Reality of Knife Attacks - I knew they would be scary but holy shit
By - stook
It's nice to see an honest self defence instructor. Most fights are fast and scrappy and savage and you only really think about what you did after it's over.
When I took Krav Maga in college, our instructor made it abundantly clear that if your were ever faced with a knife, you're going to get cut. The drills we did (some of which were just giving everyone a rubber training knife and running around trying to stab each other) emphasized that it's very hard to not get stabbed, and impossible if you don't see it coming (i.e. don't get into bar fights, don't expect to only ever face a single attacker - assume he has friends).
We also spent a class practicing how to give a mugger our wallet or purse. This was to make everyone comfortable with that action to avoid freezing or panic, affording us some ability to remain aware. Also, it's such an incredible cliche, but the point to to exit alive. No point in getting into a fight over a few bucks, a credit card I can cancel, and a driver's license I can get replaced through the mail.
None of this "empty hands" nonsense so many YouTube tough-guy instructors brag about. It's not worth it. Either give up the goods, or run.
I learned basic knife fighting skills as a Army Ranger. The first lesson was if you are close enough to use a knife someone screwed up.
What's that saying, "in a knife fight the loser dies on the spot and the winner a few hours later in the hospital.'
Grew up in a rough neighborhood. My dad was a bouncer for years, big guy, fearless, and generally very kind. A guy showed up on our porch one night, bleeding everywhere. He'd been stabbed at a house a block away and walked to our house hoping my dad could help him. We got bath towels, called 911. My dad wouldn't let him inside, and made him sit outside and bleed waiting for the ambulance. There was so much blood. My dad was shaken up, told me no one wins knife fights, and he didn't let them guy in because he thought he might've had something on him. I think he was worried he might try and hide drugs in the house and come back later for them.
Your father was a wise man.
He still is, thankfully. I wish I lived closer, so he could spend more time with my kids. One of the lessons he taught me was if I ever got a bad feeling about a place or situation, just leave immediately. Such good advice. Almost all of his friends from the 70s overdosed or died from Hep C, he's one of the few survivors. I'm very lucky to have him, he's like a walking time capsule.
Little nuggets like that from a Dad who's been through some shit are invaluable. I live far away from my Dad as well, and I'm bummed my kid won't get to spend a bunch of time with him. Hoping I can remember enough to pass some knowledge on from not only him, but my grandfathers as well.
You and the happy heathen should use this exchange as a motivation to call your dads and make plans. My daughter was 3 when he came to visit for the first time in a long time and I said “I wish my dad was around her more”. He had a stroke a few months later and lost the ability to speak. He was 65 at the time and died 5 years later at 70. My daughters are 12 and 8 now and I’d give anything to be able to call him and tell him a funny story about them or ask him about the old days. I want to tell him I love him and thank him for getting me this far. Good luck to you both!
I hadn't thought of that. First I'd be worried about pursuers, if his attacker wanted to finish the job all of a sudden you're defending your home. But really I wouldn't want the guy bleeding all over all my shit.
I think I would be more worried about pursuers if they came outside looking to finish the job and saw you on the porch hovering over the guy they're intent on killing with nothing to protect yourself but a bloody towel.
A friend of mine in college witnessed a road rage shooting. He stopped to help the guy immediately as they guy was driving off and the guy put the car in reverse and murdered him over the other guys dead body right then and there while he was calling the cops.
I don't know if I'd want that person in my house bleeding on all my shit, but I don't know if I'd want to be outside where the psychopath who stabbed them could find their victim and in turn me defenseless holding the person's blood in for them while waiting for an ambulance.
I guess the safest thing I would imagine is helping the person outside on the porch while someone who is armed makes calls to the police nearby. Standing watch over the person who could actually be the perpetrator or watching for other wack jobs charging you with intent to kill.
Wow that's fucked. Yeah people shoot people over car shit like every day in my city. It's freaking Mad Max out there.
I remember being on a work trip in the states years ago (I’m from Canada), and I had a rental car. One night me and some American colleagues went for dinner and it was my turn to be DD. We were driving back to the hotel and some asshole blew through a stop sign and cut me off, so I braked and honked and flipped him off. The passengers freaked out like “what the hell are you doing man, you trying to get us shot?”
Road rage happens up here too, but usually we just call each other names and go our separate ways. Never occurred to me that someone might shoot me for showing them my finger.
Where in the US were you? Most places that’s absolutely standard operating procedure lol. You really only have to REALLY worry about getting shot in a select few places
i never thought about not letting anyone in your house even if there injured and need help, thats smart, me being a dummy or just too nice and trying to help would of been like "oh my goodness what you need to throw all this stuff in my trash, absolutely thats fine i wont tell anyone, cops? oh dont worry, actually your really bleeding like a lot, let me just take that for you and throw it out"
I’ve been a cop for 10 years. A few years ago I had a case where a “wounded” assailant in a street mugging ran to someone’s house for care.
The people inside let the guy in thinking he was a victim since he was covered in blood. The subject was reportedly adamant that no one call 911 (CLUE!) and just wanted towels to clean up.
The homeowner’s guest called 911 anyways. When we arrived the subject tried to run out of the back (CLUE!), but the door wouldn’t open.
The homeowner followed the man for whatever reason. He, the homeowner, later stated in court he thought the male was afraid of police and wanted to talk him down.
At the back door the subject then produced a concealed box cutter and attempted to take the homeowner hostage.
The homeowner was a middle aged man, short height and heavy build, and he ended up in a struggle with the armed man. During the fight, as we were navigating through the home, the subject stabbed the homeowner near the brachial artery.
The box cutter blade snapped off at that point and we tackled them both, unsure of who was the aggressor at that point.
At this point I didn’t even see the bladed weapon as it was dark and the only illumination provided was my taser light (my partner had lethal cover and I was less lethal) and a dim hallway light. I acted in impulse to separate the two and take control physically. (I was later dressed down for this and given a written reprimand)
This all took place in the span of a few seconds.
It only took us a moment to realize who the aggressor subject was though.
We hooked him up and began treating everyone. As we were calling in the medics to approach a separate call came out for a “man down” a few blocks over in a business parking lot.
We put two and two together and learned our subject had actually murdered a man in a mugging.
He fled to a residential area pretending to be a victim, then (likely fearing the ruse would fall apart) tried to run. When that didn’t work he almost killed the person who’d moments before opened his home to him.
He was taken to the hospital and later booked for murder one and attempted murder (among various other charges.)
The homeowner never fully recovered. He had to undergo several surgeries due to multiple lacerations about his person and the single penetrating wound to his bicep. He nearly bled out in his own kitchen.
Lesson: if someone shows up to your house asking for help please call the police and protect yourself. You never know what happened before this guy wound up on your doorstep.
Yup. I trained Philippine knife fighting and kali (just for fun and workouts, have no illusions about being a knife fighter lol) and even the old dudes who had literally devoted their lives to playing and fighting with knives know there's no coming out a "winner" in a real knife fight. Training it you realize super fast that the idea of a nice clean disarm on the street is outrageous, better off trying to learn to flap your arms and fly to safety.
As an aside though the training is a blast and great for hand eye and cardio, a lot of fun. Have messed around with a lot of martial arts
Yeah same here, I used to do Kung Fu and that was basically the whole lesson on knives, if they grab you, break the grip and run like hell, if they haven't grabbed you yet, just run like hell lol.
Also same kind of thing for if you're surrounded, realistically you're not going to be able to fight all of them. Best to just pick whoever you think you can knock out of the way, make a gap and run for it. :)
Judo was the same. Avoid fight at all cost, if you have to fight against a weapon you are fighting for your life and treat it as such.
I remember a friend of mine used to do karate, and his teacher told them once, in a street fight, you are fighting for your life, so you kick in the balls, gouge eyes, pick up a brick, whatever it takes to get out of it.
Always keep a handful of pocket sand just in case.
This is ideal, as it's coarse, irritating, and it gets everywhere.
They tell the same thing to women if they are abducted, shit your pants, start pissing, spit, do WHATEVER to not get taken to another location
Yeah, that's if you can outrun them. Knives are honestly terrifying. I trained Krav Maga for a few years and got to work with law enforcement, mostly folks from LA who saw some shit.
Scariest pictures I saw were the pics of survivors and those who didn't make it. Survivors arms were hamburger, because they kept defending themselves. Murder Victims would have a few stab wounds in their backs that killed ouright. Basically the message was "knives are so goddamn scary that surviving means accepting getting tons of less deadly cuts to avoid a few very deadly cuts. But you're getting cut. And probably real bad. Best chance is hoping they tire out or give up."
All my training basically taught me "stay the fuck away from situations where you might get fucking stabbed." Lol
Doesn't this bring an interesting question: how should you train to run away from a fight?
This thread seems fairly clear: fighting a guy with a knife is a bad idea, just run away. OK, assumming he chases you, what would be the best way to train to run away. Note that training running can make one a lot faster while this thread seems to agree that training knife fighting is not really realistic.
I would guess that you would want to start out your run fast to create initial distance but also be able to keep going for some time as to not get caught. You would probably want to have target splits to hit at 50, 100, 200, 400, and maybe 800 meters.
Sounds silly but adding a dash of functional parkour to that would be immensely beneficial. Running in urban environments you will encounter obstacles, some of which (if you can scale them quickly enough) can significantly slow down your pursuer. Learning how to really jump and scale walls, vault railings and manage moderate drops without spraining an ankle can all play into making the pursuit not worth it for your attacker.
Or hey, if you can climb/drop something big enough, you've created an effective bottleneck from which you have more time to call the police and defend yourself from anyone who tries to get at you.
I feel like obstacles are more a hindrance than help to the one trying to flee. If you make a single mistake, you can be toast. The attacker, on the other hand, can slip and still gets a 2nd chance.
Not if they slip and fall on their knife though. That's why you carry a backpack full of banana peels.
The thought of somebody training functional parkour just in case they are potentially chased by a guy with a knife is cracking me up, no offense 😂
See, that's the mistake. If you really wanna stand a chance: everyone knows you gotta train in *hardcore* parkour.
I've always heard "you don't *win* a knife fight"
You don't win you're just the last to lose.
The winner of a knife fight dies in the ambulance.
I'm always reminded of the write-up about MOH recipient David Bellavia.
After killing four insurgents, Bellavia was confronted by a wounded fighter who engaged him in hand-to-hand combat.
*I was covering his mouth, telling him to shut up. His breath was horrible, just stale, nasty breath. The moral of the story is that the dude bites my left hand near the thumb knuckle through my glove. I open up my SAPI plate and hit him with the inside of my vest. He's screaming, there are people screaming downstairs and I have no composure at all. This is not a John Rambo moment. I'm really scared. I stand up and he digs into my leg with his fingers. I'm looking for my Rex Applegate Gerber knife: not a multi-tool, just a serious blade. I go to reach for it and he puts his teeth — I don't wear underwear and he bites me right in the genital region.*
*I don't know if he thought I was going to give him mercy, but in the struggle my Velcro knife case slid off my belt and was now on the ground next to his head. I hear someone yell down from above me in a panic. The man underneath me yells back. The more I put pressure on his left arm the more he goes limp. I flick my blade to the side and it snaps to the ready. I had never stabbed anyone before so I went down on him with a stabbing motion. I lost the grip on the knife and it went right across the base of my right pinkie finger. As soon as I let it go, a hot wave hit me and it smelled like rust. I put one hand on his mouth and other under his chin and just started to push like I was giving him CPR. The stream only got powerful when I pushed down and it opened up. I fell over and was completely exhausted.*
fuck, that bit about losing the grip hits home. like 8 years ago i hit a hard item with the tip of brand new really sharp knife when pushing it into a cardboard box.
The knife became immovable, my hand didnt. Hand slid right down off the handle and over the blade, slicing my index finger about 70% off below the second knuckle. I still only have about 60% feeling in that finger even after surgeries and nerve stitching.
Didnt hurt one bit (because i cut the nerve clean). I went to the sink to run it under the water and saw my bone, and the entire inside of my finger like a clean cut of meat, called 911, wrapped a towel around it and went and sat at the bottom of my long-ass driveway until the ambulance came.
Yeah, it's crazy how you can not realize you've cut yourself for a few seconds or even a minute or so. I used to take a stained glass class years ago and man, you would cut that glass with a cutter and put it in the water, thinking "Okay next step" and then "Oh wow, that water is red...blood red...shit".
Adrenaline is a hell of a drug
Glass is so dang sharp.
I recently cut myself washing a glass and something broke in the sink. I felt the edge slide into my thumb farther than it should have gone, but it was so smooth and painless…at first.
It’s like my body took a second to realize it was an injury, it was such a smooth cut.
I nearly cut my finger off bumping it into a running AC fan. Just dangling by skin and half a tendon. Didn't feel a thing and drove my self to the hospital after five minutes of debating whether or not to call an ambulance.
Adrenaline is a hell of a drug.
Thats my general thinking about someone with a knife. "Oh, well Im not Bruce Lee so I think Ill stand back here and hit you with this *literally anything I can find thats long*
Failure to do that probably means Ima bleed.
"I'm not Bruce Lee but I'm willing to test if I'm Usain Bolt"
I’ve always like the saying, “I can run faster scared than you can run angry.”
I can't find the video of it now, but I'm pretty sure there's a famous demonstration in which Bruce Lee demonstrates his best knife defense. His partner pulls the rubber knife and Bruce Lee just runs the f away in a blur. He wasn't a dummy, he knew what everyone in this thread is saying. :P
This is very good advice
I hate it when I see people comment that a cop shouldn't have shot somebody coming at them with a knife. They should have more "training" so they can just disarm them.
Police reform is badly needed, but a cop shooting somebody running at them with a knife ain't it.
And here we get legit police training with the [21 foot rule](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h0-q_IJbxE).
My go to home defence weapon is a boar hunting spear I keep next to my bed. I figure a spear turns the 21 foot rule into the 24 foot rule.
> (some of which were just giving everyone a rubber training knife and running around trying to stab each other)
Sometimes we'd use markers instead of knives, and wear white t-shirts. At the end of the night, we'd be told to count the number of marks on the shirt. It's kind of amazing how many times you get "cut" without even realizing it.
My Kung Fu school does this. You learn knife defense as part of the syllabus, but they also do the white t-shirt exercise to show it's only to be used as a last resort.
I used to know a chap who taught women's self defence classes. He'd left the Royal Marines (British) and joined the French Foreign Legion for 10 years before coming back to the UK.
He taught like 5-6 different moves, all variations of hurt him and get loose, and everything ended with "then run away as fast as you can." A really good guy, he always told the women he taught it's better to scream "Fire" rather than "help" or "rape", because people will come investigate a fire.
But back to the point, he'd been taught some French style of knife fighting in the foreign legion, and repeatedly made the point there are no winners in a knife fight, only (sometimes) loser that can walk away. You're going to get cut or stabbed, and the best thing anyone can do when someone pulls a knife is run away.
Sorry for the ramble, I've been on hold for the last 55 minutes....
>Sorry for the ramble, I've been on hold for the last 55 minutes....
How's the music?
It cycled through 4 times. I was considering bursting my own eardrums on the 3rd cycle.
In escrima/kali, the quote circulates that the loser of a knife fight bleeds to death on the sidewalk. The winner of a knife fight bleeds to death in the ambulance.
Bit of a rant incoming, sorry for my rambling.
Was practitioning kali for quite some time, it's basically "street fighting", with that I mean realistic fighting without rules. If it works, it works. Takes into account how scared and full of adrenalin people are in the real situation and adjusts moves accordingly, fancy shit simply doesn't cut it (see this video and the "MAKE A FIST" comment).
Of *course* you do train with knives and defense against knives. I mean, what you gonna do, just give up? But of course you also reiterate a thousand times over a thousand hours that the only way to win a fight is to not get into it, *especially* when it comes to knives. You just fucking run if you have the chance.
The best thing you can train for self defense is cardio and sprinting.
Defending against *swords* was easier than against knives. That's how bad this is.
I remember defending against permanent markers as knives a couple times. No matter how good you are, you *will* get marked. And the worst thing is if you see the spots in a mirror and go:
"Huh? THERE? When did he hit me there? What? How? No, that didn't happen."
And then you realize even more that even after thousands of hours of training you'd just be fucking dead. Because you know who stabbed and cut you with the deadly permanent marker? Whose job it was to play that role?
It was almost always the guy who had his first lesson.
Always had a great time tho, escrima / kali is incredible fun. Even if it hurts sometimes haha
"That's my purse"
I don't know you!
Saw a redditor the other day talking about how he carries a garrote to defend against knife attacks and actually claimed to have degloved someone's arm with it when they tried to stab him (I think it was also 5 guys fighting him but they fled after his display of martial prowess). It was the most neckbeard mall ninja shit I've seen someone try to pass off as real.
I think it stems from the "attacks" demonstrated by bullshido self defense instructors, most people think that's how knife attacks actually are (moderate speed, one big smooth arc, etc).
Pfft that's nothing. I carry around a katana hilt that i move so swiftly the air itself becomes my blade. Guy tried to mug me once and didn't even realize his knife hand was severed until the cherry blossoms settled at my feet.
"The blossoms are so beautiful this time of year... "
*cough* but its July!
"Ah.. you see... my attack was so swift that it happened back in April. You've been dead for 3 months."
I see. *looks up* It was a good life *closes eyes as a blood geyser erupts from abdomen*
*a shakuhachi plays gently in the distance*
*sadness and sorrow begins to play*
Yes your honor, I degloved his arm in self defense. I also cut off his face and wore it as a mask in self defense.
Well that's not that unlikely, it kind of happened to me too.
Basically once I was was going to my then girlfriend for a sleepover.
It was a nice evening so I decided to walk, as she lived not far from my place.
I was listening to John Danzig on Spotify so I didn't hear one guy approaching me from behind.
He tapped me on a shoulder and I barely had time to turn around that his knife was at my throat.
Now, luckily muscle memory from my defense classes kicked in before I had time to think, and with a move I know I punched him in the throat.
My movements were so smooth that my earphones didn't slip off my ears, and Danzig was still rocking, so I couldn't hear the thug's friends coming to his aid (even if it was too late for him).
Before I knew it I was surrounded.
They must have been a dozen or so. I immediately realised I needed a weapon, and thought to pick my attacker's, but my defense had been so effective that his knife had been thrown several meters away, out of my reach.
So I did a quick mental inventory of the content of the backpack I was carrying for my night out: bath towel, not sure; condoms (size xl) not useful in a fight: spare boxer shorts, mm I put a pin on them; face cream, no use; Vaseline as you never know, no use; body spray, could be used as a flame thrower but I had no lighter as I had quit smoking a week prior, my usual luck. Then it hit me: floss!
So I pulled about an arm's length of floss from its plastic case, just in time for the first attacker.
I ducked under his punch, wrapped my floss around his ankle and tripped him, then I kicked his balls while he was on the ground. I didn't want to kill him.
The second attacker also tried to punch me, but he wasn't fast enough for me. I wrapped the floss around his wrist and pulled, and I shit you not the skin of his hand came out so easily you couldn't believe it. Sure you have to know how to do it.
Anyway, I slapped the third attacker with the skin of his friend's hand, which made him unconscious.
I garroted a fourth one with the floss, vaulted above his head while he was gasping for air, and dispatched another guy with a well placed kick on the side of his head.
At that point the remaining ones figured out they were outmatched and ran away with their tail between their legs.
Just in time, I have to say, as my floss was all slippery with blood and not as effective as it was at the beginning of the fight.
I mean at that point I could have used the rolled bath towel as a whip I guess, but I wasn't that sure it would have worked, as it needs to be wet to be really effective.
Anyway, yes, the guy you mentioned must have been a liar, I doubt even I would have been able to deglove someone with my bare hands.
I was in a similar situation but I didn't have any floss. I took my back pack and threw it up in the air then jumped and used it like a launch pad. I front kicked my assailant in the face while jumping over him, knocking his nose into his brain killing him instantly.
I ninja rolled 180 to see his friends just standing there. I didn't have much time to think so I quickly took my shoes off and tied them together. I threw them at the guy's feet and they wrapped around their legs, tripping them making them fall face first onto the concert.
One guy was already crying while the second guy was just staring at me so I did a quick throat chop, backing up the blood in his artery and rendering him unconscious for 15 min. All my friends used to wear crocs until i told them this story. Now we all wear vans.
Everyone's a pro until the other guy pulls a loaded glock on your ass.
Lol, that belongs on r/iamverybadass
When I was stabbed I didn’t even know it happened till it was over. I was talking and felt something drip down my back. I touched it and there was a hole in my back and blood.
This doesn't just go for knife wounds either. My dad was wounded in multiple different instances in Viet Nam. He said every time he was wounded didn't know it until the fight was over because he was so pumped on adrenaline. The last instance, for which he won the Bronze Star for Valor, was when their operating base came under heavy artillery fire. A shell landed in the midst of two hooches, killing most of the soldiers inside. Dad was in the shower, and narrowly missed the direct hit. Naked, he evacked the remaining living men while under heavy mortar and small arms fire. On the final trip the medics realized he'd been hit as well, he and the medics thought he was covered in other people's blood. They ended up removing more than 30 pieces of shrapnel from his body. I don't recall how big the largest piece was, but he's got a 2" diameter scar on his leg from it.
Former bouncer. Stabbed twice. Both times happened so quickly that even if I had been alerted in advance and prepared, it would have been iffy stopping it.
VERY fortunate to have a former intsructor who had been a gang member in one of the rougher sections of New York. He always told us that if you couldn't get away, fight a knife like you were already beaten. You're gonna bleed like a stuck pig...literally. Break the other guy so badly so you can get yourself patched up before you bleed out.
That is why i train to be Jason Bourne everyday just in case. Catching bullets is the next achievement i need to unlock.
Pro tip: start with a .22. Once you can reliably catch those, you can work up to .380, then to 45, then 9 and so on. Finally just worked my way up to 5.7x28 this weekend.
Unlocking the Ozymandias training can take decades, perfect eugenics, and a type 9 intellect.
As someone who has no experience of getting into fights, in the back of my mind, you always envisage yourself reacting like some kind of John Wick/Jason Bourne badass when/if you encounter in this kind of violent situation. As someone who has watched too much TV/movies, thats just horseshit, your own hubris inflating your own ego.
This is good advice , totally smacked my senses, dont be a hero. Knife fights are scary.
I'm just saying, I don't know if the John Wick movies have showed a single knife fight yet where John didn't get stabbed or cut up. And if even the action hero can't get out of it without serious wounds, then regular joes definitely aren't going to.
I've always heard to think of knife fights like trying to take a sharpie from a toddler. You may be a much better fighter, but you're still going to get ink on you.
"The best block to put up against a knife attack is a city block"
Basically the top advice is always to GTFO.
First rule of self-defence: Run away.
Second rule of self-defence: WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU READING THIS, YOU SHOULD BE RUNNING AWAY!
Family runs a self-defence business. Against weapons, you just do what you feel in the situation. Guns or knives, either capitulate or know that you're about to potentially sacrifice your life (so your family can escape, or to stop him killing others, etc.).
All the fancy-arse moves in the world won't stop you being stabbed AND you may not even realise you've been stabbed until long afterwards when you're bleeding to death on the floor. You can't feel it in the heat of the moment.
If someone pulls a weapon, you have to assume they are going to use it, and you have to assume that will kill you if they do.
So either run away, or know that you're about to die. Just take it as a given. You still have a choice, just not much of one.
Anyone who pisses about with disarming techniques hasn't been in a street fight.
30+ years my family have been teaching self-defence and I've never witnessed anything to the contrary, it's not worth the time to teach anything but run away. And if you do decide to fight (which is only one of the remaining options... how about talk him down? Capitulate? Distract?), trying to disarm is stupid and/or obvious, and if you do choose to fight, you're going to want to keep them at leg's length anyway (which is further away and safer than arm's length... front kick and keep pushing them away... I've watched a black belt do it for 10 minutes to a pair of other unarmed black belts) and all normal fighting techniques apply because there's really not much you can do about the knife.
For kids, self-defence is scream and run.
For adults, run.
Seeking help comes next.
Only if you're backed into a corner and unable to escape do you fight.
Anything else isn't self-defence, it's bravado.
I hate that people use this so much but "everyone has a plan until you get punched in the face" line is so true. My dad talks about getting into street fights as a younger kid as almost a right of passage. IDK about that but I was in a couple fist fights as a teenager and just getting socked in the gut or popped in the nose will fuck your whole shit up. The chaotic struggle when you are actually in those situations makes it hard to focus and you never know how you will react until it happens to you. I could only imagine what it would be like with a real gun or knife in your face.
I remember seeing a video where a guy was talking about dealing with multiple opponents and his only advice was "Fucking run. If you're up against three guys and you go down you are fucking dead, no matter how many classes you took. Your one and only objective is to get the fuck out by any means as soon as you can."
The best demonstration I've ever seen was you give the attacker a marker. Every mark is a cut. Go ahead and try and disarm the attacker.
Everyone was cut if not killed outright.
And anyone who has a toddler has first-hand experience with trying to disarm someone with a marker.
Yeah. We train with rubber knives that have red lipstick on the edges. Basically, shows slicing.
I've trained in one single style of martial arts for over 20 years. I've learned several dozen "moves" to "defend" against knife attacks. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING will stop you from getting cut short of running and escaping. As he says, some are better than others. Nobody does the horror movie stab, nobody does the big slashy-slash.
You train against this so you can try to desensitize and not freeze up like that instructor was explaining. You train against this so your best efforts are not the worst possible scenario. You train against this because it's better than nothing.
I've been cut once by a knife in an alley in Belltown, Seattle, and I ran to get away. I've been in dozens of fights in my life; I will either acquiesce to a knife wielder or I will run if I think I can do so.
How are you getting in so many fights bro?
The last fight I got into was 3 years ago at a bar called Streamline in Seattle. I used to live in that neighborhood and the Stream is my main hangout. I used to sit in the back room with my guitar and some headphones and just practice guitar.
I heard a commotion outside and looked out the window and saw a crowd. The standard circle up thing. I heard, "Help, help!" and nobody was doing anything.
I got up and went outside. A tweaker was swinging at a friend / bar regular named Chris. The tweaker had a white shirt covered in dried blood and was super scabbed up. Nobody was doing anything, so I intervened. Thankfully, it ended with the tweaker running away and nobody was seriously hurt.
The time before that was when some meathead attacked my brother. Did that super-bro-power move where you shake someone's hand and won't let go. My brother, drunk and too out of his gourd to react, was at his mercy.
I don't instigate. Ever. /u/Clownsatemybaby - you might be right, but sometimes I choose to act rather than waffle and watch.
Can confirm; good place to get attacked with a knife.
The worst thing you can do is surrender. Then the person can do whatever they want to you. That was my mistake. My neck was slit. My heart was almost stabbed just an artery sliced. 8 inch buck knife went in 8 inches and 8 inches across before I even began to resist. I thought surrendering would end it.
As someone who went through this shit in real life. After having neck slit - and stabbed in the chest - I remember defending with my arms from my head being hit (did not work), as they sat on my chest continuing to stab me, it's kind of like monty python as every time your heart beats your head spits out a Quentin Tarantino amount of blood. Arms took around 20 some slashes before - by the grace of God I was able to catch the knife coming down two handed on my head as they were on top of me and punching the blade some 10 - 20 feet away then able to stay and bleed until rescue arrived. Buck Knife - did only passive defense. My advise attack, attack then attack again if I could do it over. I still got kicked, fish-hooked, beaten with a makeshift bat. Life flighted and still alive. 0/10 would not do passive defense or surrender again.
Edit: Run if you can I couldnt was locked in. Stabbed first time trying to open the door.
1) how the fuck did you survive?
2) what happened to the attacker?
3) how has the event affected your life in the longer run?
4) why’d they stab you? If your comfortable speaking about it.
1. Knocking the knife out of their hands helped a lot - it fell under a couch, after which the person beat me with a chair that broke into a basically a bat, once that broke the person fish hooked me and kicked me until i passed out. Lived in a Condo was crying/screaming for help from the start. Originally knife to my neck and threats etc until it was sliced.
2. Prison. Got a sweet easy sentence as is the State I lived in. I moved out of State due to fear from the parole after they were released and still try to incognito.
3. Nerve damage cant control my hands due to the attack at some times or legs and panic attacks and other issues. I don't like talking about this just thought would share to help other attacked by a knife. The Doctor says I am lucky I can walk.
4. Domestic. Kicking the person out refused to leave, got stabbed in return, tried to run but when doing the dead bolts had a knife to my neck. Just told them to leave, however pulled a knife I decided best that I leave and call the cops - couldn't get away.
Edit: minor detail the person also tried to bite out my cheek where they fish hooked me and on my chest nothing like taking antibiotics for a human bite. I am a person this happened to me, please keep that in mind. I was trying to give advice to people faced with a knife. Don't surrender even if you can't run.
fuck i’ve lived an easy life..
What happened to you is horrifying and I can absolutely see how surrendering did you no good. However I think there's an important distinction to make between a domestic with a person intent on doing you harm and a random mugging in the street. I think in the context of a mugging, surrendering and just giving up your wallet or watch or phone or whatever is still the best course when you cant run.
Best analogy of a knife fight I have heard:
You can’t take a sharpie away from a 3 year old without getting marks all over you, what makes you think you can do it with a grown adult that actually wants to hurt you?
The best way to see what he is talking about is to give a red sharpie to a friend for 30 seconds and try not to let them mark you up. They will happily draw all over you with permanent marker and instinctively switch hands and do all sorts of bullshit. It’s pretty alarming!
"Hey friend I have a game to play, try to get me with this permanent marker and I'll try to prevent you."
\*Roundhouse kicks friend to face\*
"hah I knew those guys had no idea what they were talking about"
You can’t really defend against a buddy with a sharpie unless they’re willing to take some punches, though.
I was gonna say, not a totally fair comparison, but the result of getting marked up is close enough to accurate I'm sure.
Swift kick to the kid's head and then I'll just take their sharpie. Parenting is easy
(Cobra Kai mantra)
Do you happen to babysit on the side?
My favorite I’ve heard “the loser dies in the street the winner dies in the ambulance”
That's the one I always use. I've had some friends over the years who think they're hot shit because they're carrying knives on them (I'm not from the US, it's either illegal or very restricted to get guns here), and I always told them to just get some legal spray weapon for self defense. If you're not trained with a knife, you're not going to walk away from a fight with a knife involved, even if it's just your own, without damage. And even *if* you're trained (and no, watching a YT video isn't the same), there's a good chance of getting stabbed.
But spray weapons are for women etc etc so they don't want that shit. Good luck getting your ass stabbed, morons, just don't involve me.
Mind you I used to carry a knife too but for purely practical reasons, in a pocket in my day bag so even if I got into a fight I wouldn't be tempted to go for it.
Yeah anyone who knocks good OC has never been to a course lol. Its borderline completely debilitating *when they hit you eyebrow level and allow you to keep your eyes closed.*
Like yeah you can kinda fight through it and some are “immune”. But the “immune” population is hilariously small. Fighting through it requires a LOT of familiarity or tweaking out on stimulants hard.
For…..reasons…..that I don’t like, I’ve been sprayed for certs around 5 times (Navy used to require recert every year. Then I went civilian Navy security then another job that required it….*sigh*). I’ve seen maybe one petite little asian sailor that it didn’t seem to be bothered at all. I dreaded the 2nd time , felt pretty good during the 4th and got cocky on the 5th and it hit me like a ton of bricks again. Though that was with a cert involving every other agent, CS, CX, pepper ball etc before the OC so….
Oleoresin capsicum spray, I believe he means. Pepper spray, in common terms.
I was on gate guard for the Army for a little bit and we had to do a little OC course to carry it. Like you said, *just awful* when it hits. (Being out in the sun for an hour beforehand probably didn't help any)
Put me back in the CS chamber, but please don't require me to get sprayed again 😅
In China, where knife and machete attacks are more common, many shops have mancatchers or sasumata poles in the backroom.
They are just long poles with a half circle shape on the end. When the shit goes down, a bunch of shop keepers grab the poles and push the knife attacker away. When there are enough poles, the the semi-circle shape of multiple poles can pin them against the wall until the police come.
Obviously doesn't work for one-on-one combat and if you don't have a mancatcher, but interesting how societies prepare for the problems they specifically face.
From now on I shall carry a concealed mancatcher
Oh my God this is so low tech but I love it!
The traditional version of those is a spear. Martial combat was a very solved problem - long pointy thing in numbers beat short pointy things. They've just removed the pointy.
Someone in another thread mentioned how this is a superior tool for stopping one attacker because each additional mancatcher effectively halves the force required to control that attacker.
>mancatchers or sasumata poles
Honestly, I would really like to see the US police start to use these devices.
Obviously not good for all applications, but for a guy without a gun, a few cops who each have one of these, can be *highly* effective-- I've seen some great examples.
The Hook-Rats in Warhammer Vermintide do this as well.
"Surviving Edged Weapons" anyone?
Best version right here boss
Is this real?
I love the baseball cap with razor blades on the back. Like yeah have they ever actually seen that?
[I'm guessing this is from the same series](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js0haocH4-o) where you can see why 7 yards is the typical range where you can claim self-defense shooting an aggressor with a knife.
I always watch out for mexican sacatripes
And while you're busy watching the sacatripe at his hip, little did you notice the six razor blades attached to the back of Ernesto's baseball cap.
*Truly* the Best of the Worst
General rule of thumb is "run from knife, rush a gun".
And if you feel the need to engage...like he's stabbing up a bar or some shit, stand back and throw shit. He already has a knife out and in real life you don't get honor points. "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck". Hit that motherfucker with a coupla bar stools.
This is why I have bayonets attached to all my guns, now I'm invincible.
What about a gun that shoots knives?
This reminds me of when [4chan designed guns.](
My favorite is the simple knife with a scope.
That last picture... LOL!
The last one is modeled in the VR game Hotdogs Horseshoes and Handgrenades. [wiki article](https://h3vr.fandom.com/wiki/Whizzbanger)
The *loss* was a nice surprise
You may think it's image 34 that will end the world but really, it'll be sniper mallet
I can't decide if my favorite is the knife with a silencer or the halberd with a scope.
What about a gun that shoots tiny guns with bayonets?
>General rule of thumb is "run from knife, rush a gun".
Now you got me wanting to watch [the Irishman](https://youtu.be/MGtQrrNYB9o) again.
Also, avoid car-bombs
Rush a gun? Genuine question, how does that help? Are you supposed to zig zag or something?
> You're not gonna run across an open field 100 yards at someone with a gun.
Ah you see though, they had swords.
The idea is that you rush to gain control of the muzzle and can then influence the direction of the shot (especially a handgun with a slide - if you grab the slide during the first shot, it will typically malfunction in the form of a "failure to eject" or a "failure to feed" meaning you just have to avoid the first shot). But the drawback to this is if you miss or lose control of the muzzle, you're dead. And while the angles are better if you're going up against a rifle (longer barrel, easier to get control over since its larger, etc) most rifles' firing mechanisms will allow for repeated shots until the mag is empty even during a tussle. So...in all. Just fucking run and try and find cover. Once you find cover, assess the situation and look for possible exits and go. Don't sit still (unless you are safe). You have to keep moving and get out of the killzone. This applies for somethjng as "simple" as a active shooter situation as it applies to managing a firefight via gun trucks. Push through (get out of) the kill zone first and (dis)engage from a safer location. So you can see how it is almost universal to escape first and then assess if engagement is required. The only time this isn't really the case is team/squad level tactics where it is taught to engage with the enemy while you seek safer positions (I.e. shoot back as you retreat or engage to close in for the kill - different situations dictate different tactics upon receiving fire).
There is no such thing as a fair fight. The moment an argument becomes a fight, fairness has left the building, and all tactics are a go. Every real fight has a significant risk of death so treat every fight like they are trying to kill you.
Always try to avoid and/or deescalate. Make them the clear aggressor.
This is a better tactic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvlrnc7hlQI
My old sensei on knife fights: fucking run. The man used to train navy seals. You know what he told them about knife fights? Fucking run.
The only time you ever fight is if they’re already attacking you or they’re trying to kidnap you. That’s it. And you don’t fight to win. You fight to get away to a location where other people are. Yell he has a knife. Yell at specific people “guy in blue, call the cops.” “Guy in white, hide me.” Directly involve bystanders or they won’t do shit.
But mostly, fucking run.
Retired criminal investigator. Joe Sixpack vastly underestimates the danger of edged weapons. I’ve seen lots of knife wounds ranging from superficial to fatal. But I’ve only ever been involved in one machete attack investigation. Jeezus, the damage one can wreak on a human body is horrific.
Smallish, but kinda crazy, dude was walking down a dark alley, minding his own business. But he had a machete under his coat. A couple of neighborhood tough guys decided to bully and assault the guy. Both were killed. One of them had his left shoulder and arm almost completely severed from his body with one stroke. The other one was carved up grotesquely as well. Never mess with someone armed with a machete.
I'd like to add to your great info.
Had some training in swords. Learned that in European martial arts, with swords for slashing attacks you'd aim for the ear, or the knee, with the angle being towards the opposite knee/ear. Goal being that its the longest line you can draw across the human body.
And that in a proper power stroke on particularly at least hand-and-a-half sword, it was figured by the instructor that you'd probably be able to accomplish that stroke.
Bladed weapons are no joke.
Sometimes [the best defense is a good offense](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM45bTN4Vnc)
American military also trains a similar technique, but a little different: https://youtu.be/kvlrnc7hlQI
>Special Forces Navy SEAL Ranger
DAMN, you better treat this guy's advice as gospel!
Special Forces Navy SEAL Ranger in a Marine uniform. He must have killed a Marine for concealment
Poisoned his crayons and took the uniform off the body
Same give from Napoleon Dynamite, different pants, same guy.
This made me laugh so loud. Oh man...
Sometimes the best defense is to not make enemies.
Here’s another good example of how disturbingly violent knife attacks are
That's much more the reality. Frenzied, blitz attack. Scary as all hell.
I find it funny that the video cuts as he’s asking for the guy to hand him a real knife, like the demonstration was about to take a turn he didn’t want the cameras seeing.
And taking the humorous side of something so visceral, with the preface that there are no real consequences it was kind of funny seeing a bunch of random people go absolutely mental on each other.
The best self defense in a street confrontation is the sprint (and good conditioning). Can't get stabbed if the aggressor never reaches you.
I saw a documentary where a man from a remote wilderness came to a big city and he was attacked by a street thug with a switch blade. He demonstrated the greatest knife defense I've ever seen by pulling out a much larger knife and saying, "That's not a knife, this is a knife"
I used to do Taekwondo, we had a class from a guest instructor who went into knife attacks. Hands us all blunt knives, we get some instructions and start practicing.
My main takeway: knives are terrifying, no way I'm staying calm when someone pulls a knife on me. The best defense? Run.
The best knife class I've taken -> the instructor grabbed a high-ranking student to assist in demonstrating techniques, but would occasionally do a stab out of nowhere (at his assistant). By the end of class, the assistant refused to stand within 10 feet of him, which was the entire point he was trying to get across.
Yeah, knives are crazy. I was practicing with a guy who I had known and trained with for about 7 years, so absolute trust. Despite that, him putting a blunt knife to my throat was still so nerve wracking.
Stabbed twice at the top of my left arm and I wasn't even aware the attacker had stabbed me before stepping back from the blows, and looking at my shirt turn red.
If it wasn't for the knife user looking as shocked or startled by the act as I was, I wouldn't have been able to wrestle his knife hand.
After pushing his had back at him and into his stomach, I ran Like the wind and ended up catching my breath at a bus stop down the hill from where I has been stabbed.
An old lady at the bus stop told me I was bleeding and then I feinted and woke up with an ambulance crew around me.
I've trained in various martial arts and MMA throughout my life and if I could go back in time I'd offer my younger self and anyone reading the exact same advice.
Avoid confrontations that can be avoided and if (unlike I was) you're aware there is a knife, just run. Even if you find a weapon whilst running, just keep running.
No amount of training will save you from a knife attack if the knife user is enraged with every intent on using it (even if you both have knives you're probably both going to get stabbed or slashed).
I was humbled that day and it taught me to attempt to defuse situations even if my every being tells me I can beat the opponent. You never know who's carrying.
Stay safe folks.
8 year military veteran with combat deployments. Was snuck by someone wielding a 7” kitchen knife. Before I knew what was happening the knife got me in the neck twice, severing my jugular. At that point all I could do was put my arm up to try to fend off the next attacks, and took 7 to my forearm. The ONLY thing that saved me was survival instincts kicking in and immediately pressing my other hand against my neck as I tried to escape.
Knife attacks are terrifying. Anyone who tells you otherwise is full of shit or has a death wish.
I'm glad you survived such a horrendous attack. I got off lightly in comparison. Amen to your last line.
Goddamn dude, that sounds brutal. I'm glad you made it!
Very barely, but thank you
She's the equivalent of Wile E. Coyote looking down.
That's because he feinted at the old woman instead of attacking her. Missed opportunity.
I was going into shock at the time and she did hit the nail on the head, lol.
I didn't used to be able to handle the sight of blood in those days and I'm surprised I even made it to the bus stop before feinting.
Fight failed so flight took over thankfully.
Knives occupy a strange niche, where they are absolutely terrifyingly effective offensive weapons, and really shitty defensive weapons.
Swords? Guns? Effective on the attack, effective on defense. Knives are a one way street though. Shit, somebody gets within 20 feet of you with a knife, even your gun isn't likely to save you, unless you're already aiming at them.
Defensively though? Yeah, you're fucked with a knife. The loser of a knife fight dies on the spot, the winner dies in the ambulance.
I had a friend recently who was telling me they were taking self defense classes in LA and said that their instructor encouraged them to get a knife for self defense. I'm not an expert by any means, but feel it's a terrible idea. Nothing worse than someone threatening you and you're scared and pull out a sharp, but now trembling knife. Unless you've been trained how to use it or feel content in the sense that you may actually kill the person you should never be using a knife for self defense. Doubly so if you feel the attacker may take it from it and use it against you. I told my friend to sell the knife and buy some bear mace, at least that will give you some distance because your best bet is running away.
Unless your plan is to go HAM on your assailant the way that instructor did, a knife for defense is usually a very bad idea. And if you do decide to do that, well, I wouldn't want to be trying to convince a judge and jury that I feared for my life, and my only option was to stab the person 37 times.
The problem with a knife as a defence weapon is that the person who has it only intends to use it in defence. But if you're in a situation where you feel the knife is warranted, you will have to immediately use it (offensively) to avoid giving the other person the chance to realize you have a knife.
So, you don't want to use the knife to hurt anyone but that's the only mindset that allows you to use it properly.
Knives are usually considered last-ditch/you've run out of everything else weapons when it comes to defense - hopefully your attacker knows the adage about dying in the street vs. dying in the ambulance, and will cease attacking you.
Or the worse scenario: they pull a knife out too and now you're in a knife fight to the death
Knives are just generally useful in every day life and in most emergencies. Get into a car accident and a knife can cut seatbelts, make bandages etc. Can use the butt of the knife to get through your windshield if needed. Every once in a while someone will ask “hey anyone got a knife” to cut tags off of things or whatever. Not to mention camping, eating and general survival. Not many people carry them but a good knife can save your life.
Wait till you see the type of wounds you get from a hard slash. Its nothing like an accidental cut of the skin in your kitchen. It goes through muscle and tears off pieces of it before hitting bone. Even if you don't feel the pain right away, your arm just stops working because the muscle and nerves are ripped to shreds, you say.
I can't scroll past this without applauding the Futurama reference
i found this video years and years ago and i show it to people all the time. people think i'm crazy when i say i'd rather deal with someone with a gun than someone with a knife. if someone with a knife is within 21 feet of you and you're armed, but not drawn, you're absolutely fucked.
This is where even well meaning gun people tend to fuck up with their training. Yeah, it's great that you can put all your shots in one jagged hole in your booth at the gun range, but if you're dealing with the shit in that video, the number 1 skill you need is to be able to get the gun out as fast as you possibly can (Edit: Preferably with one hand).
Am a cop, this is referenced a lot at trainings, when we put it to the test on the range we had two guys back-to-back, a buzzer went off, one guy ran, the other shot. the guy running made it average 30 feet before the shot got on target
How long before people stopped volunteering to be the runner?
The runner wasn’t shot at. Was running opposite direction of the line of fire. They started back to back.
Saw on reddit how in China they have this [sticks](https://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/embed/public/2014/03/03/china-riot-fork.jpg) in stores and restaurants that help a lot in case of knife attacks. That's probably the best defense you can have.
Seems like a downgraded [man-catcher](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_catcher).
Late reply but I was actually a victim in a knife attack a few weeks ago. We were walking to a bar and some guys started to get aggressive and words were said that ended up into a group fight. In the middle of brawling against Two guys I look up and see Two of my friends with multiple stab wounds. I spot the knife wielder currently stabbing another friend, and without thinking I just push him off of my friend as hard as I could. The group of guys ran away immediately. It wasn’t until they were gone that I felt a warm and wet feeling in my back and I had gotten stabbed as well. Didn’t even feel it in the moment. I’ll always remember how fast the wielder was hitting my friend. It was surreal. Thankfully i drove all my friends to the hospital in time all while we were all bleeding out, and we Were treated in time and we’re all better now. But their was nothing I could do against knife guy but push him away. It’s crazy how powerless one can be in a situation like that
For more info: [Surviving Edged Weapons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4ZpyKSmgdE)
Best keep that pocket sand handy. (Realistically though, blinding someone is a huge advantage. Blind and bounce)
If you're not within grappling distance and you know for a fact you can run faster than the attacker, maybe, but the video was about people with a knife that are already very near you. At that point blinding them could easily get you stabbed.
Something I hardly ever see mentioned in these videos is this: Your body will automatically move away from sources of pain. That's why you can easily throw people, that's why twisting someone's arm -always- brings an opponent into the same position. There's no sensible method to overcome this. So whatever your plan was, as soon as you get stabbed, you're not gonna employ a maneuver, you're gonna move away from the knife in your body, and by the time it's out, it'll come at you again.