over rated, Averbury is whammo


Dr_V97

Basically past Amesbury it should be dual carriageway but nimbys don't want despite the economic benefits to the regions


100basepairs

Bruh, it's a bunch of rocks in the middle of a field. Fuck the A303. Cornwall wouldnt be this deprived if Google maps stopped putting people on the fucking A303 everytime they looked at a route.


dospc

God is this what this sub is going to be like in silly season.


Bibemus

Sorry, did I fall asleep for an afternoon and miss sensible season?


gravy_baron

I must have fallen asleep for 5 years.


Spiz101

My understanding is you get a very nice view of Stongehenge as you sit there in a traffic jam. Hence the tunnel


xerker

People slow down to look at it causing the traffic... Catch 22. As a local, I hate it. They're just a bunch of rocks that we put back up 100 years ago.


compte-a-usageunique

You get the nice view of Stonehenge because people want to look at it, I'd say


emergencyexit

Druids pranking us from millennia ago. Think you're so fancy with your automobiles zooming around. Hah!


bbbbbbbbbblah

M4/M5 far superior in terms of actually getting places


SwanBridge

M6 crew checking in.


eamurphy23

Agreed although my preferred tributary is the dangerous M62 featuring England’s highest altitude road.


thomalexday

*motorway


hu6Bi5To

One undiagnosed epidemics of the past two years has been Performative Stupidity. The latest example is just this week. On Monday the government said "we expect infections per day to exceed 100,000 at peak", and published five detailed documents modelling the next few months and what they're expecting to happen at different times. Today, all of Reddit, social media, every newspaper report: "cases are up since yesterday, up is bad, new lockdown?" The point is, whether one agrees with SAGE's models or not (and there are reasons to be suspicious of them, but if people are doubting them they really should say which reasons they're personally concerned about); and regardless of whether one believes the "meh, it won't kill *that* many people" is ethical or not... the point is, that's the path the government have chosen so the only way to determine if things are on-track or going badly wrong is to compare the actual data with those SAGE models? If the actuals are under the curve: all is good. If they're over the curve: well... yes... that would be awkward. (Although the models did show several curves, so we'll have to go through the fun game of "which path are we following?" first).


messibusiness

Great comment; and yes, performative everything is a bit of an epidemic in the world isn’t it. Here’s what I genuinely don’t understand, if anyone can explain the thinking I’d love to know what it is: How can they predict the peak? Since cases have hit 50,000 just in time for ‘Let’s Go Clubbing Day’ (the only time a government has hit a target in my lifetime, so that’s one thing), and cases double exponentially every, what is it now, a fortnight... how and why will it end at 100,000? Why is that a high water mark? The only thing that stops exponential growth of cases is restrictions and lockdowns. Wouldn’t it just double again and again and again until it hits, er, 60 million?


Engineer9

This is a good point. But I don't think 'performative stupidity' is a good term, as that implies that people should just accept that the government's plan is the right one. Much of the outrage is that the government has a shit plan, not that the models are off. I'm sure people can think of examples in the past where the government has had a plan that everyone knew was shit that resulted in then backtracking. Usually a couple of weeks after Captain Hindsight first points it out to them.


AlcoholicAxolotl

A pet peeve of mine is the use of completely arbitrary figures. 100,000 tests a day was one. Why? What is the purpose, the intended effect of this quantity? What makes it more beneficial than 90,000, or 150,000? Nothing's ever justified. 50,000 infections a day, wew that's a lot isn't it. Why? What makes it 'a lot'? What informs the sense that 50k a day is not reasonable given the circumstance? What informs the notion that it's unreasonably many? Lockdown until 75% of the population is vaccinated. Why? Why 75%? Does it matter which 75%? If not, why not? Why are you saying this now and not before? It really gets my goat, specific numbers just shat out on the basis of unjustified arbitrary whims.


hu6Bi5To

Indeed, when Hancock started demanding 100,000 tests/day I immediately remembered an old episode of Yes Minister when Jim Hacker learned that the best way of getting Sir Humphrey to do something he didn't want to do was to announce to the media that he'd already agreed to do it. I just assumed a debate inside the Department of Health: Hancock: "We need more tests!" modern Sir Humphrey: "We could possibly do 5,000/day in six weeks time." Hancock: "I'm going say 100,000/day by the end of the month!" Of course this made more tests = better tests the dominant culture throughout the pandemic, and any kind of debate on what the optimal testing strategy might be was notable by its absence.


[deleted]

[удалено]


williamthebloody1880

>The fact that they would likely have lost Batley and Spen but for Handsy Hancock should be a canary down the mine shaft. So that's the latest excuse for that result bring bad for Labour then


PeterOwen00

I think you overestimate how much regular people are caring about politics at least 3 years out from an election during a pandemic


tylersburden

No doubt there is an element of truth to what you say. But there are also extremely weird circumstances regarding where Starmer and Labour are in now. He was made leader just as the pandemic broke and people don't care about politics at the best of times but least of all when they are told to stay home (and are glad to) to save themselves from a deadly virus. It has been unfortunate from Labour's perspective but hopefully it can be righted.


[deleted]

[удалено]


tylersburden

> The optics are terrible. I posted below that it looks like a fucking intervention, and it many ways, it is. > > Brexit and Covid and they can barely land a glancing blow. > The problem is that brexit is a disaster but only barely and nothing to sink the government over. The tories have chucked a ton of money at it to smooth it over and criticism looks like carping. Covid is also very strange. Half the electorate think that Labour are too harsh on the government, the other half think they are too soft. During the crisis is the wrong time perhaps but Labour can still stick the boot in during the inquiry. >But for being saved by the bell(end) of Matt Hancock, Kier would be having maneuvers against him from his own party. Not some Tory press, not the Tory Kuenssberg, his own rank and file. New to Labour politics huh?


TheManyMilesWeWalk

Why should it be a bad sign? Have LOTOs in the past been very well known to the apolitical or was Corbyn an exception?


[deleted]

[удалено]


TheManyMilesWeWalk

It'll be forgotten about by the time the election comes around. Especially since Starmer seems intent on making himself known now.


EmperorOfNipples

COVID deaths today 49. When case numbers climbed to this point in the last wave we were on 964 deaths a day. ​ Fucking awesome! I love vaccines.


Lord_Gibbons

To be fair, at this point in the last wave the rate of infection increase was a lower so it's hard to draw concrete comparisons. However, it is clear the vaccines are very effective at preventing death.


EmperorOfNipples

I know it's imperfect, but the vast disparity must be encouraging.


Mr_XcX

YAS Hunny Chris Whitty next day: "We must lock down and protect vulnerable population even though they have had both jabs".


compte-a-usageunique

> Hunny


kewpie--

Spelling honey like that is gay slang


sickofant95

I prefer hunty


thomalexday

He was being whitty